Greensboro Urban Loop (Painter Boulevard)

[jasoniman24]

They should have put up brick walls similar to the ones on the Beltline in Raleigh, with some sort of low-maintenance evergreen landscaping. When I drive on the stretch near Groometown Rd, I feel like a mouse in a maze.

[cityboi]

I was driving on the loop today (between I-40 & Bryan Blvd) and was quiet surprised that I could see the mountains in Stokes County. The land elevation must be pretty high on that part of the loop. The topography in that part of Greensboro is alot like many areas in Winston-Salem.

[suburban george3]

The Triad (and Guilford County specifically) is a lesson in how not to number highways.

NC DOT is going to resign/renumber the interstates in Greensboro due to confusion and complaints. Business 40 will be turned back into I-40. Here is a listing of what they plan to do:

The I-40 relocation plan includes:

• Re-signing the exits along I-40 as Exit 212 (I-40/73) to Exit 227 (I-40/85)
  
• Re-signing the exits along I-73 as Exit 103 (I-73/40 interchange) to Exit 95 (I-73/U.S. 220 interchange); and
  
• Rerouting U.S. 421 to run concurrently with I-73 and parts of I-85.
  

Under the plan, the I-85 Business route and the I-85 exit signs will remain the same, according to the news release.

Will this end the madness/confusion??

Read about it here!

[Durhamite]

NC DOT is going to resign/renumber the interstates in Greensboro due to confusion and complaints. Business 40 will be turned back into I-40. Here is a listing of what they plan to do:

The I-40 relocation plan includes:

• Re-signing the exits along I-40 as Exit 212 (I-40/73) to Exit 227 (I-40/85)
  
• Re-signing the exits along I-73 as Exit 103 (I-73/40 interchange) to Exit 95 (I-73/U.S. 220 interchange); and
  
• Rerouting U.S. 421 to run concurrently with I-73 and parts of I-85.
  

Under the plan, the I-85 Business route and the I-85 exit signs will remain the same, according to the news release.

Will this end the madness/confusion??

Read about it here!

I moved to Greensboro in February (went to college here in the mid-to-late 80's). Greensboro has the BEST interstate (intrastate) network road system in the state and roads around the airport are shaping up nicely. The entire TRIAD roadway connections are superior to Raleigh & Charlotte.

That said, it's a complete 180 with the signage. Mass confusion. I have a friend that lives in Concord (originally from Greensboro) drove up via Winston-Salem (52 to I-40). Totally missed the right exit to Downtown Greensboro (which is not very intuitive), called me in a state of confusion. I've made the same mistake several times traveling I-85 North and on I-40, totally misleading. Hopefully this is a step in the right direction to minimize the madness.

I travel all over the state of NC extensively, especially Raleigh, Charlotte, Greensboro and Wilmington. This is for another topic, but NC needs to focus on 3 metros (and I mean quick)! Charlotte, Raleigh and Wilmington.

The other areas of the state are fine other than routine road maintenance, etc., but the equity distribution formula needs to be be updated to gear these 3 metros for massive road expansions and interconnectivity.

Greensboro is the most comfortable city to navigate in the state.

[cityboi]

apparently there have been traffic noise complaints, so many that they are putting I-40 back on the old route. The southwest loop will change from I-40/I-73 to I-840/I-73. That means the majority of the loop will have an I-840 designation. Personally I think its a bad idea. It defeats the sole purpose for the urban loop which is to move thru traffic around from the city. Now there are going to be bottle necks in death valley again. What a stupid move. Im surprised at how fast this is happening though. Id also like to know why the future I-840 shields havnt changed to I-840? There are also no I-840 exit signs from I-40/85.

[Roadgeek]

I am kind of steamed about this. I have been looking forward to this new I-40 route since 2000. Now it has happened, but now they want to change it back? Can't there be some type of compromise and a better solution to minimize the noise on the new southwestern loop without putting I-40 back in Greensboro and Death Valley?

[Creasy336]

I've never heard of changing the routing of an interstate due to noise complaints. I guess death valley might have to be improved after all. There will be bottlenecks again through death valley, not because of traffic volume, but because of poor design. The use electronic message boards and better signage should help to keep trucks and some through traffic on the southern bypass. VDOT does a good job with its beltway signage around Richmond in some instances giving a map of Richmond in relation to the beltway and the control cities.

[MazdaStrider]

That's lame. NCDOT is returning the I-40 to its old route? I mean, people who live there have to understand that they knew the highway will be constructed near their homes, and they still complain? wow. We should be lucky Greensboro Loop is not Atlanta Beltway (I-285).

This is messed up because if I-40 is going back to its old route, that means I-40 will now exit off the mainline and I-73 will exit off the mainline as well.. which creates 2 left exits (I-40 East to I-73 South and I-73 North to I-40 West).. this interchange will have to be redesigned to maintain straight route..

My suggest to NCDOT: Rebuild the interstate in the Death Valley immediately when money is available, to less bottlenecks later on.

I thought that they should just leave it like this instead. Or maybe redesign an Express I-40 (the current loop with I-73) and retransform the Business 40 into Local I-40 with full signature. It should end this

[IknewIwasright]

How does this effect the developing commercial activity along the new route? Centdev currently has land being cleared for a large shopping center called The Village at S. Elm at S, Elm and the current I-40.

