Norfolk Light Rail and Transit

[ronsmytheiii]

Thats what you fear? I am still waiting for a train, bus, car, bike, pedestrian accident to happen in Portland...we have the set up for that to happen, it is just a matter of time now.

well Norfolk is not Portland , I would love to actually have that problem, but I think right now cars will be the biggest problem.

Edited December 6, 2009 by ronsmytheiii

[urbanlife]

well Norfolk is not Portland , I would love to actually have that problem, but I think right now cars will be the biggest problem.

People driving on tracks when they are not suppose to is always a problem...I am actually surprised there isnt more accidents that happen with trains and cars in cities that have light rail.

[varider]

Hey guys,

Now that we have seen interest in transit from Chesapeake, Newport News, Norfolk[of course], Portsmouth, and Va Beach; the realization that we could one day have a regional DC metro-like transit system in HR is exciting. But a midtown Tunnel is about to be constructed without transit capacity. I don't know how our leaders could allow such an important transportation necessity to be excluded in the plans.

But do you think it would be possible to build a transit only tunnel under the Elizabeth later down the road? Metro crossed the Potomac, MTA crossed the Hudson, etc. All we would need is a 20 foot wide tube!

[Norfolk4Life]

This is what I fear will happen with our terrible drivers and light rail:

Havn't you heard of natural selection? They can only be but so stupid for so long....

[usermel]

The more and more I think about the fact we are getting light rail, the more happy I am to see the metro take this step. I think of the other areas to do light rail and other systems like this and its usually up and coming metros and well established ones. The whole metro will benefit via hopefully less cars for those who can use the rail system, I think they will. Gas will still be high as it is now and never will return to $1.09 for premium and $.99 for regular. People are being forced to change there ways and light rail is a sign the local leaders get that. Light rail is a great sign of growth they see coming and are preparing for it via alternative transportation. When I visit places with train systems for locals I think of very well put together metros and to see Norfolk step into the arena does me proud. Very happy time for Norfolks entire metro. Rail systems add charecter also to the city itself!!!! L.G.N.M

[varider]

It's great in so many wayss. The best of which, in my opinion, is the role it will play in the development of an urban core for Virginia Beach [which will help them attract corporations], redevelopment of the Oceanfront,continued urban infill downtown Norfolk, and TOD at the various stations. Later on down the road, it will relieve traffic on 64 and 264, and 564,etc.

In the coming years,especially after the VB extension + NS extension, the majority of the new apartment/condo developments are going to occur on the rail lines. The lifestyle will change from CAR CAR CAR to RAIL RAIL RAIL! There's going to be density that Hampton Roads has never seen in normal neighborhoods except for maybe Ghent. When I rolled up 95 the past week, heading through NoVa, there would be low density developments, then 1/2 mile later BAM! High density, 10-15 floor condo towers and office buildings. Then it would be low density again, next thing you know there's those same dense developments. I started to catch on. Wherever the metro goes there's high density developments! The same will occur in HR. A transit system from the Naval Station to Military and Downtown to the Oceanfront could thousands. Don't you think the majority of people, especially younger professionals, sailors, or just urban folk would want to live on the line? That's why the urbanity is going to come. You think we are going to continue to see low density, cul-de-sac type housing on a train line? Heck no. Neighborhoods like Ballentine, Newtown, Ingelside, etc. are going to be transformed, all the way down VB Blvd. to the Oceanfront.

[mlsimons]

But a midtown Tunnel is about to be constructed without transit capacity. I don't know how our leaders could allow such an important transportation necessity to be excluded in the plans.

It wasn't our leaders decision. It was skanska! They oppose light rail (even tho they'll pick up their contracts), b/c light rail will encourage the region to be less automobile dependent, which means less tolls for their precious midtown tunnel. Here's how public/private partnerships work....private interests control the infrastructure!

Skanska says they will offer us a transportation solution...they the commissioner of VDOT gets taken out to lunch by the president of Skanska, then magically the commissioner says HR will get no more transportation money for 6 years!!! So we better choose the Skanska deal even tho it doesn't include light rail like both towns want.

Public/Private partnerships are another way for private interest to control public policy and transportation spending.

