COMPLETED: Blue Back Square

[redbaron]

West Hartford is a large Urban Town. One of the largest in the state population wise. West Hartford is only like 5,000 residents smaller than New Britain. West Hartford really should be a city in my eyes. Look at West Haven and East Haven, both are cities and East Haven is much smaller than West Hartford. The problem is West Hartford purpetuates this false notion that it is Quaint somehow. I don't get it at all. I go through West Hartford on my way to work in Simsbury everyday and just to illustrate my point that transition from Urban to Quaint does not occur until you get halfway up Avon mountain. If you want Quaint, try Simsbury, Avon, and Canton. Not West Hartford, the 3rd largest town in Hartford County.

Exactly, West Hartford is definitely urban, mostly upscale urban. It totally reminds me of some of the nice suburbs around philly. The only reason they have any open space is because the MDC owns most of the land around the reservoirs, if not that would all be developed as well...

[HartfordTycoon]

Exactly, West Hartford is definitely urban, mostly upscale urban. It totally reminds me of some of the nice suburbs around philly. The only reason they have any open space is because the MDC owns most of the land around the reservoirs, if not that would all be developed as well...

.....And as a large urban center in the urban core of Greater Hartford, West Hartford must do it's part for the region. They must drop the BS and come to grips with reality. West Hartford is not even close to small town. When the new condos open, those will arguably be the coolest, most desired areas to live in here in our part of the state along with Downtown. We need new cool neighborhoods so cool people don't keep leaving the region.

[drc72]

What is West Hartford's current population now?

[HartfordTycoon]

What is West Hartford's current population now?

I don't know off hand, somewhere between 60,000 and 65,000. New Britain is around 70,000 and Hartford is 125,000. Clearly the 3 largest and arguably most urban municipalities in Greater Hartford.

[HartfordTycoon]

I don't know off hand, somewhere between 60,000 and 65,000. New Britain is around 70,000 and Hartford is 125,000. Clearly the 3 largest and arguably most urban municipalities in Greater Hartford.

Ok, I don't know if everyone knows but BBS is getting a Cheesecake Factory. That's real good news to me because I love the one in Atlanta and the one in PVD is cool too. I do wish it could have been at Front Street but oh well, good for the region.

[drc72]

Ok, I don't know if everyone knows but BBS is getting a Cheesecake Factory. That's real good news to me because I love the one in Atlanta and the one in PVD is cool too. I do wish it could have been at Front Street but oh well, good for the region.

Nice! I love cheesecake.

[SOCOM]

Ok, I don't know if everyone knows but BBS is getting a Cheesecake Factory. That's real good news to me because I love the one in Atlanta and the one in PVD is cool too. I do wish it could have been at Front Street but oh well, good for the region.

I knew about the Crate & Barrel and Fleming's Steak House, but the Cheesecake factory is news to me. Good news.

I personally love the cheesecake factory, there's one right next to where I live here in NY. I know we urban minded people are supposed to hate all the chain restuarants because of their "substandard food and poor service", but their selection is huge and the cakes taste very good. I've been there numerous times and have nothing to complain about.

I just hope its not a stand alone 15,000 sq ft building with parking lots surrounding it. That's one thing WHC doesn't need.

[beerbeer]

To me the Cheesecake Factory is just another chain. It' like getting a TGI Fridays or Rudy Tuesday's. The food is similar.

[HartfordTycoon]

To me the Cheesecake Factory is just another chain. It' like getting a TGI Fridays or Rudy Tuesday's. The food is similar.

Well I'm used to the one in Atlanta. At least atmosphere wise, it's worlds away from any TGI Friday's or Ruby Tuesday. Down there it's right on Peachtree Next to ESPN Zone, valet parking and Benzes and Bentleys all night and the prettiest girls you've ever seen. A real desitination. But that's ATL. Hopefully ours will be pretty special too. I expect much more from this than from the new Ruby Tuesday in Bloomfield is basically all I'm saying. Cheesecake Factory in my experiences draws a younger "cooler" crowd than those other places. That's what I'm hoping for. I could see going there just for drinks and to hang out, I would never think of doing that at Ruby Tuesday or Friday's. Some people do I'm sure, but it wouldn't even cross my mind to do so. To me it's not the venue as much as the type of crowd it attracts.

I know supposedly urban people despise chains, truthfully I like a few of the more popular ones and would welcome them to Hartford with very open arms.

[jcrc]

Just got the inside scoop on rent being charged at BBS. It's about 60+/sq ft per year. For a 2000 square feet space, that will cost you 10K+ a month. Ouch. only well financed national or regional chains can afford that. It seems BBS will be just another upscale mall, albeit an outdoor mall.

