Who do we like for Governor?

[RustTown]

Why is auto manufacturing not something we should also be courting? We need to diversify; no one is arguing with that, but there is still room in this state for auto manufacturing, and we are the beneficiaries of these Japanese outsources. We certainly don't need to further stake our economy on more autoplants, but the say we don't need them seems equally an extreme. If Honda wanted to put a plant, here, I definitely wouldn't be discouraging them. lol Michigan has a great manufacturing infastructure, and it will always attract those kind of jobs, if even to a lesser extent. But to try to totally disconnect ourself from our pass just seems completely ridiculous.

Michigan needs to diversify. Michigan also needs any jobs it can attract. The two never were, aren't, nor will they ever be mutually exclusive.

[AlexPKeaton]

Every industry is fleeting if you take a long-term view. Some are necessities, sure, but even that doesn't guarantee a healthy profit year after year.

As for oil companies, I don't care if they reinvest their money or put it in a mattress. The free market must do it's job. Capping oil companies' profits or otherwise artificially driving down the cost of oil just keeps us dependent on oil. As oil becomes more scarce, or demand for it increases, prices must rise! At sufficiently high prices alternatives to oil become relatively cheaper.

I'd bet public support for expanded mass-transit in Grand Rapids--and most every other city in the country for that matter--is probably at an all-time high right now. We should get building now to take advantage of any political will that's been created as a result of high prices!

-nb

[GRDadof3]

Why is auto manufacturing not something we should also be courting? We need to diversify; no one is arguing with that, but there is still room in this state for auto manufacturing, and we are the beneficiaries of these Japanese outsources. We certainly don't need to further stake our economy on more autoplants, but the say we don't need them seems equally an extreme. If Honda wanted to put a plant, here, I definitely wouldn't be discouraging them. lol Michigan has a great manufacturing infastructure, and it will always attract those kind of jobs, if even to a lesser extent. But to try to totally disconnect ourself from our pass just seems completely ridiculous.

Michigan needs to diversify. Michigan also needs any jobs it can attract. The two never were, aren't, nor will they ever be mutually exclusive.

I'm not saying if Honda wanted to put a plant here to discourage them, but let's not also give away $30 Million in tax incentives to get them here, which is precisely what you'd have to do. The writing is on the wall. Even Honda and Toyota will be struggling against the Chinese and Korean automakers in the next 10 years. Obviously Americans have shown that they'll forego quality for the rock-bottom price 9 times out of 10 (Walmart anyone??). Hyundai and Kia are the fastest growing car sellers in the U.S. Just wait until China steps into the picture with high mpg/low cost automobiles, especially as gas prices only get higher (don't hold your breathe for $2.50/gallon again).

I predict in the next decade Southern States (and Indiana and Ohio) are going to be kicking themselves for getting into bed with automakers. No, not kicking themselves, but yelling at congress to set up all kinds of trade barriers to protect themselves from the inevitable fall. They actually (laughingly) think they have mastered an industry where Michigan couldn't. Believe me, if anyone could have made the automotive industry work profitably, Michigan would have. We have more automotive technology, more quality systems, more automation, more worker productivity, and more engineering know-how than anywhere else in the world. And yet, the Big 3 struggle. What does that tell you?? (and it's not unions/labor costs). Give it up! Let it go!

I wish there were a way to tag this to come up ten years from now so that I could say "I told you so", but alas, UrbanPlanet will probably not be around.

Gas prices: I don't agree with putting caps on gas prices, but let's not also shower them with too much praise for the measly environmental efforts they have made. $7 Billion in profits in one quarter for BP is the most of any corporation in the history of modern civilization (I believe).

[RustTown]

I'm not saying if Honda wanted to put a plant here to discourage them, but let's not also give away $30 Million in tax incentives to get them here, which is precisely what you'd have to do. The writing is on the wall. Even Honda and Toyota will be struggling against the Chinese and Korean automakers in the next 10 years. Obviously Americans have shown that they'll forego quality for the rock-bottom price 9 times out of 10 (Walmart anyone??). Hyundai and Kia are the fastest growing car sellers in the U.S. Just wait until China steps into the picture with high mpg/low cost automobiles, especially as gas prices only get higher (don't hold your breathe for $2.50/gallon again).

