Greensboro Urban Loop (Painter Boulevard)

[blburton]

Newest Portion of Greensboro Urban Loop to Open Thursday February 21, 2008.... per GSO News and Record.

Didn't the first portion of the loop open in late February of 2004?

[Roadgeek]

Newest Portion of Greensboro Urban Loop to Open Thursday February 21, 2008.... per GSO News and Record.

Didn't the first portion of the loop open in late February of 2004?

Actually, it really did open February 21, 2004.

[kdub1]

The Triad (and Guilford County specifically) is a lesson in how not to number highways.

You can blame the DOT for being completely interstate sign happy (I-795 in the eastern portion of the state for example). All they should have done was the following:

1) Strip the old I-85 between the Urban Loop and I-40 of interstate status. The road would be known as US 29/70 with US 29's mileage and exit numbers being used for the I-85/UL, Holden Road, US 220, Rehobeth Church Road, and Randleman Avenue exits.

2) Not only keep I-40 on its current alignment but use that interstate's exit numbers from the old I-85 (US 29/70) merge to the eastern end of the Urban Loop.

3) Rerouting I-73 and I-85 were cool with me since it will provide VA travelers an easy way around the city without having to put up with coliseum traffic (73) and currently lets out of towners avoid Death Valley (85).

4) I'm less certain on the 840 destination but is okay since the state won't run out of even numbered 3dis soon thanks to a) NCDOT deciding to name the entire Outer Loop I-540 in 2002 instead of I-640 as was originally planned and b) the subsequent flap over the Western and Northwestern Wake Freeway portions of that loop not being able to use interstate shields since those parts of the OL will become toll roads. Personally, I would have given the western portion of the UL an I-73/885 designation using 885's exit numbers since I-73 would pretty much exit itself off the loop in both NW and SW Greensboro. I-885 would end at the I-785/US 29 intersection with 785 using the UL's eastern portion.

NCDOT end this boulevard madness in Greensboro!!!!!! Lets also kill these confusing business interstates too

I wholeheartedly agree with you as well. It makes no sense for a business interstate to begin a few miles after another one ended given that both "business" interstates are freeways. The distance is two miles for 85 and six for 40, especially when the state spent years widening I-40 up to ten lanes between Business 40 past Sandy Ridge Road and the old I-85. As a result, I personally refuse to refer to either the old I-85 or the existing I-40 after Thursday as "Business" 85 or 40.

[ezcheese]

Did they open it early today? They changed the signage at the split at Mt. Hope Church Road today. I noticed it on my way home from Burlington this afternoon.

[JerseyBoy]

ezcheese, I believe the DOT changed the signs to eliminate confusion for commuters on opening day. I don't think they would want to change the signs tomorrow IMO.

For those who are confused by this asinine plan by the DOT, I have made the following map:

[Roadgeek]

I took a ride on the new part this afternoon. You can take a look at the pictures I took here.

[B L U E]

I took a ride on the new part this afternoon. You can take a look at the pictures I took here.

Wow I'm so excited for Greensboro but can't wait till Winston-Salem loop is completed

[luvdowntowngso]

Nice pictures Roadgeek! Now if everyone could get use to calling it the "Urban Loop" or "I-840 Beltway". Nothing

against (Mr. Painter) but "Painter Blvd." sounds so small town.

[blburton]

Hell... Painter Expressway, anyone? Signs would be so much clearer and less cluttery if they removed the Business I-85/40 signs!!

The western/southwestern portion of the loop provides great access to Charlotte and points south and west for folks living in W, NW, and SW Guilford County. Once the I-785/840 multiplex is completed to US 29, those in northern and eastern Guilford and points north can enjoy these same benefits. I acutally commend the DOT for thinking ahead and making the new portion of the loop 7 to 10 lanes wide. The land through which the freeway traverses is highly populated.

Is the freeway lit throughout?

How is traffic at the old I-40/Wendover Avenue interchange? I personally think the interchange at new I-40 should have been designed as a SPUI...

Nice pictures Roadgeek! Now if everyone could get use to calling it the "Urban Loop" or "I-840 Beltway". Nothing

against (Mr. Painter) but "Painter Blvd." sounds so small town.

[JerseyBoy]

Great photos Roadgeek!

This whole plan for Greensboro's future interstates makes me beyond pissed. How the planners at NCDOT would think of something so stupid and 'small-townish', let alone approve it, is something I'll never understand.

[orulz]

Great photos Roadgeek! On my trip to Raleigh next weekend I look forward to finally driving on it.