[HartfordTycoon]

Just got the inside scoop on rent being charged at BBS. It's about 60+/sq ft per year. For a 2000 square feet space, that will cost you 10K+ a month. Ouch. only well financed national or regional chains can afford that. It seems BBS will be just another upscale mall, albeit an outdoor mall.

Who was really expecting anything else? I know this is exactly what Westfarms was expecting.

I think it's gonna be great. More variety and it is what people want, we will see when demand to live there is sky high and it's always packed with young adults, college kids, and middle aged folks. I think it will provide that critical mass needed to have a really cool neighborhood like Greater Hartford has never seen. Rent will be high, but the revenues will be huge over there as well for whoever can afford to try to make those profit margins work.

[Luca Brasi]

Interesting neighborhoods aren't built on outdoor malls and chain stores and restaurants. I hope Front St. (if it ever happens) takes an entire different direction.

[HartfordTycoon]

Interesting neighborhoods aren't built on outdoor malls and chain stores and restaurants. I hope Front St. (if it ever happens) takes an entire different direction.

Truly Interesting and authentic neighborhoods develop on their own. They are not created. I kind of see it as a moot point. We are trying to create economically healthy neighborhoods that will attract investment and interesting residents. Right now there's no place like this in Greater Hartford in my opinion. You have to give the people who you want to move in (the masses) what they want. The masses want what they are used to, or can get used to very quickly. That is what will be accomplished in BBS and it will surely be a huge success. Almost Every student at UHart will hang out at BBS and want to live there. That can translate to wanting to find a job here and stay here after graduation. These are kids from New Jersey and Long Island, they don't mind chain stores at all. Everything is not being built to my taste but to cater to the 1.2 Million residents of Greater Hartford who at present have somewhat limited options as far as retail and residential is concerned.

I was in Manhattan and Harlem on sunday and I realized the only reason people were outside to such a degree is due to the retail. Plenty of national retailers mixed in with local ones, the way I see it that's what it takes to make it work economically and have a vibrant energetic mixed use neighborhood which like I said does not currently exist in the region.

I would more than happily take BBS in Hartford. If done in the city it more than likely would have been more urban and on a more impressive scale and would definitely get those feet on the street and downtown residents that we are looking for.

[jcrc]

I donno, nothing unique, just more cookie cutter boxes, it will be so...boring.

[HartfordTycoon]

I donno, nothing unique, just more cookie cutter boxes, it will be so...boring.

Maybe it's a perception/age/demographic thing, because I think it will be the exact opposite of boring. I just want somewhere in Greater Hartford to come to life outdoors with all sorts of people pretty much at all times. I think BBS is our best chance until Front Street happens. I'm really looking forward to hanging out and walking around over there personally.

[SOCOM]

Truly Interesting and authentic neighborhoods develop on their own. They are not created. I kind of see it as a mute point. We are trying to create economically healthy neighborhoods that will attract investment and interesting residents. Right now there's no place like this in Greater Hartford in my opinion. You have to give the people who you want to move in (the masses) what they want. The masses want what they are used to, or can get used to very quickly. That is what will be accomplished in BBS and it will surely be a huge success. Almost Every student at UHart will hang out at BBS and want to live there. That can translate to wanting to find a job here and stay here after graduation. These are kids from New Jersey and Long Island, they don't mind chain stores at all. Everything is not being built to my taste but to cater to the 1.2 Million residents of Greater Hartford who at present have somewhat limited options as far as retail and residential is concerned.

I was in Manhattan and Harlem on sunday and I realized the only reason people were outside to such a degree is due to the retail. Plenty of national retailers mixed in with local ones, the way I see it that's what it takes to make it work economically and have a vibrant energetic mixed use neighborhood which like I said does not currently exist in the region.

I would more than happily take BBS in Hartford. If done in the city it more than likely would have been more urban and on a more impressive scale and would definitely get those feet on the street and downtown residents that we are looking for.

You and me see eye to eye on this project Tycoon.

I welcome a development with a few high end chain stores mixed in. It's not like BBS is going to be even 25% chain stores...it's mostly going to be local retailers. I'm personally a huge fan of Crate & Barrel, and I'm glad they are opening up their first CT store in BBS.

[HartfordTycoon]

You and me see eye to eye on this project Tycoon.

I welcome a development with a few high end chain stores mixed in. It's not like BBS is going to be even 25% chain stores...it's mostly going to be local retailers. I'm personally a huge fan of Crate & Barrel, and I'm glad they are opening up their first CT store in BBS.