I predict in the next decade Southern States (and Indiana and Ohio) are going to be kicking themselves for getting into bed with automakers. No, not kicking themselves, but yelling at congress to set up all kinds of trade barriers to protect themselves from the inevitable fall. They actually (laughingly) think they have mastered an industry where Michigan couldn't. Believe me, if anyone could have made the automotive industry work profitably, Michigan would have. We have more automotive technology, more quality systems, more automation, more worker productivity, and more engineering know-how than anywhere else in the world. And yet, the Big 3 struggle. What does that tell you?? (and it's not unions/labor costs). Give it up! Let it go!

I wish there were a way to tag this to come up ten years from now so that I could say "I told you so", but alas, UrbanPlanet will probably not be around.

Gas prices: I don't agree with putting caps on gas prices, but let's not also shower them with too much praise for the measly environmental efforts they have made. $7 Billion in profits in one quarter for BP is the most of any corporation in the history of modern civilization (I believe).

I'm completely baffled by the "Let it go!" You think the automotive industry is the only one with flaws? Again, the automotive industry can, and should be, part of an economy. I can definitely agree that we need to stop subsidizing them so heavily, but if we'd just "let go" of every industry we have to subsidize, we'd have few left. Again, Michigan needs to put much less emphasis on the auto industry, and it's been doing that by simple necessity and choice, but to say we don't need them is just crazy. We need any industry that is willing to invest in the state, but we must have them more on our own terms, as opposed to us being beholden to them. We had found, at one time, that medium, and it can be found again. You seem to be implying that it is the worst of any industry, despite MOST manufacturing being a fickle thing.

Seriously, why such incredible aversion to the auto industry? It's just like most other manufacturing industries (i.e. furniture, home appliances...)

[MJLO]

The problems of the American Auto industry should be minimal right now. The leadership of the big 3 is arguably the best in history. The problems they are dealing with are 50 years in the making. It was GM's leadership in the 60's and 70's who's short sighted vision thought that they would always be the most powerful corporate entity on earth. Back then they could not have imagined there ever being something known as legitamate foreign competition. Back then they should have been trying to stay ahead of the curve. Instead now they are scrambling to catch up.

Jeff I disagree with you about the Japanese automakers struggling amidst the competition of the Chinese and Korean. They have always been innovative and ahead of the curve. Add to that the fact that they don't carry the gigantic legacy costs of the American Auto Makers and probabally never will. They are in a much much better position. I think that Michigans economy will in part always be dependent on the Automotive industry. Though now it's moved to the tech side of it. When the unions strangle hold starts to go away, and Michigan's wage market becomes competitive again. I think you'll see the manufacturing base stablelize somewhat as well. But I don't want to sit around and wait for that to happen. Diversification of economy is only a good thing.

Lmich I think what GRdad is trying to say, is that We can't always rely on the automotive industry, and in the past Michigan has been undeniably beholden to it. As time change so does the economy and technology. At somepoint in future history Automobiles will become obsolete anyway. Where would Michigan be if it were still only producing automobiles while the rest of the world was not driving them. Not to mention that the Automobiles produced in Michigan now, the world is already driving less and less.

[RustTown]

I know we can't rely on the automotive industry, at least not like we used to. And, we aren't, more out of being forced to than by choice. And, the economy is diversifying a good clip, but that's overshadowed by all of the bad news coming from the automobile industry. My only point is that we shouldn't be turning down anyone that ones to invest in the state. I really think I'm taking a moderate position, here. There seems to be this misconception that the Michigan economy isn't diversifying or fast enough. Fact is, the auto industry gets all of the news for its continued downsizing (something it's been doing for DECADES), but no one talks about the booming healthcare industries in almost every Michigan city, or the advances in bio-tech, or that Michigan ranks 4th in the nation in high-tech employment, or that Michigan ranks 3rd in overall research & development investment expenditures in the U.S...and so on. I seriously believe that we've began to simply thrive on negativity.

BTW, what do you mean the world is driving less? As China and India are coming on line with their billions and billions of residents, not to mention much of Africa, the world is mostly likely driving more than it ever has before.

[MJLO]

I mean, the world is driving American Automobiles less and less. Not to many africans can afford a Taurus! (it's a joke don't get all in a huff).

But you may have a point about the focus on negativity. It's true that Michigans economy is going thru an inevitable transition. But isn't almost all of the R&D, and Tech that goes on in Michigan automotive related?

[RustTown]

Thanks for clarifying. Yes, a lot of the tech jobs are auto-related, but the alot of the R & D is bio-tech related.

