COMPLETED: Blue Back Square

[HartfordTycoon]

Windsor is booming. Even East Hartford is trending up.

Eddie Perez has been a huge plus for the suburbs.

Sad but true. Funny that it's the suburbanites that want him out of office even more than the city residents. You would think that would be reversed.

[drc72]

Windsor is booming. Even East Hartford is trending up.

Eddie Perez has been a huge plus for the suburbs.

New Haven, Stamford, and Bridgeport seem to have their priorities straight. Hartford?????? Just a beautiful skyline.

[Lowerdeck]

Sad but true. Funny that it's the suburbanites that want him out of office even more than the city residents. You would think that would be reversed.

Cause the city residents are content with his rule, they're barely affected. The North End only cares about the North End, and the North End seemingly cares about nothing. Or so some sources makes you presume on a consistent basis.

The people who tend to be affected most by Perez's failures and corruptions are suburbanites and business owners. People who likely aren't (or can't be) voting in Perez in the first place.

[Afro Saxon]

Cause the city residents are content with his rule, they're barely affected. The North End only cares about the North End, and the North End seemingly cares about nothing. Or so some sources makes you presume on a consistent basis.

The people who tend to be affected most by Perez's failures and corruptions are suburbanites and business owners. People who likely aren't (or can't be) voting in Perez in the first place.

This a rather strong generalization. Do you honestly believe you know enough about the North End to make such comments? The North End is pretty big composed of many different neighborhoods. Because the media tells you every neighborhood is poor violent full of uneducated non voting people doesn't mean its true.

[HartfordTycoon]

Cause the city residents are content with his rule, they're barely affected. The North End only cares about the North End, and the North End seemingly cares about nothing. Or so some sources makes you presume on a consistent basis.

The people who tend to be affected most by Perez's failures and corruptions are suburbanites and business owners. People who likely aren't (or can't be) voting in Perez in the first place.

This a rather strong generalization. Do you honestly believe you know enough about the North End to make such comments? The North End is pretty big composed of many different neighborhoods. Because the media tells you every neighborhood is poor violent full of uneducated non voting people doesn't means true.

I would have to agree with Afro Saxon, you are generalizing on a topic you know very little about first hand. Perez did not win the North End, Mathews did. I'm not going to get into a debate on the political zeal of the North End, but our voter turnout numbers are at the same level as in the rest of the city. So there are plenty of people here paying attention, plenty who care, and plenty who are impacted. Should there be more? Of course and if there were Perez would be toast. If it were up to the North End alone however, Perez would surely not be re-elected. So maybe you need to focus your dissaproval of voting habits on the South End, where they vote for Perez without even thinking. Also, you vastly underestimate Perez's support among the business community. Perez raised over $350,000 for his campaign with high profile donors from throughout the city. None of the other candidates have that sort of money, so it's a really up-hill battle. Mathews and Feltman only raised like $40 to $50 k, and in the case of Mathews it's mostly his own money. It's not easy to beat an incumbant, no matter how weak it seems like he should be from the outside looking in.

[Lowerdeck]

My bad my bad. For me being (way) on the outside, (I don't even consider my town being a part of 'Connecticut'), it's tough to figure out what's going on directly in the city. I want to see Hartford do good, and I'd like to know more. But all we find out in the corners of the state is that Hartford is led by a corrupt and inept leadership and the city layout is just a bunch of office towers surrounded by violent ghettos (where everything is a racial issue) surrounded by posh suburbs.

I probably shouldn't be so vocal on the topic. Cause as we see here, I look dumb as hell making these generalizations. Then again, if that's the general thought of Hartford from outside Hartford/Tolland County... this isn't good.

[Afro Saxon]

My bad my bad. For me being (way) on the outside, (I don't even consider my town being a part of 'Connecticut'), it's tough to figure out what's going on directly in the city. I want to see Hartford do good, and I'd like to know more. But all we find out in the corners of the state is that Hartford is led by a corrupt and inept leadership and the city layout is just a bunch of office towers surrounded by violent ghettos (where everything is a racial issue) surrounded by posh suburbs.

