Norfolk Light Rail and Transit

[Mobius57]

Acually we do have alot of high paying jobs, they are just stratified all over HR and its cities and not in the downtown.

[brikkman]

Acually we do have alot of high paying jobs, they are just stratified all over HR and its cities and not in the downtown.

Not to keep it off topic, but I think the problem with that statement is that they belong to older people. An article was posted here a couple years ago about hamptonroads was 5 worst of the top 80 metro's for attracting young professionals. I know that to be true first hand. If I were not from Norfolk and/or had a son here, I would be somewhere else. the husle is too great and for little reward. Its great if you make 90 grand in HR but is it so surpriseing if your 50 years old? Like tel says, we need more young people with idea's, but we must attract them. Between me and my wife, we make a good living IMO, but we can not afford crap (mainly because of her credit score, lol, but you get the picture).

[CaveMaN]

Not to keep it off topic, but I think the problem with that statement is that they belong to older people. An article was posted here a couple years ago about hamptonroads was 5 worst of the top 80 metro's for attracting young professionals. I know that to be true first hand. If I were not from Norfolk and/or had a son here, I would be somewhere else. the husle is too great and for little reward. Its great if you make 90 grand in HR but is it so surpriseing if your 50 years old? Like tel says, we need more young people with idea's, but we must attract them. Between me and my wife, we make a good living IMO, but we can not afford crap (mainly because of her credit score, lol, but you get the picture).

I agree with this to the letter. The jobs for younger people out here cannot pay a proportional salary compared to other cities. Had I not moved out here for the wrong reasons when I did, I'd never ever have come out this way. I'm in school now for civil engineering (last semster for my associate at TCC then fall at ODU), and I think here I'd be lucky to start at 50k somewhere if I graduated and stayed. Back in the Midwest, I have friends I went to college with (my first go around when I was 18-20) that started at 60-70k working in Chicago, Minneapolis, Indy, etc.

The only jobs out here that pay well for young people, is the military, and the majority of those guys leave after a year or two, giving nothing back to the region. We need better paying longterm jobs for young professionals.

[Mobius57]

hmm, good point Brikkman

[Sky06]

Some old:

Around City Hall:

From Harbor Park back toward City Hall:

Toward Harbor Park:

Under I-264 toward Harbor Park:

At Brambleton Bridge:

Edited June 8, 2009 by Sky06

[varider]

The LRT VSMF and the actual stations are up for final review June 11.

2. Public Projects Action

a. Final Review

i. HRT Light Rail Stations (Various Locations)

[varider]

http://www.streetfilms.org/archives/phoeni...l-takes-flight/

Video about Phoenix's light rail system.. I hope Norfolk makes our starter line just as appealing as Phoenix has.. Their system runs 20 miles and average ridership 35,000.. The City of Phoenix has done so many things to get people to ride it and Transit Oriented Development has took of in Downtown Phoenix.. I hope the City of Norfolk does the right thing and not lay some tracks with a couple benches for stations and expects people to ride. It'd be so much better if it went to the oceanfront already. But we must make do with what we have, right..I'm not so sure our system will be as effective as Charlotte and Phoenix because the population of their Downtown's are so much higher than Norfolk.. But we'll see.

Edited June 23, 2009 by varider

[Chesapeake Pirate]

http://www.streetfilms.org/archives/phoeni...l-takes-flight/

Video about Phoenix's light rail system.. I hope Norfolk makes our starter line just as appealing as Phoenix has.. Their system runs 20 miles and average ridership 35,000.. The City of Phoenix has done so many things to get people to ride it and Transit Oriented Development has took of in Downtown Phoenix.. I hope the City of Norfolk does the right thing and not lay some tracks with a couple benches for stations and expects people to ride. It'd be so much better if it went to the oceanfront already. But we must make do with what we have, right..I'm not so sure our system will be as effective as Charlotte and Phoenix because the population of their Downtown's are so much higher than Norfolk.. But we'll see.

The key is what you said. This a starter line. It is not a magic trick that will be the best light rail in the country the very first day. It needs to be expanded sooner rather than later to the Oceanfront, to ODU, to the Naval base, to the airport, to Greenbrier, and to the Peninsula. It will take a long time but thank God Norfolk has started the ball rolling.

