Massive Riverfront Project

[d59]

I'm going to be happy with the construction of the hotel, art museum, medical hill and Riverhouse. If this multi-billion project happens, it will be icing on the cake. If it doesn't happen (which is very likely), we need to remember that Grand Rapids is not a "big player" and we need to be happy with the progress that we ARE making. Let's face it, if this project has to be this secret to survive, it's on shaky ground.

[localtalent]

Let's face it, if this project has to be this secret to survive, it's on shaky ground.

I have no idea how you come to this conclusion. Could you elaborate?

[d59]

I have no idea how you come to this conclusion. Could you elaborate?

It just seems to me that if there is REAL MONEY and real desire, this thing would be a go. For example, anything DeVos, VanAndel or Meijer want to build, they do it! They may have to do battle to get the job done, but they do it. When the money and desire is already there, it just gets done. Riverhouse, the museum, Icon on Bond are examples of projects that have money issues. They are all moving very slowly and the museum and Icon have been scaled down. What is an outsider to conclude? This is just my opinion, ofcourse, but look at the names on any of the new structures downtown and that is where I draw my conclusions.

I really want this billion $ project to go! It just seems to me there are already too many factors in place that will make it much less than all that has been proposed.

[tringr]

I believe that D59 has something of a point. The real question is, "What are the options to buy that people have mentioned here?" Would you sign a confidentiality agreement without already having an agreed upon price range? Something doesn't smell right. I wouldn't sign a confidentiality agreement without knowing I was going to be part of the deal. I would make sure that if the deal went through, then I would get the money I want. I don't understand how someone could hold out. Unless the investors had a big range they said they could offer and had no intention of going towards the top of the range. Now it sounds like they are trying to play the 800lb. gorilla and shame the holdouts into taking a more "reasonable" amount within the range. Sloppy contracts written up a year ago? Any thoughts on how this works?

[localtalent]

I believe that D59 has something of a point. The real question is, "What are the options to buy that people have mentioned here?" Would you sign a confidentiality agreement without already having an agreed upon price range? Something doesn't smell right. I wouldn't sign a confidentiality agreement without knowing I was going to be part of the deal. I would make sure that if the deal went through, then I would get the money I want. I don't understand how someone could hold out. Unless the investors had a big range they said they could offer and had no intention of going towards the top of the range. Now it sounds like they are trying to play the 800lb. gorilla and shame the holdouts into taking a more "reasonable" amount within the range. Sloppy contracts written up a year ago? Any thoughts on how this works?

Despite recent press reports to the contrary, this project will not be derailed at this point by private landowners "holding out".

The information that is out now should have been out 12 months ago. In fact, it's a miracle it didn't get out earlier.

But really....for all the attention, there's not a whole lot of solid information available.

You think all the people involved (brokers, landowners, lawyers, architects, state and local officials) would be keeping their mouths shut under a legal threat?

Or is it more likely that these people are keeping their mouths shut because they have a clear and significant economic advantage in following the developer's rules?

I know what I think is most likely.

[mejane]

You think all the people involved (brokers, landowners, lawyers, architects, state and local officials) would be keeping their mouths shut under a legal threat?

Or is it more likely that these people are keeping their mouths shut because they have a clear and significant economic advantage in following the developer's rules?

As in...12 months is a long time to keep quiet, considering there may not be any

legal threat, but is a significant time to take advantage of personal investing in

the areas that are most likely to be positively affected? A little like 'insider trading'

without the consequences?

Are we going to be that cynical about this whole thing?

Or are we being naive NOT to think it?

[joeDowntown]

I think you may be missing the point. If the project *IS* this significant, then you *HAVE* to keep it secret when you are talking this many parcels. If everybody jacks up the price of their property 1000%, everybody loses. I hope all of the stakeholders (including property owners) understand this.