Skanska knows why we are receiving no state funds and NOVA is getting 93.2%...and they love it!!!

[usermel]

I started out unsure about light rail to be honest. Over time, I see the advantages of it. It seems to be a symbol of growth and urban life. I guess in a way,no, I was wrong about light rail. I have to be honest about that. The city of Norfolk has done good job, not great with growth, just good. The things we are missing here hopefully will come in time such as a strong financial core so we aren't so military dependent!!! That said, I'm very happy Norfolk has light rail and hope it spreads all over the metro and changes the way Norfolk metro residents commute. This is something that metro areas that are growing and/or have already grown attain and I'm pleased we are among those metros who have been fortunate enough to have the funding and growth and POTENTIAL growth to justify such a move!!! L.G.N.M

Edited December 7, 2009 by usermel

[varider]

Wow mlsimons, thanks for the insight. I never thought about it like that..

And usermel. The reason I like LR is because I have dreams about an urban future of VB/Norfolk and an urban lifestyle for myself. The region, while not as bad as other areas like Atlanta or Phoenix, has sprawled uncontrollably in the past 30-40 years. Look at Chesapeake. All you can do is shake your head. Enormous parking lots, multiple WalMart supercenters, McMansions sitting on half an acre, one story office buildings, traffic jams on two lane streets, busses that run once an hour because it takes so long to ride into the suburban neighborhoods. There's so much wasted space and it's really not healthy for the economy or the natural resources. But anyway, lol. Light rail will create a "spine" for dense, urban developments to sprout up. As the system is expanded and goes to more employment and residential centers, more and more people will have the option to take rail, and some will move to one of the various TODs and rail will become part of their daily lifestyle. Not only will this aid in creating an urban HR and hopefully put an end to uncontrollable sprawl, but improve traffic around the region and help in business relocations and military efficiency.

This an aerial of TOD in Arlington. Look how it's suburban and low density and where the stations are a blow up of urban high-rises:

[ronsmytheiii]

I dont think Chesapeake is dense enough for Light-rail. Portsmouth should be the next city, Chesapeake is way too suburban right now. We need to have dense development, too much line too quickly encourages suburban development.

[varider]

I dont think Chesapeake is dense enough for Light-rail. Portsmouth should be the next city, Chesapeake is way too suburban right now. We need to have dense development, too much line too quickly encourages suburban development.

Chesapeake needs to fix it's growth habits ASAP and try to create an urban corridor in Greenbrier/Battlefield if it ever wants to have LR.

Norfolk is the smallest city pop. wise in the country to get LR because it's one of the most densely populated and developed in the Southen United States:

Norfolk. 4362.8 people per square mile

Portsmouth. 3,032.7/sq mi

Charlotte. 2838 people per square mile

Atlanta.4083 people per square mile

New Orleans. 2518/sq mi.

Jacksonville. 1061.6/sq mi

Houston. 3371.7 people

Just thought that was interesting.

Virginia Beach has taken the necessary steps and created the necessary plans to alter growth patterns and estalish an urban core along the abandoned NS ROW, so they need light rail first. Then the Naval Station. Then P-Town. Then the Peninsula will be SCREAMING for LR, Cpeake will take note and densify, and we'll be on the road to a great transit system.

[Ghentite]

Wow mlsimons, thanks for the insight. I never thought about it like that..

And usermel. The reason I like LR is because I have dreams about an urban future of VB/Norfolk and an urban lifestyle for myself. The region, while not as bad as other areas like Atlanta or Phoenix, has sprawled uncontrollably in the past 30-40 years. Look at Chesapeake. All you can do is shake your head. Enormous parking lots, multiple WalMart supercenters, McMansions sitting on half an acre, one story office buildings, traffic jams on two lane streets, busses that run once an hour because it takes so long to ride into the suburban neighborhoods. There's so much wasted space and it's really not healthy for the economy or the natural resources. But anyway, lol. Light rail will create a "spine" for dense, urban developments to sprout up. As the system is expanded and goes to more employment and residential centers, more and more people will have the option to take rail, and some will move to one of the various TODs and rail will become part of their daily lifestyle. Not only will this aid in creating an urban HR and hopefully put an end to uncontrollable sprawl, but improve traffic around the region and help in business relocations and military efficiency.