I probably shouldn't be so vocal on the topic. Cause as we see here, I look dumb as hell making these generalizations. Then again, if that's the general thought of Hartford from outside Hartford/Tolland County... this isn't good.

I think we all hold generalizations when thinking of the various parts of CT or any of it towns or cities, some negative some positive. In any event if your ever in Hartford send me a private message and I'll be happy to show you around, my treat.

[HartfordTycoon]

Crate & Barrel is open and the development is looking great I must say. I drive past every morning on my way to work. Only wish we had a fraction of this progress Downtown.

[drc72]

Crate & Barrel is open and the development is looking great I must say. I drive past every morning on my way to work. Only wish we had a fraction of this progress Downtown.

Yeah I was down there earlier as well, and I must say everything looks great.

[Afro Saxon]

Yeah I was down there earlier as well, and I must say everything looks great.

Was there today also, looks pretty good. Much larger than I expected.

[Hiramicus]

so we all know about the big chain stores going in... but anyone have an idea of what smaller shops and boutiques might go in. I was driving through and saw a "lily" store? Flowers maybe?

[ctman]

went over to bbs this morning, place is awesome and I can't wait until it is in full swing. we have been looking to leave downtown hartford because there is nothing to do and are narrowing our search to purchasing a home around WH center. An urban vibe with feet on the street, Starbucks - as well as most everything else - is open on sunday, and we could walk to shopping and entertainment. Everything that hartford should have but doesn't.

[beerbeer]

West Hartford Center is Hartford.

[T52]

I went over to

[ctman]

West Hartford Center is Hartford.

No, its not.

[beerbeer]

Ctman, good comeback! Of course West Hartford Center is part of Hartford.

I live in DC, work in Arlington. Arlington has the Iwo Jima Memorial and the Pentagon. They are as much more a part of Washington than Virginia. It's true all over the country, Santa Monica is part of LA. South Beach is part of Miami although Miami Beach is a separate town. I could go on for days.

That's how it is all over the country. New Englanders are so provincial they have trouble seeing it.

But the truth is that West Hartford is part of Hartford. That's why it exists. As good things happen in the region, they are good for everyone in the region. You can talk about technicalities like town lines and political districts but Hartford is Bradley Airport and Old Wethersfield. It is Rentschler Field and Avon Mountain. It is Buckland and Blue Back.

Until the residents of Connecticut figure that one out, they are giving themselves excuses to under achieve. They are denying their own possibilities. Provincialism may be comfortable but ultimately, you are just cutting yourself off from opportunity and the rest of the world.

[The Voice of Reason]

I agree with BeerBeer on that point.

I do want to add that Friday evening was my first time to Blue Back.

I will caution anyone that wants to check it out down there that it is still a very long way from being finished or vibrant. My wife humored me and we walked around the whole area, and both agree that it will be impressive once its built out. The retail will be nice all on its own, but the offices and condos will really make it nice. This place oozes potential. The only reason I caution people who have yet to go down there is that there is not really a whole lot to see yet. I am thinking that I will remind myself to not go back for likely another month.

We gave ourselves an hour in the parking meter across the street from Max's oyster bar and walked overr to explore blue back. We went thru all of REI and prettymych just walked by all the ther places (cheesecake was PACKED) and got the lay of the land. we eventually decided we were going to go out to dinner and decided on Dish back in downtown. So we walked back to our cars. Now we realized we still had 25 minutes so we went to starbucks. The purpose of all this is to show that we gave ourselves an hour but barely needed 30 minutes. I am going to really like Blue Back, but the old part of West Hartford will always be what makes me want to live there.

[Bill Mocarsky]

West Hartford Center is Hartford.

I agree.

I also feel WHC with BBS offers more potential to the growth of downtown Hartford than just about any other development that I have seen.

I have always thought that downtown Hartford felt isolated from the city. It doesn't flow gracefully into the surrounding areas.