I'm going to be happy with the construction of the hotel, art museum, medical hill and Riverhouse. If this multi-billion project happens, it will be icing on the cake. If it doesn't happen (which is very likely), we need to remember that Grand Rapids is not a "big player" and we need to be happy with the progress that we ARE making. Let's face it, if this project has to be this secret to survive, it's on shaky ground.

[jrwquattro]

The interview with Shurlow and WOOD TV is timed again as was the report last week Friday and this past Tuesday. I can imagine that we should see Deb on TV on Tuesday again with a little more info. I'm guessing a Press Conference for next Friday with the full announcement.

We should start a grid on this. One axis is day of announcement and the other is type of project. I'll stick with March 10th and mixed use development built around a Bio-technology research anchor (Synthetic Genomics).

Who are the holdouts anyway? Custer and the Intersection? Can the city even be under contract yet without a proposal that has gone in front of the city council??? My guess is last night's update on WOOD TV was designed to put some local pressure on the remaining holdouts. Nobody down in that area has any property that should be consider too irreplacable to stand in the way of 10,000 jobs.

[GRDadof3]

Geha asked if they could "cut around" the property holdouts, but Shurlow said the holdouts were too "centrally located" to do that.

[Phizzy]

My guess is last night's update on WOOD TV was designed to put some local pressure on the remaining holdouts. Nobody down in that area has any property that should be consider too irreplacable to stand in the way of 10,000 jobs.

I was thinking the same thing. Despite some recent pessimism in the forums here, my gut tells me this project is coming to Grand Rapids.

[Kib]

My guess is last night's update on WOOD TV was designed to put some local pressure on the remaining holdouts.

Ya' think?

Nobody down in that area has any property that should be consider too irreplacable to stand in the way of 10,000 jobs.

If in fact there were 10,000 jobs to be stood in the way of.

I'm just spit ballin' here (which is the whole point of this thread) but I'd say there was a pretty interesting phone call made from Grubb & Ellis HQ to the Grand Rapids office made last week along the lines of spinning this thing down a couple of hundred notches. I have no doubt they are stunned at the play this project is getting right here on UrbanPlanet and elsewhere, and none too tickled about the manner in which all this went public.

Now we're told GR is one of three cities under consideration and that "holdouts" may tank the deal. I love you guys and no one would be more pleased to see a major project contribute to downtown (which I have full faith will prosper in the future regardless of how this shakes out) but there's something hinky going on. Hope I'm wrong... I hope I'm wrong....

BTW - LOVED the business suit, Deb

[tringr]

Geha asked if they could "cut around" the property holdouts, but Shurlow said the holdouts were too "centrally located" to do that.

IF we are to believe most of what is being released, then this statement would lead us away from a simple mixed use plan. Unless it had a "theme" to it.

[Coleco]

The Press pokes fun at the hypocracy of issuing a press release for media to "Cease and Desist" doing their jobs in writing about the project then having Shurlow go on camera that same day to answer even more speculative questions.

http://www.mlive.com/news/grpress/index.ss...9930.xml&coll=6

Here's the complete text of the G&E release:

REQUEST FROM GRUBB & ELLIS{sodEmoji.{sodEmoji.|}}PARAMOUNT TO CEASE AND DESIST To All Grand Rapids Media GRAND RAPIDS, MI (Mar. 3, 2006)

[GRDadof3]

I have to disagree with the Press on this one. Shurlow was in the "control the message mode", not "adding to the speculation". As Kib said too, she looked much more professional and toned down this time.

[Rizzo]

Duly noted... Do we really want to tempt this any more? Especially when you have people asking more then what they deserve for their property.

I wonder if that lady will sell her lonely house and property?

[joeDowntown]

If that is the case I say we "cease and desist" speculating openly for a while and let this topic fall to page two.

Joe

[Kib]

Wow, other than feeling like The Amazing Kreskin at the moment...

I call BS on Grubb & Ellis wanting to put the Genie back in the bottle, (Even if they could) and preemptively putting it the GR Press (and frankly by association, UrbanPlanet) that if this thing tanks it's their/our fault.