[brikkman]

The key is what you said. This a starter line. It is not a magic trick that will be the best light rail in the country the very first day. It needs to be expanded sooner rather than later to the Oceanfront, to ODU, to the Naval base, to the airport, to Greenbrier, and to the Peninsula. It will take a long time but thank God Norfolk has started the ball rolling.

I'm starting to feel like the peninsula extention will not come as quickly as we all hoped. I think its important to get the southside interconnected first or it will basically be the same outcome (unless it goes by the peninusla ship yard).

[varider]

I'm starting to feel like the peninsula extention will not come as quickly as we all hoped. I think its important to get the southside interconnected first or it will basically be the same outcome (unless it goes by the peninusla ship yard).

According to the Transit Vision Plan, the extension to the peninsula will not come until 2030.. But the good news is in the mean time ferry docks are to be constructed in Downtown Newport News w/ ferries running to the Naval Station where you can get on the train to get Downtown or wherever..

[CaveMaN]

According to the Transit Vision Plan, the extension to the peninsula will not come until 2030.. But the good news is in the mean time ferry docks are to be constructed in Downtown Newport News w/ ferries running to the Naval Station where you can get on the train to get Downtown or wherever..

That all seems like a lot of effort to get downtown. It seems like this would only immediately benefit people living very close to the docks, or people who just wanted to try something new on a saturday afternoon...

[varider]

Actually, it looks like there will be ferry service from the Pensinsula to Downtown as well as to the Naval Station.. That wouldn't be too difficult.. I'd rather ride a relaxing ferry than sit in that tunnel traffic. Imagine the view you would get of the harbor and the naval base, ect.. But I can't wait until the long range when it's LRT!

[brikkman]

Actually, it looks like there will be ferry service from the Pensinsula to Downtown as well as to the Naval Station.. That wouldn't be too difficult.. I'd rather ride a relaxing ferry than sit in that tunnel traffic. Imagine the view you would get of the harbor and the naval base, ect.. But I can't wait until the long range when it's LRT!

A highspeed ferry would be nice, but sounds expensive as well.

Wouldn't want to take a ferry for the sake of not sitting in traffic for the same amount of time to get across the river. Got to remember, people love their bimmers and benz......That's what they work hard to get.

[varider]

http://hamptonroads.com/2009/06/asbestos-n...demolition-cost

Kirn Memorial Library, which is being readied for demolition for a light-rail station, is far more laced with asbestos than anyone ever thought.

It's in the ceiling, the walls, the columns and even the glue on the floor.

To remove and dispose of the hazardous material, Hampton Roads Transit's board acted Thursday to add $593,000 to the demolition contract, which now totals $1.5 million.

Norfolk councilman and HRT board member W. Randy Wright said the overall light-rail budget, $288 million, will not change.

"It is part of existing contingency funds," he said.

Even before Thursday's change, the demolition contract with S.B. Cox Inc. was triple the original projections - all because of asbestos. The contract covers razing Kirn on City Hall Avenue as well as the Baylor Building on York Street, which is now gone.

The full extent of the asbestos could not be identified until the library moved books out at the end of 2008 and crews could open up walls and floors and test the material.

Most of Kirn's books and staff moved to a smaller building, the historic Seaboard Building, which was renamed Norfolk Main Library. Over the next four years, a $50 million addition will be built onto Seaboard.

Much of the hazardous material in Kirn has already been dealt with.

Crews will use an excavator to knock down the 47-year-old former main library, beginning on July 6. The site will be cleared by the end of August, said Fred Schneader, HRT's senior vice president for construction.

HRT is partnering with the city to build a 7.4-mile light-rail line beginning at the medical center near Brambleton Avenue, going through downtown and reaching the city line at Newtown Road.

The line is projected to open in late summer or early fall of 2010.

[ronsmytheiii]

ordinarily a parking lot being built is not too exciting, but when it is a park and go for light rail it is:

Newtown Road station will be on the left, park and go will be on the right side. Still have two houses and the Moose lodge to demolish, 5 houses already gone plus and old gas station/garage

Edited June 26, 2009 by ronsmytheiii

[varider]

Isn't there supposed to be a TOD being built there?? Like an office building or something? It'd be cool if there was like a restaurant or something at the end of the line..