[GRDadof3]

Jeff I disagree with you about the Japanese automakers struggling amidst the competition of the Chinese and Korean. They have always been innovative and ahead of the curve. Add to that the fact that they don't carry the gigantic legacy costs of the American Auto Makers and probabally never will. They are in a much much better position. I think that Michigans economy will in part always be dependent on the Automotive industry. Though now it's moved to the tech side of it. When the unions strangle hold starts to go away, and Michigan's wage market becomes competitive again. I think you'll see the manufacturing base stablelize somewhat as well. But I don't want to sit around and wait for that to happen. Diversification of economy is only a good thing.

Lmich I think what GRdad is trying to say, is that We can't always rely on the automotive industry, and in the past Michigan has been undeniably beholden to it. As time change so does the economy and technology. At somepoint in future history Automobiles will become obsolete anyway. Where would Michigan be if it were still only producing automobiles while the rest of the world was not driving them. Not to mention that the Automobiles produced in Michigan now, the world is already driving less and less.

Matt, that is incorrect. The Japanese have not ALWAYS been innovative and ahead of the curve. It is pretty much a product of the last 20 years or so where they have made great strides. There was a time anything made in Japan was complete junk. But don't discount the Chinese and Korean auto makers, where much of the resources that go into the production of the cars are heavily State run (especially steel), so that they can keep prices at an artificially low price.

I'm not saying that we should kick the automotive industry out, I was just referring to another posters comments that the loss of Honda to Indiana was such a travesty. I don't think it was.

[MJLO]

I agree on that. I also think the leadership of Michigan should do more to attract the new industries of a different economy. As I recall, Granholm is doing her best to keep the old manufacturing jobs in the state, while she raised taxes in industries like banking and insurance. That to me doesn't seem very future oriented.

[Allison Slater]

Actually, innovation has always been a defining aspect of Japanese culture, even back into ancient times. Almost all that is Japanese is ideas borrowed from others and improved. I'll agree that in the global sense they have not been ahead of the curve, mostly due to the isolationism about 100 years ago, and it took them a while to catch back up. But, culturally speaking, they have always been this way.

[GRDadof3]

I agree on that. I also think the leadership of Michigan should do more to attract the new industries of a different economy. As I recall, Granholm is doing her best to keep the old manufacturing jobs in the state, while she raised taxes in industries like banking and insurance. That to me doesn't seem very future oriented.

She talked about adding a tax on services, but it was so vague that it would have added taxes to just about every industry other than manufacturing (even taxes on having your taxes done). The idea was quickly abandoned.

[snoogit]

I agree on that. I also think the leadership of Michigan should do more to attract the new industries of a different economy. As I recall, Granholm is doing her best to keep the old manufacturing jobs in the state, while she raised taxes in industries like banking and insurance. That to me doesn't seem very future oriented.

Granholm has also done a lot to encourage more investment into the state from other industries as well, but shes going to also try and keep as many jobs here as she can, and thats part of her job as well.

[RustTown]

IMO, Granholm has done (or tried to do) more in her short time to diversify the economy than any governor before her, Blanchard and Engler in their long reigns included. I also have a hard time with this "doom and gloom" painting of the economy and the labeling of G-holms as a "do nothing governor" considering unemployment back in the 80's and part of the 1990's was horrible for most parts of the state, as those decades saw an even greater exodus in jobs than this decade has so far. Granholm has easily surpasses her predecessors in terms of economy diversification. I think Granholm can be attacked for many things. Economy diversification, however, is not one of those that she could be legitimately attacked for. One could, however, make a legitimate argument that DeVos would be better at economy diversification. I've still yet to be convinced, though. IMO, if any Republican in this state could do it, it would be L. Brooks Patterson, Oakland County's executive, with his proven record (as much as I hate the rest of his politics).

[snoogit]

One could, however, make a legitimate argument that DeVos would be better at economy diversification. I've still yet to be convinced, though.

I really cant see how, since Amway really isnt that diverse of a company.

Beyond latching onto a few brands here and there, they still more or less are a smaller MLM version of Johnson & Johnson.

[RustTown]

DeVos, despite popular belief, is not just Amway. Again, I think an argument can be made that DeVos business credentials do count for something, and something positive. I just haven't seen how they count, and I've yet to be convinced. Unlike most of DeVos supporters, though, I don't think him being part of a huge business automatically qualifies him for governor and disqualifies Granholm for re-election. That's just ridiculous. IMO, this race is base on who's style you like better, as many of Michigan's problems are beyond the reach of the governors office.