Exactly, I'm happy about it. 1st Crate & Barrel in CT, 1st Cheesecake Factory, 1st Flemings Steakhouse (Never Been, all I know is it's upscale), 1st Whole Foods in Greater Hartford. I mean there is a lot to be pretty happy about in my opinion, and a lot to attract potential residents. This is one project that is like shooting fish in a barrel. No chance of failure is even apparent to me.

[jcrc]

Truly Interesting and authentic neighborhoods develop on their own. They are not created. I kind of see it as a mute point. We are trying to create economically healthy neighborhoods that will attract investment and interesting residents. Right now there's no place like this in Greater Hartford in my opinion. You have to give the people who you want to move in (the masses) what they want. The masses want what they are used to, or can get used to very quickly. That is what will be accomplished in BBS and it will surely be a huge success. Almost Every student at UHart will hang out at BBS and want to live there. That can translate to wanting to find a job here and stay here after graduation. These are kids from New Jersey and Long Island, they don't mind chain stores at all. Everything is not being built to my taste but to cater to the 1.2 Million residents of Greater Hartford who at present have somewhat limited options as far as retail and residential is concerned.

I was in Manhattan and Harlem on sunday and I realized the only reason people were outside to such a degree is due to the retail. Plenty of national retailers mixed in with local ones, the way I see it that's what it takes to make it work economically and have a vibrant energetic mixed use neighborhood which like I said does not currently exist in the region.

I would more than happily take BBS in Hartford. If done in the city it more than likely would have been more urban and on a more impressive scale and would definitely get those feet on the street and downtown residents that we are looking for.

Manhattan and Harlem have alot of local stores, they are the antithesis of mall, BBS is a mall. I agree with Luca Brasi. To me the best developed city/town is Northampton Mass where it has created an interesting and economically healthy neighborhoods that attracts plenty of investment and diversified residents.

[HartfordTycoon]

Manhattan and Harlem have alot of local stores, they are the antithesis of mall, BBS is a mall. I agree with Luca Brasi. To me the best developed city/town is Northampton Mass where it has created an interesting and economically healthy neighborhoods that attracts plenty of investment and diversified residents.

Well I can't say I've ever had the pleasure of visiting Northamton. I don't agree that Manhattan and Harlem are that different from the mall, looked the same to me, same stores and fast food joints. Looked the same as the outdoor shopping area in Boston near the state house whatever that's called. Same Idea is what I'm saying. Do you expect them to build all of these new buildings and put all small businesses in there? Would that even by profitable for the developer? There will be local shops there as well, and let's not forget that the entire rest of West Hartford Center is pretty much locally owned small businesses with an already large following. There will surely be some in the new development as well and the ones already there will quite possibly thrive even more once people start living in the center on a large scale. To me the national names are what was missing from WHC. Everything else was already there. There's nothing wrong with attracting Chains. It's mean you are doing something right on many levels. If you weren't doing something right they wouldn't want to be here. I think most of us would jump for joy if Cheesecake and other national names were even interested in investing in Downtown somewhere.

[beerbeer]

West Hartford Center is ALREADY a unique community center.

This addition will have ammenities that are found in other cities around the country. If BBS was the ENTIRE West Hartford Center jcrc might have a point. But his negativitiy isn't really justified. If you want one of kind restaurants like the Elbow Room or Max's, they are already there. There will something for everyone.

BBS will also contain the housing needed to make the center a 24/7 hub. I fully expect this to be the one of the most desired locations in New England.

The real problem will be controlling the growth of this area as more people and more developers discover this is the place to be.

[HartfordTycoon]

West Hartford Center is ALREADY a unique community center.

This addition will have ammenities that are found in other cities around the country. If BBS was the ENTIRE West Hartford Center jcrc might have a point. But his negativitiy isn't really justified. If you want one of kind restaurants like the Elbow Room or Max's, they are already there. There will something for everyone.

BBS will also contain the housing needed to make the center a 24/7 hub. I fully expect this to be the one of the most desired locations in New England.

The real problem will be controlling the growth of this area as more people and more developers discover this is the place to be.

Exactly. I personally hope that success in WHC will translate to more interest in other regional developments like Front Street, H21, and Coltsville by National Retailers. It certainly can't hurt.

[Luca Brasi]

I think most of us would jump for joy if Cheesecake and other national names were even interested in investing in Downtown somewhere.