[PeninsulaKiddo]

Wow, it's been a very long time ladies and gents. I've been studying in Brussels since mid-May and had a hectic and Hellish end to my Spring semester. My time in Brussels has given me some insight into mass transit, however...

http://www.eurostar4agents.com/images/brus...tro_map_big.gif

The above link shows the layout of the Brussels metro system - it looks a bit complicated, especially to people not used to using mass transit (such as myself) but it's actually extremely easy to use. It's also given me a few ideas on how the HR system should be developing down the road.

There are a few major hubs in this system, at De Brouckere/Gare Central (the downtown shopping district, Grand Place, and Gare Central - the central train station), at Arts-Loi/Kunst-Wet (a major cross-roads of the system and on the periphery of the EU Commission / Parliament buildings), at Montgomery (which connects to tram and bus lines leading into the Eastern suburbs) and Gare du Midi/Zuidstation (another train station in the southern edge of the city). This system is expansive, yet extremely efficient and I think our area could take a few lessons away from it. For example, on the huge parking lots around Harbor Park, I think the city has an opportunity to create one of these "transit hubs" -- build a large, multiuse station (with cafes, newstands, maybe one full-service restaurant) with expansion lines running south into Greenbrier, west into Portsmouth, etc.; also, given massive increases in funding for regional and national rail networks, this could be an opportune time to consider constructing a legitimate railway station with connections west to Richmond, southwest to Raleigh-Durham, and some means of connecting to a future, integrated, high-speed railway network. As has been mentioned, a future connection to the Peninsula (decades from now) may necessitate another "hub" somewhere in the northwestern parts of Norfolk, or maybe along the Suffolk/Portsmouth line (or both?). These hubs do much more than just move people about; they function as huge centers for interaction and, thus, for business (shops, cafes, and other small outlets thrive on the in-and-out atmosphere of a busy transit station).

Riding the tram into the city every day for the last 6 weeks has been occasionally a blessing, occasionally a curse; but I will say this, the comprehensive connectivity of the system here is incredible. I can board a tram in Tervuren, on the extreme eastern edge of Brussels suburbs, take it 25 minutes into the city at Montgomery, then switch onto the underground and be at Gare du Midi in time to catch a 1 hour train ride to Paris on the Thalys. All avoiding traffic snarls and oppressive summer humidity. Who wouldn't yearn for a day like that in Hampton Roads? (Just... supplant "Paris" with "D.C." - a little less romantic, but also fun!).

I am so excited to see the system coming along by leaps and bounds and I CAN NOT wait to ride it some time next year It's something completely worth waiting for.

[virginia pe]

Isn't there supposed to be a TOD being built there?? Like an office building or something? It'd be cool if there was like a restaurant or something at the end of the line..

Give it time. If light rail is successful, TOD's will pop up at every station, especially at the terminus. (Hopefully, the terminus will become a hub in a few years when the Virginia Beach extension and the Naval Station lines are added.)

Some people are not thrilled with the spartan design of the light-rail stations, but they are designed to be throw-aways, to be replaced by TOD's. Once LRT is up and running, developers will start to build TOD's that incorporate the light rail station into the new buildings. It is proper for the government to build the LRT, but the TOD's should be left to the private sector.

[varider]

Give it time. If light rail is successful, TOD's will pop up at every station, especially at the terminus. (Hopefully, the terminus will become a hub in a few years when the Virginia Beach extension and the Naval Station lines are added.)

Some people are not thrilled with the spartan design of the light-rail stations, but they are designed to be throw-aways, to be replaced by TOD's. Once LRT is up and running, developers will start to build TOD's that incorporate the light rail station into the new buildings. It is proper for the government to build the LRT, but the TOD's should be left to the private sector.

It really doesn't make good sense to build throwaway stations, There is absolutely no land to incorporate the station with a development anywhere along the starter line, except at the site of the Kirn Library.. So make the stations beautiful and open now, I don't want the stations to look like a regular bus stop!

&& did you guys know that it will take 21 minutes to get from EVMS to Newtown Rd.? That is not very effective if you ask me.. That means that it will take almost an hour to get from Downtown to the Oceanfront on the train?? No way Jose, we need Rapid Transit.. Is there anything they can do to speed up the trip times? Like run an express train during peak times in the summer that only makes a stop at Downtown, Newtown Road, VBTC, and the Oceanfront? Maybe get up to 45 mph on the straight away and get us there in less than 30 minutes??