This whole plan for Greensboro's future interstates makes me beyond pissed. How the planners at NCDOT would think of something so stupid and 'small-townish', let alone approve it, is something I'll never understand.

Small townish? What? I think that's absurd.

It's freeway designations people. Actually I the green 40 / green 85 thing makes a lot of sense to me. The 73 dogleg is the only part of this plan I don't like, but then again I think 73 is a mostly superfluous pork barrel project in the first place.

[JerseyBoy]

Orulz, why do you think it is absurd?

It has been my experience driving throughout the many miles of interstates in this country that travelers will purposely avoid the business interstates because of the perception that they are two-lane, one-horse-town roads that are congested with local traffic. One only has to look at the fiasco Spartanburg, SC had when SCDOT signed the old I-85 route as Business 85 and the drop off in revenue that businesses along that road incurred.

[Creasy336]

Okay I've put some thought into this. Painter Blvd from I-840 to the area near Rock Creek Dairy Rd should simply be signed "Greensboro Bypass". This allows people to know they are bypassing the city that they've seen mileage signs for from 50+ miles out. I do fear what the green interstate designation will do for the already blighted areas along south elm-eugene.

Okay here we go....I will easily fix this interstate numbering mess.

1) Simply rename Green 40 from Randleman Rd to I-40 near the airport to I-340 this works because it doesn't connect to another main line interstate.

2) Go ahead and sign I-785 from the US 29 split to mainline I-85/I-40 in the future it can follow the northwest section of Painter Blvd.

3) I suggest routing US 70 along Wendover Av for it's entirety.

I hope this isn't too complicated

[ChiefJoJo]

I'm not really sure why there is such a big fuss over the name of the road and the signing of green 85 and green 40.

As far as the naming goes, NCDOT planners/engineers don't sit around and come up with names. They are usually named by bigtime politicians, or historical figures (Jefferson Davis Highway).

On the numbering, what else would work better?

1) Simply rename Green 40 from Randleman Rd to I-40 near the airport to I-340 this works because it doesn't connect to another main line interstate.

2) Go ahead and sign I-785 from the US 29 split to mainline I-85/I-40 in the future it can follow the northwest section of Painter Blvd.

3) I suggest routing US 70 along Wendover Av for it's entirety.

(1) Green 85 already goes through Lexington, so it made sense to continue it through Death Valley--same with Green 40 at Wendover, etc.

(2) I-785 can't happen until 29 is massively upgraded to modern standards (and I suspect that is years away from happening). The feds require high standards to be met for NEW interstate designations. We all know plenty of older interstates in the NE US are in terrible shape, so if it was initially designated in the 50s & 60s, there is no retroactive redesignation.

I agree with orulz that I-73 is nothing more than a political pork barrel project. I-74 even more so.

[jasoniman24]

Hell... Painter Expressway, anyone? Signs would be so much clearer and less cluttery if they removed the Business I-85/40 signs!!

The western/southwestern portion of the loop provides great access to Charlotte and points south and west for folks living in W, NW, and SW Guilford County. Once the I-785/840 multiplex is completed to US 29, those in northern and eastern Guilford and points north can enjoy these same benefits. I acutally commend the DOT for thinking ahead and making the new portion of the loop 7 to 10 lanes wide. The land through which the freeway traverses is highly populated.

Is the freeway lit throughout?

How is traffic at the old I-40/Wendover Avenue interchange? I personally think the interchange at new I-40 should have been designed as a SPUI...

I didn't notice any lighting on the new freeway. Looks like they could use a few of the tall lights in the interchange of I-40/85 bus 85 near Groometown Rd. It is a nice freeway though, it helps that there is only one interchange between the I-40 bus 40 split, and the I-85 interchange. Another quick point, why not name the freeway to freeway interchanges? ( like the Tom Moreland Interchange in Atlanta).

[rooster8]

I'm not really sure why there is such a big fuss over the name of the road and the signing of green 85 and green 40.

It's a road geek thing

Drove it tonight. It was nice to avoid Death Valley, and the inevitable backup where it went from 3 lanes to 2 right after Four Seasons (going east).

[Creasy336]

I-785 can't happen until 29 is massively upgraded to modern standards (and I suspect that is years away from happening). The feds require high standards to be met for NEW interstate designations. We all know plenty of older interstates in the NE US are in terrible shape, so if it was initially designated in the 50s & 60s, there is no retroactive redesignation.

I was planning on using I-785 on existing Green 85 east of US 29 only. I would tie it in with the proposed I-785 once that came online. I guess I too am a road geek.