BBS is one project that may raise the awareness of the Farmington Ave. corridor. This is where I see a linear urban environment linking the 2 downtowns.

The Farmington Ave corridor is very significant.

Some of Cts' most well known attractions (State Capitol, Mark Twain House, Elizabeth Park Rose Garden) are located on or near the corridor. The largest colonial building in the world (Aetna) is there. Large employers are located on Asylum Hill. There are several institutions in the west end area. There are also some great residential neighborhoods in the west end and West Hartford.

[ctman]

Ctman, good comeback! Of course West Hartford Center is part of Hartford.

I live in DC, work in Arlington. Arlington has the Iwo Jima Memorial and the Pentagon. They are as much more a part of Washington than Virginia. It's true all over the country, Santa Monica is part of LA. South Beach is part of Miami although Miami Beach is a separate town. I could go on for days.

That's how it is all over the country. New Englanders are so provincial they have trouble seeing it.

But the truth is that West Hartford is part of Hartford. That's why it exists. As good things happen in the region, they are good for everyone in the region. You can talk about technicalities like town lines and political districts but Hartford is Bradley Airport and Old Wethersfield. It is Rentschler Field and Avon Mountain. It is Buckland and Blue Back.

Until the residents of Connecticut figure that one out, they are giving themselves excuses to under achieve. They are denying their own possibilities. Provincialism may be comfortable but ultimately, you are just cutting yourself off from opportunity and the rest of the world.

Thank you, i try Allow me to play devil's advocate. If you really want to think of hartford as one big area, like you mention, then accept downtown hartford as what it is - where you go to work, like an office park on the otherside of town. you spend your weekends and off days in other parts of town - ie the suburbs. Why put in adriens landing, which it looks more and more like thats not going to happen, when it's easier to put in retail where the people already are? yo9u go to an office park and everything is closed at 5pm. you come to downtown hartford and everything closes at 5pm, except some resturants. On saturday, durring the day, nothing is open, and sundays nothing is open. towns shouldn't have to conceed development to hartford b/c it is the 'city'. if that was the case nothing would get done.

[HartfordTycoon]

I agree with points that beerbeer and ctman make. We do need to think as one huge region however we are bound by geography. Hartford the actual city needs to increase it's tax base and Blue Back Square does nothing to directly improve that situation. What it does do though is create momentum very close to Hartford that hopefully will rub off as the others have stated. BBS, as bland as some may find it, will help to sell the area to some people. Employers as they already do will bring prospective employees to WHC to show them a fairly cool part of the region. Greater Hartford needs that and that will indirectly benefit the city.

What Hartford needs to do now is focus on its strength. Right now that is restaurants and nightclubs. I say forget the retail for now and focus on trying to open more clubs and restaurants. I'm sure that nightclubs and restaurants will look very cool in H21. Give incentives to restaurant groups already in the region to open another location. We need a critical mass of nightlife to change people's minds about Hartford. It needs to be THE place to party and everything else late night in the region. While that may not be everyone's cub of tea, it will be appreciated by the young and single people in the region and the city is the proper venue for such a scene. Hartford cannot afford to be afraid of crowds and young people. We actually should be hoping to somehow flood Downtown with them. Once we become a true destination for nightlife, people will want to live Downtown and retailers will want to be there as well.

[PCGrad02]

Excellent post Tycoon, Singles and young couples with no kids are the key to the future of Hartford, there just needs to be a reason for them to be there. Families are too tough of a sell. Events need to be promoted outside of the Greater Hartford area as well, living in Norwich for 27 years I only went to Hartford for sporting events or concerts. We never thought of going out there because we didn't know what was going on. The Advocate or similar newspapers need to push out into other counties. Norwich is only a half hour or so down Route 2, not a bad drive for a night on the town. Forget about what fifty and sixty year old people think about Hartford, push the package on young people, they're not set in their ways, they're willing to try new and exciting things. Hartford needs social marketing, not just business marketing.