[PeninsulaKiddo]

It really doesn't make good sense to build throwaway stations, There is absolutely no land to incorporate the station with a development anywhere along the starter line, except at the site of the Kirn Library.. So make the stations beautiful and open now, I don't want the stations to look like a regular bus stop!

&& did you guys know that it will take 21 minutes to get from EVMS to Newtown Rd.? That is not very effective if you ask me.. That means that it will take almost an hour to get from Downtown to the Oceanfront on the train?? No way Jose, we need Rapid Transit.. Is there anything they can do to speed up the trip times? Like run an express train during peak times in the summer that only makes a stop at Downtown, Newtown Road, VBTC, and the Oceanfront? Maybe get up to 45 mph on the straight away and get us there in less than 30 minutes??

Not to turn this into the Brussels Light Rail thread... but - here what they do is they run express ones during peak hours where they only stop at the endpoints and the riders must press buttons to indicate where to stop to the tram driver. Our trams here get up to 70kph on straight-aways, so 45mph seems doable. Often times, in smaller cities, the reality is that trams or trains are not much faster than street traffic; however, if there is an accident and/or backup, trams can avoid it far more easily, so in those crunch times they save, as well as (typically) during rush hour.

[brikkman]

I do not own a Mercedes yet so it is not a far stretch for me to want LRT. I would not think it would be faster than a car however, I do expect it to extremely cost effective to use. I do not know how much it cost to ride a bus, but if it is an equivalent, that's not much of an incentive to get people riding it, unless it hits all major employers directly within the region. I know that there are things to come and I purposely can wait, I just get tired of hearing people's mouths about this being subsidize when welfare is subsidize without real constraints. Welfare isn't thought about in comparisons for two main reasons, people only think about public housing and food stamps. They do not see everything else that's attached to that as well like, lights, water, sewage, clothing, medical, dentistry, telephone, tax refunds. For some of these things, you have to multiply them by 3 or 4 as it relates to individuals. That adds up to be a lot of money, especially when you are doing nothing to earn it. So with that comparison in mind, it can be a white elephant all it wants, just throw it in the hole with everything else. At least this is for everyone and it is no loop hole that surround it.

Regarding safety, fire the police chief, get someone else in there who understands crime and willing to do something about it. Then maybe people will feel comfortable with riding it with other people. I never seen LRT as a poor vs well off thing. I seen it as an effective mode of transportation that suits everyone if you do it right.

[cpeakesqr]

I do not own a Mercedes yet so it is not a far stretch for me to want LRT. I would not think it would be faster than a car however, I do expect it to extremely cost effective to use. I do not know how much it cost to ride a bus, but if it is an equivalent, that's not much of an incentive to get people riding it, unless it hits all major employers directly within the region. I know that there are things to come and I purposely can wait, I just get tired of hearing people's mouths about this being subsidize when welfare is subsidize without real constraints. Welfare isn't thought about in comparisons for two main reasons, people only think about public housing and food stamps. They do not see everything else that's attached to that as well like, lights, water, sewage, clothing, medical, dentistry, telephone, tax refunds. For some of these things, you have to multiply them by 3 or 4 as it relates to individuals. That adds up to be a lot of money, especially when you are doing nothing to earn it. So with that comparison in mind, it can be a white elephant all it wants, just throw it in the hole with everything else. At least this is for everyone and it is no loop hole that surround it.

Regarding safety, fire the police chief, get someone else in there who understands crime and willing to do something about it. Then maybe people will feel comfortable with riding it with other people. I never seen LRT as a poor vs well off thing. I seen it as an effective mode of transportation that suits everyone if you do it right.

I think this is what some people think will happen if they use any form of mass transit...

Edited June 29, 2009 by cpeakesqr

[PeninsulaKiddo]

If that's not an incentive to ride the Tide, I don't know what is! They should put that in promotional videos.

[jbhay]

After doing some traveling on I-664 on my weekend trips out of HR, I noticed that new rail sprouting up in the median and just did some research on it. Called the Commonwealth Railway Mainline Safety Relocation Project, the project's abandonment of the existing rail going through 14 at-grade crossings immediately got me thinking on how this could be a future right-of-way for any Light Rail extensions.

What does everyone think about this? Will it work, is it effective, etc.?

[Telmnstr]

Anyone know when the library is coming down? I've had a camera taking pictures of it for a month to make a cool video. I've got 6000 photos and only a scaffold to show.