[StevenRocks]

I rode on the new section tonight in both directions. I was very impressed with the transitions except for how it connects to the section of US 220 headed to Asheboro. Seems like there should be a way to go both east and west where the road intersects with Business 85 and I-40/85, or at least some more effective signage to explain what's going on.

I wonder how long it'll take for the sprawl on Wendover to extend to the new I-40 exit. I'll give it three years tops.

[kdub1]

I'm not really sure why there is such a big fuss over the name of the road and the signing of green 85 and green 40.

On the numbering, what else would work better?

(1) Green 85 already goes through Lexington, so it made sense to continue it through Death Valley--same with Green 40 at Wendover, etc.

(2) I-785 can't happen until 29 is massively upgraded to modern standards (and I suspect that is years away from happening). The feds require high standards to be met for NEW interstate designations. We all know plenty of older interstates in the NE US are in terrible shape, so if it was initially designated in the 50s & 60s, there is no retroactive redesignation.

There's a big fuss because: 1) most business interstates aren't limited access highways. That only started in the 1980s when California ran out of even numbered 3 digit interstates. Sacramento had its I-880 stripped when the state decided to upgrade CA 17 to interstate standards and label that road 880 (while 480 didn't become eligible until the Embacadero Freeway was demolished after being damaged in the 1989 earthquake). As a result, I-880 became I-80 and I-80 became Business 80. It spread to this part of the country because the old I-40 in Winston had become a rush hour mess by the late '80s. Hence, that bypass. As for Spartanburg, the SCDOT really dropped the ball. Not to mention, a few years ago, local leaders were denied an effort to renumber Bus. 85 as I-685 and 2) NCDOT decided to widen parts of I-40 through Greensboro in 1997. That road had mostly been four lanes wide between the Sandy Ridge Road and Randleman Road exits. The six-year project resulted in the road being anywhere from six to ten lanes long. So, when the DOT decided to downgrade most of that widened stretch of 40 to Business status, it was as if the state was wasting its time in widening the road when they knew that I-40 would be rerouted about halfway at the Urban Loop exit.

I would have actually been okay with the state relabeling the old I-85 as a Business Spur since it actually leads into Greensboro. The 31-mile long Business 85 from Grandover to Davidson County is a Business Loop. As a spur, the old 85 through G'boro would not have connected with the new 85, and would only have single-digit exit numbers. In this scenario, I-40 would have never been rerouted.

I wonder how long it'll take for the sprawl on Wendover to extend to the new I-40 exit. I'll give it three years tops.

Maybe even shorter. Even with the church between the loop and what used to be I-40, I've recently saw some construction being done for some condos.

[JerseyBoy]

This afternoon I finally had the chance to drive the new portion of beltway from Bryan to 40/85 on the eastern side of the city. First of all, here are some own personal photos I got of the new stretch of road (to compliment Roadgeek's great set):

I don't know if anyone else has thought this, but the following photos, that were taken on the recently opened stretch from I-40 to I-85, depict a very ugly roadway, personally. While driving on this I felt somewhat claustrophobic (not a feeling I usually get) due to the hideous retaining walls. I understand that this road goes through many residential neighborhoods and that they were needed, but couldn't they have put in something a little bit more aesthetically pleasing?

[NcSc74]

I don't know if anyone else has thought this, but the following photos, that were taken on the recently opened stretch from I-40 to I-85, depict a very ugly roadway, personally. While driving on this I felt somewhat claustrophobic (not a feeling I usually get) due to the hideous retaining walls. I understand that this road goes through many residential neighborhoods and that they were needed, but couldn't they have put in something a little bit more aesthetically pleasing?

Looks like that stretch of highway in one of those Matrix movies!!!

[Beany]

I hope they plant some vegetation in front of the walls. Like some kind of vine, not Kudzu! Or, maybe some ceder trees.

[JerseyBoy]

I forgot to mention this in my earlier post, but didn't Guilford County ban billboards along the new 85 bypass when it opened in 2004? I noticed 3 or 4 along the South Elm-Eugene interchange on Thursday.

[blburton]

Yes, but billboards are allowed in the city of Greensboro and that section of the loop is actually within the city limits.

I forgot to mention this in my earlier post, but didn't Guilford County ban billboards along the new 85 bypass when it opened in 2004? I noticed 3 or 4 along the South Elm-Eugene interchange on Thursday.

[cityboi]

I hope they plant some vegetation in front of the walls. Like some kind of vine, not Kudzu!

and not the Trumpet Creeper vine with the orange trumpet shaped summer blooms either! Those are very ugly and I see them growing some of the walls on old I-40 and up telephone poles. The landscape should look well manicured like Bryan Blvd.