Greensboro Urban Loop (Painter Boulevard)

[Creasy336]

Nice idea! too bad US 29/US 70 could not be signed as I-785 due to two at grade intersections with stop lights and a substandard design throughout its entirety. I-785 from through Greensboro is a good idea, I liked it better when the old plans were for O'Henry BL to be upgraded to I-785...oh well.

[luvdowntowngso]

Has anyone noticed the large number of street lights that are out from Death Valley to the split just passed Sandy Ridge Road? Just after they were installed, they were working and looked nice! Now 75% of them along that streach are out. It looks like crap! All that money spent on lights and the highway is dark. I'd hate to have car trouble at night there! So typical of street lights in Greensboro anyway!

[cityboi]

Has anyone noticed the large number of street lights that are out from Death Valley to the split just passed Sandy Ridge Road? Just after they were installed, they were working and looked nice! Now 75% of them along that streach are out. It looks like crap! All that money spent on lights and the highway is dark. I'd hate to have car trouble at night there! So typical of street lights in Greensboro anyway!

I know right. It took them for ever to put those lights there. Another thing I'd like to know. Why does it take SO LONG to put highway signs in place in Greensboro? It took for ever to change the I-40 signs to business 40. Those signs should have already been made before construction was finished on the loop. And they still havent put the "Greensboro City Limit" sign back on I-85 near Holden Rd after it was removed YEARS ago for highway construction. Also suposedly local groups had been working on welcome to Greensboro signs that say "Home of the Atlantic Coast Conference". That was back in 2001 and the ACC even gave its blessings for it. Why the hell is it such a huge task to do these things?

[Roadgeek]

I know right. It took them for ever to put those lights there. Another thing I'd like to know. Why does it take SO LONG to put highway signs in place in Greensboro? It took for ever to change the I-40 signs to business 40. Those signs should have already been made before construction was finished on the loop. And they still havent put the "Greensboro City Limit" sign back on I-85 near Holden Rd after it was removed YEARS ago for highway construction. Also suposedly local groups had been working on welcome to Greensboro signs that say "Home of the Atlantic Coast Conference". That was back in 2001 and the ACC even gave its blessings for it. Why the hell is it such a huge task to do these things?

It's the DOT. They can take as long as they want.

[sean]

I just updated the Guilford County map not too long ago and now the maps are going to be wrong.

all maps lie!

[cityboi]

all maps lie!

indeed they do

[gman430]

Sounds like somebody is upset with Greensboro's new loop:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/597/story/552414.html Can't say I blame him especially with the re-routing of I-40. Once again our DOT has proven to be nothing short of useless and stupid.

[beyonce245]

Sounds like somebody is upset with Greensboro's new loop:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/597/story/552414.html Can't say I blame him especially with the re-routing of I-40. Once again our DOT has proven to be nothing short of useless and stupid.

I agree with the re-routing of 1-40, although I think in time it won't really matter what the actual designation of that portion of 840 is. As more travelers become accustomed with it, I think use will pick up. I know I use it instead of Death Valley.

The grumblings in this article sound like the usual rants from Charlotte residents, always thinking someone is out to get them. Just read some of the comments: "This all points to the root of one of North Carolina's most serious problems: The string-pullers in Rah-lee go out of their way to hose the largest, most prosperous city - Charlotte."

So because Charlotte is the "largest, most prosperous city," the NC DOT should divert resources from the States other 7+ million taxpaying residents and devote all it's time, energy, and money to Charlotte exclusively? Makes no sense whatsoever.

[gman430]

I find loops around cities to be useless and should be completely done away with. They're a waste of taxpayers dollars and just create more sprawl/traffic in the end. Also, I can't seem to figure out why they just don't name the new loop in Greensboro one interstate name like they did with I-285 in Atlanta and I-485 in Charlotte. I was looking at a map of the new loop and it looked like it had five different names. Very confusing if you ask me.

[beyonce245]

I find loops around cities to be useless and should be completely done away with. They're a waste of taxpayers dollars and just create more sprawl/traffic in the end. Also, I can't seem to figure out why they just don't name the new loop in Greensboro one interstate name like they did with I-285 in Atlanta and I-485 in Charlotte. I was looking at a map of the new loop and it looked like it had five different names. Very confusing if you ask me.