This an aerial of TOD in Arlington. Look how it's suburban and low density and where the stations are a blow up of urban high-rises:

I agree. Having used to live in the Ballston part of Arlington, I've see this first hand. When I first lived there, each station (Ballston, Clarendon, Courthouse) had it's own mini-city of highrises surrounding each station. The highrises were all mixed too...residential, commercial, then retail and restaurants on the bottom...a ton of them). Now I go back to visit friends, 5 years later and everything in between these stations is developed too in the same manner. Pretty cool our everything expanded out from these stations and eventually instead of a bunch of minicities, it became one continuous one.

[brikkman]

Chesapeake needs to fix it's growth habits ASAP and try to create an urban corridor in Greenbrier/Battlefield if it ever wants to have LR.

I would surpise if chesapeake went that route as they have had the land and opportunity to create an urban corridor for some years now and decided with the suburban feel. This is true of chesapeake square and greenbier. Just a sea of strip malls, unconnected at that.

[varider]

I agree. Having used to live in the Ballston part of Arlington, I've see this first hand. When I first lived there, each station (Ballston, Clarendon, Courthouse) had it's own mini-city of highrises surrounding each station. The highrises were all mixed too...residential, commercial, then retail and restaurants on the bottom...a ton of them). Now I go back to visit friends, 5 years later and everything in between these stations is developed too in the same manner. Pretty cool our everything expanded out from these stations and eventually instead of a bunch of minicities, it became one continuous one.

Yeah, TOD will transform the urban "face" of Hampton Roads around the transit lines. I can't wait for it!

Interesting piece on LR TOD: http://757hamptonroads.com/2009/12/07/tods/

Edited December 7, 2009 by varider

[vdogg]

This is a great pic. Can't wait to see trains going down this mini urban canyon.

[varider]

It'll be great to film trains when they are operational heading through there.

[mlsimons]

It would be more than great if Granby Tower was shining out like a beacon towards the end of this picture!!!!

[Norfolk4Life]

This is a great pic. Can't wait to see trains going down this mini urban canyon.

I was just looking at this picture thinking 'wow, thats a pretty good shot' then 'it looks familiar' then i realized i took it... lol

[varider]

Yeah,that's the best picture of the Belmont i've seen, Norfolk4Life..

I'm still hoping ridership shuts up the naysayers in a few months!

[urbanlife]

Yeah,that's the best picture of the Belmont i've seen, Norfolk4Life..

I'm still hoping ridership shuts up the naysayers in a few months!

It probably will, seeing that locals in VB hated the idea of the town center, now they seem to love it because it gives the city a "center." I have found people there hate any form of change and will kick and scream until it happens, then once it is in place, they compliment it and wonder what they ever did without it. ("they" being the whiny naysayers.)

[varider]

I was surprised to see how much progress has been made on the trackwork from Newtown to Military and up to the Broad Creek bridge!

Driving down Curlew, the track has been laid, straightened, and the base for the electric poles have been laid continuously from Newtown to the bridge!

It's almost done!

I wish I could have taken pictures, but my camera was dead.

[varider]

http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_news/light-rail-traffic-update

Published : Tuesday, 15 Dec 2009, 11:56 AM ESTNORFOLK, Va. - All travel lanes on the west side of Colley Avenue, between Brambleton Avenue and Southampton Avenue will close for the first phase of light rail construction come Tuesday, December 15.

[urbanvb]

Another positive of LR moreso if VB is on board is hopefully it will blur the lines between Norfolk and VB. As TOD sprouts up in both cities hopefully they will become more alike. I think LR will make both cities more cohesive more than ever.

[varider]

I agree urbanvb.

It's going to create a "sense of place" in Hampton Roads. City limits will mean less and less IMO. We can already see through the New town and Pembroke plans that the Beach is looking to capitalize on TOD opportunities.

[Sky06]

City limits will mean less and less IMO.

Interesting point. I've always had a problem with "city limits" signs in the first place. It says to me, "You're no longer in their town. Now, you're in ours." Just what Hampton Roads needs.