[michaelskis]

Well, with DeVos

[RustTown]

I think it will definitely help him, though, I think you're probably way overblowing the importance of the pick. This race is a race for Independents and undecideds of either party, and I'm not so sure that they are going to think "gee, what a great choice for Lieutenant governor. I'm going to vote for DeVos because of that." It may definitely be a factor, but the pick is just one of many factors, IMO.

[partyoffour]

I really can't see him living in the Governor's Mansion...I believe that would be termed slummin it.

[michaelskis]

I really can't see him living in the Governor's Mansion...I believe that would be termed slummin it.

Welcome to Urban Planet.

I think that he will use it as an office much like Bloomberg in New York City.

[Yankee Fan]

I am not sure how much that this would make a true difference in the overall picture, but I had employees of mine in the office yesterday who work in the Ann Arbor area. They told me that they were absolutely blown away by the number of buildings that have a DeVos or VanAndel related names on them in Grand Rapids. They went and did a little more investigating on line to see the extent to which these gifts were provided and the overall diversity of the gifts; they were completely impressed by what they found. The seven of them came to the consensus that if his family is willing to invest their own money back into this community then he would be a a big help in getting others to do the same, whether through business or personal. Seven democrats actually stood in my office yesterday and told me that they had changed their minds purely because the saw how these families give back and that they were going to vote for DeVos. They do not like Bush, they do not like big business, and are in no way to be mistaken as independents or swing voters. The actual words of one of them: "I have been swung over and I don't like to have to admit it."

Wow. Not sure what to do with that...

[Veloise]

I am not sure how much that this would make a true difference in the overall picture, but I had employees of mine in the office yesterday who work in the Ann Arbor area. They told me that they were absolutely blown away by the number of buildings that have a DeVos or VanAndel related names on them in Grand Rapids. They went and did a little more investigating on line to see the extent to which these gifts were provided and the overall diversity of the gifts; they were completely impressed by what they found. The seven of them came to the consensus that if his family is willing to invest their own money back into this community then he would be a a big help in getting others to do the same, whether through business or personal. Seven democrats actually stood in my office yesterday and told me that they had changed their minds purely because the saw how these families give back and that they were going to vote for DeVos. They do not like Bush, they do not like big business, and are in no way to be mistaken as independents or swing voters. The actual words of one of them: "I have been swung over and I don't like to have to admit it."

Wow. Not sure what to do with that...

Read them my post #274.

Most of those gifts are from Dad, not the candidate. AFAIK the middle-aged generation hasn't done much in terms of philanthropy (excluding conservative and GOP causes).

[snoogit]

Read them my post #274.

Most of those gifts are from Dad, not the candidate. AFAIK the middle-aged generation hasn't done much in terms of philanthropy (excluding conservative and GOP causes).

It doesn't help that one is Rick, and the other is Dick.

( I didn't add the "a"!)

[RustTown]

Just an update for those, like myself, that follow polls.

The most recent EPIC/MRA poll released today, and taken between August 9-14 show Granholm still with the lead, but within the margin of error:

Granholm: 50%

DeVos: 47%

More notes:

- "In a June 13 poll, only 40 percent approved of her job as governor. In the latest survey, 51 percent give her passing grades for the job she's doing."

- "The governor's personal favorability rating was at 58 percent in this poll, 6 percentage points higher than in June. DeVos is at 51 percent favorability, up from 45 percent in mid-June. For a candidate who was virtually unknown when the year started, an approval rating over 50 percent is no small accomplishment."

- The survey shows Granholm gaining support among women, who favor her by 53 percent to 42. Among men, DeVos leads 53-46. The incumbent is ahead in Metro Detroit, 53-43, but DeVos holds a 50-48 edge in the rest of the state. The poll of 600 likely voters has a margin of error of plus or minus 4 percentage points.

Source: http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...ICS01/608160399

[michaelskis]

Just an update for those, like myself, that follow polls.

The most recent EPIC/MRA poll released today, and taken between August 9-14 show Granholm still with the lead, but within the margin of error:

Granholm: 50%

DeVos: 47%

For an incumbent, it should be a lot more than that!

We need a change, and DeVos is the one to bring it to Michigan! I would be very disappointed if Jenny from Canada was reelected.