The loop in Greensboro is I-840. However, I believe it can't take that official designation until all segments of the loop are complete.

[suburban george3]

The loop in Greensboro is I-840. However, I believe it can't take that official designation until all segments of the loop are complete.

Then why do I-540 in Raleigh and I-485 have their current designations? The DOT has completely screwed this up in Greensboro.. IMO.

And to make a comment on the Charlotte Observer article, he is correct, the current opened segment seems very lightly travelled to me. Not to mention that it takes much longer to get thru Guilford County taking this route..

[Creasy336]

Then why do I-540 in Raleigh and I-485 have their current designations? The DOT has completely screwed this up in Greensboro.. IMO.

And to make a comment on the Charlotte Observer article, he is correct, the current opened segment seems very lightly travelled to me. Not to mention that it takes much longer to get thru Guilford County taking this route..

Any segment of the loop can have be designated as being part of the loop as long as it ends at a major US highway or Interstate. For example I-540 was designated as such as soon as it reached US 70

[Creasy336]

I think people from the Charlotte area do have a grip. I-485 from I-77N to I-85N was more important than the Southwestern Loop (OLDNEW 40/I-73/I-840). Think about it, NCDOT has built a 6 to 8 lane freeway with all the bells and whistles just avoid fixing a 2.5 mile section of highway. We are all well aware of the improvements made to I-40 in western Greensboro. Whats done is done...simple solution rename the old section of I-40/I-85 to I-740 since suddenly this section is good enough to remain an interstate despite a new one being built.

[beyonce245]

I think people from the Charlotte area do have a grip. I-485 from I-77N to I-85N was more important than the Southwestern Loop (OLDNEW 40/I-73/I-840). Think about it, NCDOT has built a 6 to 8 lane freeway with all the bells and whistles just avoid fixing a 2.5 mile section of highway. We are all well aware of the improvements made to I-40 in western Greensboro. Whats done is done...simple solution rename the old section of I-40/I-85 to I-740 since suddenly this section is good enough to remain an interstate despite a new one being built.

Perhaps I am simply taking too much of a simple view of this, but isn't it called an outer loop for a reason? Sure, outer loops and beltways help to ease congestion from already existing interstates, such as I-40. But how many Greensboro residents do you think will use 840 to get to and from work or wherever they're heading? The Charlotte Observer articles cites pretty heavy traffic volumes for 485. But how many of those cars are actually Charlotte residents trying to avoid clogged city roads? As the Triad cities grow larger and towards one another, residents are going to want and need an alternative to traveling congested city roads from Winston to Greensboro or vice versa.

It seems like everyone missed the part of the article about the DOT using Charlotte as an example of what NOT to do. Perhaps other factors fueled the DOT's decision to build 4 lanes instead of 3. Perhaps they thought construction costs would be too prohibitive in 10 or 15 years. Perhaps they are factoring in traffic for when I-73 is completed. I don't know. And unless anyone of us does, all of this is just speculation.

This whole debacle is moot anyway. Unless Charlotte wants to pay the NC DOT to have the signs moved AGAIN, it looks like they are there to stay.

On these boards and on blog sites, Charlotte residents go crazy over stuff like this, as if the State is purposely sticking it to them for being the largest city. Personally I think that's absurd, but they do seem to revel in calling themselves the "great state of Mecklenburg." Nevertheless, I would remind them that all of us are represented by legislators in Raleigh, and if you don't like what's going on, take it up with them.

[Creasy336]

but isn't it called an outer loop for a reason?

Agreed but Greensboro's outer loop is within 3 miles or less the road its meant to ease congestion on at all points travel south from any business 85 or business 40 exit. To me the loop is almost redundant.

The Charlotte Observer articles cites pretty heavy traffic volumes for 485. But how many of those cars are actually Charlotte residents trying to avoid clogged city roads?

Having lived in Charlotte for awhile I can tell you that alot of Charlotte residents will use that portion of the outer loop being that there are large residential and employment hubs (University City and the Lake area) at both ends. Truckers will also be able to use the new route and avoid using city streets. I think the importance of I-485 is oftentimes under rated by people who don't live in Charlotte. Harris Blvd is one of the most heavily travelled roads in the state and as of now there is no equivalent to that road as far as rush hour conjestion in the Triad.