Please don't take this as some ongoing flame on Shurlow, but I didn't see a gun held to her head when she did the giddy with excitment first interview on WOOD. I believe it was a simple case of a mid-level player attempting to getting themselves some props (deserved or not, at this point hard to say) and popping off before the deal was done.

I also think the GR Press has every right to use the FOIA card if there's any indication that the good people of Grand Rapids tax money is involved.

If the project goes through, everyone gets an "A", if not the blame lies with those who have been involved from the get-go, not "holdouts", newspapers, TV reporters, or us Internet geeks.

[tringr]

I also think the GR Press has every right to use the FOIA card if there's any indication that the good people of Grand Rapids tax money is involved.

If the project goes through, everyone gets an "A", if not the blame lies with those who have been involved from the get-go, not "holdouts", newspapers, TV reporters, or us Internet geeks.

I agree with KIB on the FOIA and blame aspects. In posts 1154 and 1155 LT and I ask questions that should be considered. WHat is an "option to buy" and how legally intricate is it. Don't blame me for sloppy contracts written last year, and sloppy control over information control.

[Rizzo]

That doesn't matter in the end... Slopy or not, if we created so much speculation that caused the people behind the developer to look to thoes other cities, then who's finger will be pointing? I speculate if something went "down" and the truth comesout about what we miss, everyone will look not to the developers with the billions but to the greedy property owners and thoes that "killed" the deal...

I don't know about you all, but I'm taking the proactive aproach... You know, doing it right by looking the other way.

[JDrew]

I don't know much about this subject and what it takes to get it done, but if these few property owners continue to hold out and possibly put this whole project in jeopardy, is there a chance that the government (city or state) could claim eminent domain over those properties and force the owners to sell? In my understanding eminent domain is claimed in cases where holdouts like this jeopardize a project by being unwilling to negotiate a price for the sale of their land. Is the potential of creating 10,000 jobs something that would be worth exercising this?

[Kib]

Kelo v. City of New London

CNN Story

[blueman459]

I hate to be a downer but I think Grubbs&Ellis is setting up the City of Grand Rapids for some bad news. It's funny that in the last two weeks they never mentioned the fact that there were two other cities being considered. On an earlier interview it was said the project was 85% a go. How can abillion dollar project go from being 85% a go to them scrapping the entire development over a few media reports. If you ask me I think that something has gone wrong internally and they are throwing these excuses out so they wont look bad. Just my .02

[tringr]

I don't know about you all, but I'm taking the proactive aproach... You know, doing it right by looking the other way.

Hilarious. I know what you mean. I also agree that people will blame the holdouts even if it isn't their fault.

Eminant Domain could be an interesting choice. Funny how the holdouts must have signed a confidentiality agreement where they can't discuss the particulars. That could come back and bite them.

Blueman, right now I think the developers are just playing hardball. Why not do this for a couple of weeks if it saves a million or two. Stripjoint owner said he as invested 2.5 million so far. I've seen the building and he got ripped off.

The only real trick to this deal is that some of the property is private, some public. Tricky to pull it all together.

[Rizzo]

Private property first, public last. They'll go after the public properties when the talking points are done and everyone has the gist on whats going down.

Don't worry, I seem to think there will be public outcry on thoes who "hold out" and screw it for the rest of us. I hardly doubt there's anyone that will stand in their way, especially with this supposed impact. You just have to know when you've been sized up...

[downhill-racer]

The Press pokes fun at the hypocracy of issuing a press release for media to "Cease and Desist" doing their jobs in writing about the project then having Shurlow go on camera that same day to answer even more speculative questions.

http://www.mlive.com/news/grpress/index.ss...9930.xml&coll=6

Here's the complete text of the G&E release:

REQUEST FROM GRUBB & ELLIS{sodEmoji.{sodEmoji.|}}PARAMOUNT TO CEASE AND DESIST To All Grand Rapids Media GRAND RAPIDS, MI (Mar. 3, 2006)