Don't count on it. Ruby Tuesday has been trying to get into 960 Main St., but the developer won't allow it. And certain chains have been trying to get into Hartford 21 to no avail. The food sucks, nothing is made fresh and the service is horrendous. They have marketing dollars on their side and that's it. When you are bombarded with ads across all media for Olive Garden, there is a perception among the masses that its good. Its not. But how else can you explain a 45 min. for a table at Olive Garden when you can walk into a mom and pop restaurant on Franklin Ave. and sit down with no wait and have a dining experience that's 100 times better?

Westfarms mall has a constant mass of people, but is it interesting? Not in the least. West Hartford Center is a very unique and interesting place. I'm just hoping it doesn't get cheapened by allowing in chains in - regardless if they are "upscale" (the most overused word in the Hartford area) or not. I'm not a fan of cookie cutter chains like Cheesecake Factory at all. They belong in malls or a big box heaven like Buckland.

[HartfordTycoon]

Don't count on it. Ruby Tuesday has been trying to get into 960 Main St., but the developer won't allow it. And certain chains have been trying to get into Hartford 21 to no avail. The food sucks, nothing is made fresh and the service is horrendous. They have marketing dollars on their side and that's it. When you are bombarded with ads across all media for Olive Garden, there is a perception among the masses that its good. Its not. But how else can you explain a 45 min. for a table at Olive Garden when you can walk into a mom and pop restaurant on Franklin Ave. and sit down with no wait and have a dining experience that's 100 times better?

Westfarms mall has a constant mass of people, but is it interesting? Not in the least. West Hartford Center is a very unique and interesting place. I'm just hoping it doesn't get cheapened by allowing in chains in - regardless if they are "upscale" (the most overused word in the Hartford area) or not. I'm not a fan of cookie cutter chains like Cheesecake Factory at all. They belong in malls or a big box heaven like Buckland.

All I'll say is BBS probably would turn down Ruby Tuesday, but jumped at the chance for Cheesecake Factory. I would bet Hartford would do the same for that particular restaurant and others that are pretty much limited to 1 per state, if that, with the only exceptions being the largest Metros in the US. ESPN Zone is a chain too and so is Dave & Busters and if we could get one of those Downtown or (gasp) both we would be complete asses to turn it down. I honestly didn't even know Cheesecake was a chain the first time I went in Atlanta. It was just one of the coolest and biggest restaurants I had ever been to as a 18 year old kid from Hartford.

Just for perspective, this was all over my office today, especially among the 23 to 30 year old set and no one said "Oh no, a Cheesecake Factory, they're ruining the center!" Most people were more like "Hell Yeah!" & "I can't wait." So basically if you don't like it, don't go. But there will be plenty of people there who will enjoy it and be happy they came to town and all of your old homegrown favorites are still there. I really really don't see the problem.

[drc72]

It's to bad that this development is taking place in downtown Hartford. Although I am glad it is happening in the Hartford area, and this will benefit the region tremondousdly.

[jcrc]

I don't think Manhattan and Harlem is at all like a mall. Sure there are national chains, but what make NYC, or any city for that matter, stands out are locally owned shops that are unique and interesting. I can't imagine any travel guide will rave about Cheescake Factory, be it Atlanta's, West Hartford's or anywhere else's Cheesecake Factory, instead they will recommand Murasaki, and Azul, and rightly so.

I recently had a chat with a couple from San Francisco who stayed in Hartford for a week for their daughter's graduation at Trinity. They were looking to day trip destinations, when I suggested West Hartford their respond was "but its boring". Believe it or not, I can see their point of view. Sure most shops are local, but they are stale and safe. West Hartford's gift shops don't have local arts and crafts, galleries don't showcases local or regional artists, they only selling prints. There are few interesting ethnic eateries be them African, Caribbean, Morrocan, Ethiopian, Southern, or Soul Food. For a city of sixty thousands, there is no indie film theater. Before you guys think I am a snob, I am not saying WHC should be an alternative hippie town, or a new wave cutting edge type of place, but I do think there should be some diversification. There is no room in West Hartford now, so BBS could have been the place to add some colors. I have nothing against Crate and Barrel or Cheesecake Factory or Barnes and Noble, but if you've been to one, you've been to them all. Between Cheesecake Factory and Chili's I am indifferent, but between Cheese Cake Factory and lets say Trumbull Kitchen, there is no contest. Like Hartfordtycoon said, "truly Interesting and authentic neighborhoods develop on their own", BBS is forced, therefore not interesting and not genuine. If BBS is a movie, it is yet another sequal with no innovation and no excitement. It's a proven formula, but it's a boring formula.

On the other hand, if I can afford the rent, I just might sign up and make butt load pile of money. Who care if it is boring, money can't buy happiness, but it makes misery easier to cope with.