Like we both agreed on its a moot point now but I would have liked to have seen that road widened to 6 lanes on each side (5 main-1 HOV) with modernized interchanges rather than the redundant sprawl machine highway we now. I recommend a drive through Durham to see how this is done. Oh and one other thing there are still traffic problems and hazards in death valley due to poor design. This is my last post concerning Painter Blvd ever.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

The Charlotte Observer snidely says the Greensboro Beltway is unwise because it is building 8 lanes decades before the lanes will be needed. I think it's smart to build roads that are decades ahead of the curve instead of decades behind.

[waccamatt]

The Charlotte Observer snidely says the Greensboro Beltway is unwise because it building 8 lanes decades before the lanes will be needed. I think it's to build roads that are decades ahead of the curve instead of behind.

I think that's very smart. The Observer must think the Charlotte method (building a road like 485 that is outdated by the time it opens) is the way to go.

[cityboi]

"This curious flip-flop affects Charlotte because Greensboro's outerbelt is being built with urban loop funds. That's the same pot of money Charlotte needs to finish I-485."

I thought that was an interesting response from the Charlotte Observer.

The arrogance. I guess some of them down there think "we are more important than little ole hick Greensboro", Even though for decades Charlotte and Raleigh have been taking the bulk of state DOT funds. Remember when I-40 in Greensboro was a congested 4 lane highway? It was that way for years and the money wasnt there to widen lanes because money was going to projects in Charlotte and Raleigh.

While I agree that DOT doesnt know what its doing at times, particularly with the re-routing of I-40, I thought there was a smell of arrogance in that article.

So because Charlotte is the "largest, most prosperous city," the NC DOT should divert resources from the States other 7+ million taxpaying residents and devote all it's time, energy, and money to Charlotte exclusively? Makes no sense whatsoever.

Thank God Pat McCrory didnt become governor. I love Charlotte but the more towers they build, the more arrogant they become.

As for the DOT. The Greensboro loop is a mess. The whole thing should have been labeled I-840 all the way around to begin with to avoid so much confusion. Its quite embarassing. Its really confusing to have 5 interstate designations on a loop in different sections. But from what I heard, the Greensboro Visitors and Convention Bureau raised a big stink and played a part in putting I-40 back on the old route....I wonder why? Lets see could it be because their office, their beloved Koury Convention Center is on that route with the coliseum nearby? Remember politics are involved in everything and the story about traffic noise bothering a few residents on the new section as being a reason for changing the route is bull crap. Who ever heard of such nonsense?

As far as the 8 lanes. Its not over done. Of course there are arguments that the DOT money should have been spent on mass transit as oppose to more concrete highways, but if they are going to build the loop, it needs to be done the right way because im sure there will be increased traffic after FedEx, HondaJet and other future companies open. Quite frankly it saves the state more money if they go ahead now and build the extra lane instead of waiting 10 or 15 years down the road to add a new lane that will be more costly to build by that time. And I disagree with the Charlotte Observers comments that its going to take DECADES before the loop sees over 100,000 cars a day.

[gman430]

The same people who say this loop is needed are going to be the first ones complaining about the increased sprawl that comes with it. However, I will say that it was smart for the DOT to go ahead and make the road four lanes each way instead of two or three.

[MazdaStrider]

They are finally starting to change signs along the Southwest Loop and along the I-40 route. it should be done by July (this was on news tonight).

I-40's route will overtake the Business 85 exit signs.. from Exit 212 (I-73/I-840/US 421) to Exit 227 (I-85/I-840/I-785 and Future US 70) Business 85 exit numbers (36-44) will be eliminated.

I-73 exit numbers will run from Exit 95 (I-85/I-73/US 220) to Exit 103 (I-40/I-840) ***hope that is the true mileage count for I-73***

US 421 will move on the SW loop with I-73, then run along I-85 to bypass

In the future, US 70 will relocate from I-40/US 29 split (Former exit 127 or 39, future exit 221B) and run along I-40 to the East Loop exit (former exit 44, future exit 227) then run north along I-840, then return to their original route.