[MichaelQReilly]

Thank you, i try Allow me to play devil's advocate. If you really want to think of hartford as one big area, like you mention, then accept downtown hartford as what it is - where you go to work, like an office park on the otherside of town. you spend your weekends and off days in other parts of town - ie the suburbs. Why put in adriens landing, which it looks more and more like thats not going to happen, when it's easier to put in retail where the people already are? yo9u go to an office park and everything is closed at 5pm. you come to downtown hartford and everything closes at 5pm, except some resturants. On saturday, durring the day, nothing is open, and sundays nothing is open. towns shouldn't have to conceed development to hartford b/c it is the 'city'. if that was the case nothing would get done.

I agree with you overall point, and the points of others, that West Hartford Center really is a part of Hartford. I would hesitate, however, to go as far as saying that the suburbs in general are part of the city. Part of the region, yes. Part of the city, no. The reason I make this distinction is that West Hartford Center is part of Hartford's urban fabric. You can walk from the CBD, down Farmington Ave., all the way to WHC, and never leave an urban cityscape. In that sense, the CBD and WHC are kind of like Wall Street and Midtown in Manhattan, two focal points of one urban expanse. Not to get back into the whole annexation issue, but if Hartford's city boundaries reflected reality and not the distance of traveling to church in the 18th century, this whole concern over BBS replacing downtown would be a non-issue. It would simply mean that a different area of the city had become more fashionable. Stuff like this happens in NYC, Boston, London, etc. all of the time.

Tangentially, its pretty easy to fix the border between Hartford and the suburbs. Its basically the places the cityscape expanded to by the 1940's when suburban style developed replaced traditional development. If I had to pick what parts of other towns are "really" a part of Hartford, I would say most of the eastern part of West Hartford, the northernmost portions of Newington and Wethersfield, and the Southeast portion of Bloomfield. I would also include west-central East Hartford, but the highways have pretty much wiped out the connection of the cityscape that used to exist over the Buckley Bridge. This isn't to say that I don't recognize that most north-central Connecticut is part of the Hartford metro region, its just not the city proper.

[mikel]

West Hartford Center is NOT Hartford. It was originally built as the center of a farming community near Hartford. There is much of nothing between Hartford CBD and West Hartford Center, including a large gap in the urban continuity. It's a completely different place!

New districts become fashionable in cities, sure. But they are usually nearby, always close enough to walk. West Hartford is a completely different city.

[MichaelQReilly]

West Hartford Center is NOT Hartford. It was originally built as the center of a farming community near Hartford. There is much of nothing between Hartford CBD and West Hartford Center, including a large gap in the urban continuity. It's a completely different place!

New districts become fashionable in cities, sure. But they are usually nearby, always close enough to walk. West Hartford is a completely different city.

I'm aware that Hartford and West Hartford's downtowns started separately. But since that time, they grew into one another (in this case, its probably more appropriate to say that Hartford grew into West Hartford). It happens all the time in cities. Most of Brooklyn's neighborhoods, for example, started out as individual villages that grew into one another to form one city.

As far as downtown Hartford and WHC not having urban continuity, perhaps we are using the term differently. When I use the term, I'm referring to pre-sprawl, urban development that encompasses both commercial areas (like the CBD and WHC) and residential neighborhoods (Whitney Street or Sisson Ave., for example). You have that pretty much all along Farmington Ave. between the two centers, excepting some places where it was replaced by more suburban style development on the West Hartford side.

[beerbeer]

West Hartford Center is NOT Hartford. It was originally built as the center of a farming community near Hartford. There is much of nothing between Hartford CBD and West Hartford Center, including a large gap in the urban continuity. It's a completely different place!

New districts become fashionable in cities, sure. But they are usually nearby, always close enough to walk. West Hartford is a completely different city.

Manhattan was originally built as a farming village. So what? Hartford's west end is one of the most vital and lively areas in the entire city. It is two miles from BBS and two miles from downtown. Your observations raise a question. Have you ever been to Hartford?