And finally, the Eastern Loop from US 70 to US 29 will begin construction in 2012... land purchases will happen this year. wow. I cant wait til the entire loop is finished.. seriously.. our loop is just half done.

[cityboi]

Its just crazy the are switching I-40 back. The whole purpose of the loop was to ease congestion through death valley. DOT talks about complaints from confused motorist. I know why they were confused. Once I-40 was put on the loop, they didnt immediately replace the old I-40 shields with business 40. Thats DOT's fault for the confusion. They should have had the new shields made and ready to place before the loop southwestern loop even opened. So yea it can be confusing when you have two segments both designated as I-40. Its just a lame excuse for switching I-40 back. From what I heard is that the real reason for the switch was the loss of some business on the old route plus the convention center and coliseum would have less visibility. They wont admit that to the taxpayers though.

I also heard there is going to be a massive stack bridge interchange where the loop will cross over hwy 29 in north Greensboro. They increased the size of the interchange which has led to about 9 house that will have to be demolished.

[JerseyBoy]

I also heard there is going to be a massive stack bridge interchange where the loop will cross over hwy 29 in north Greensboro. They increased the size of the interchange which has led to about 9 house that will have to be demolished.

What's the purpose? It's not like US 29 is heavily traveled, let alone the eastern half of the beltway (I-840). A waste of money, in my opinion... A stack would have been better at the I-40/I-73/I-840 interchange near PTI or at the I-40/I-85/I-840 interchange in eastern Guilford County where traffic volumes are high and high-speed ramps would be necessary. A simple of modified cloverleaf should suffice up there.

Also, am I the only one that finds the Bryan Boulevard and Old Oak Ridge Road interchange near the airport to be a joke? Wasn't it described to be on par with interchanges (Spaghetti Junction) in Atlanta?

[cityboi]

What's the purpose? It's not like US 29 is heavily traveled, let alone the eastern half of the beltway (I-840). A waste of money, in my opinion... A stack would have been better at the I-40/I-73/I-840 interchange near PTI or at the I-40/I-85/I-840 interchange in eastern Guilford County where traffic volumes are high and high-speed ramps would be necessary. A simple of modified cloverleaf should suffice up there.

Also, am I the only one that finds the Bryan Boulevard and Old Oak Ridge Road interchange near the airport to be a joke? Wasn't it described to be on par with interchanges (Spaghetti Junction) in Atlanta?

The interchange in west Greensboro I-840/73/40 does have one stack bridge and a few fly over ramps.

any way here is the planned I-840/Hwy 29 stack interchange.

[blburton]

"Overbuilding" the interchange now isn't really a bad idea... IMO, it's thinking forward to the growth that not just eastern Guilford County/western Alamance County has seen/is poised to see, but growth statewide. The other important thing to consider is that eventually...(maybe within our lifetimes), Hwy 29 will be a continuous limited access highway/freeway from Greensboro to DC, at least. It would essentially serve as an alternative to I-95 and help improve the driving time from Atlanta to DC, as well.

As far as the other interchanges on Painter Blvd go, they all seem so sprawled out and expansive that they don't even really "stack". I guess considering the topography of the Piedmont and the available space on either side of the city, it'd cost more money to move the hills and construct spaghetti junctions vs using what's already there (or what's not for that matter).

The interchange in west Greensboro I-840/73/40 does have one stack bridge and a few fly over ramps.

any way here is the planned I-840/Hwy 29 stack interchange.

[MazdaStrider]

Yeah I agree with the dude who said its DOT's fault for not immediately replacing I-40 shields when they were moving the interstate onto the loop. DOT likes to take too much time for some reason. And yeah it is also true that business is declining when I-40 business was created.

The another massive interchange on I-840 and US 29 is going to be interesting. Too bad that the future I-785 will have to exit itself. I hate when they build interchanges to have a future interstate just exit itself. Much like I-73 at the southwest Greensboro (The Maze) interchange. But we wont have a massive interchange until the parts past US 29 was built, so it will be another few years.

DOT is probably doing a job for our motorists.. so that they can qualify for the money to REBUILD the Death Valley. Seriously. They SHOULD have rebuilt the Death Valley part along with the I-40 reconstruction a few years ago. Hopefully they will rebuilt the Death Valley like the ones in Durham (I-85 reconstruction)