[MazdaStrider]

How does this effect the developing commercial activity along the new route? Centdev currently has land being cleared for a large shopping center called The Village at S. Elm at S, Elm and the current I-40.

I dont think it would affect anthing because the loop is still I-85 in the southern part (would be running with US 421).

[StevenRocks]

I agree that better signage is needed on the loop, but routing I-40 back into the city doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

[jasoniman24]

I think the entire loop should have been signed as I-840. Motorists don't seem to be as confused with I-540 in Raleigh, or I-485 in Charlotte.

[rooster8]

What a dumb plan and a waste of time and money. The new route seems like it takes longer, but you still avoid Death Valley and the bottleneck right after Four Seasons. I'll probably stay on I-840 and whatever they're going to call it especially since people that are passing through the area are likely to follow the I-40 route.

[kdub1]

This plan is no better than the DOT's last one. Why should 421 be relocated? Just because the DOT dropped the ball eight years ago doesn't mean that they should be coming up with another harebrained idea. That highway has nothing to do with the roads in question. The cluster of U.S. highways on old 85 could easily be avoided but state officials don't want any roads going through central Greensboro (after all, they decommissioned NC 6 two years ago).

Also, they are reverting back to what things were before February. If they are that worried about losing federal funding for the Death Valley Bridge replacement, they should truncate "Business" 85 at Death Valley once that bridge is replaced.

apparently there have been traffic noise complaints, so many that they are putting I-40 back on the old route. The southwest loop will change from I-40/I-73 to I-840/I-73. That means the majority of the loop will have an I-840 designation. Personally I think its a bad idea. It defeats the sole purpose for the urban loop which is to move thru traffic around from the city. Now there are going to be bottle necks in death valley again. What a stupid move. Im surprised at how fast this is happening though. Id also like to know why the future I-840 shields havnt changed to I-840? There are also no I-840 exit signs from I-40/85.

In most major metropolitan areas, parent interstates are understood to carry local traffic and through traffic is diverted to 3di loops. Under a more common sense proposal, all Triangle traffic would be directed to I-73 South/I-85 North and all Charlotte/Atlanta/W-S traffic unto I-85 South/I-73 North since control cities would be put on the Urban Loop.

I think the entire loop should have been signed as I-840. Motorists don't seem to be as confused with I-540 in Raleigh, or I-485 in Charlotte.

Problem #1 is, it makes too much sense!

Problem #2 is that after I-485, DOT decided to give loop highways only two directions. The state was originally going to label all of 540 as North/South until they extended the road to U.S. 1. They must have realized that there would have been two I-540 Souths past the U.S. 401 exit--one to the airport and westward and the other actually southward toward the U.S. 64 Bypass. Another thing, when the DOT gave the 840 designation, they lazily did so by designating the whole interstate East/West and restricting it to the northern half of the UL.

[kdub1]

apparently there have been traffic noise complaints, so many that they are putting I-40 back on the old route. The southwest loop will change from I-40/I-73 to I-840/I-73. That means the majority of the loop will have an I-840 designation. Personally I think its a bad idea. It defeats the sole purpose for the urban loop which is to move thru traffic around from the city. Now there are going to be bottle necks in death valley again. What a stupid move. Im surprised at how fast this is happening though. Id also like to know why the future I-840 shields havnt changed to I-840? There are also no I-840 exit signs from I-40/85.

That's DOT for ya...slow. A few weeks ago when I went to eastern Guilford County to pick up some deer, I still saw "To East/West" 40 signs at the Alamance Church Road exit. They were supposed to remove the "to" months ago. Now, of course, all reference to 40 will be removed now along this road.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/growth/tr...ry/1223303.html

Blue Interstate 40 shields will replace Death Valley's green Business 40 signs by the end of the year, and exit numbers will change. Switching the signs will cost about $300,000...There was more than community good will at stake when DOT reversed its I-40 decision.

The 15-mile Death Valley route lost its eligibility for interstate maintenance funds -- a major federal money source -- when it was renamed Business 40.

Maybe, the state should have thought about including bridge replacement when they were busy widening I-40 through the western part of the city. I now have to wonder if the move of I-40 back to its old alignment is just a temporary ploy--i.e., once the new bridge is built, the green 40 shields reappear, or the road gets renamed as a 3di. spur.

I knew that the original plan to reroute 40 via the UL would distort the road's mileage between the Triangle and Wilmington.

Id also like to know why the future I-840 shields havnt changed to I-840? There are also no I-840 exit signs from I-40/85.

Maybe, it's not considered a "complete" road, but my understanding is that the "Future" signs should only go up if a 3di ends at a non-federal highway--earlier this decade, I-485 in Charlotte was tagged with Future 485 between I-77 and NC 49/160 (the future signs now exist north of I-85 to NC 16) and 540 was considered to be Future 540 when the Outer Loop ended at various Raleigh roads. The Future shields went away on 540 when it was extended to U.S. 1.

[JerseyBoy]

That's DOT for ya...slow. A few weeks ago when I went to eastern Guilford County to pick up some deer, I still saw "To East/West" 40 signs at the Alamance Church Road exit. They were supposed to remove the "to" months ago. Now, of course, all reference to 40 will be removed now along this road.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/growth/tr...ry/1223303.html

Maybe, the state should have thought about including bridge replacement when they were busy widening I-40 through the western part of the city. I now have to wonder if the move of I-40 back to its old alignment is just a temporary ploy--i.e., once the new bridge is built, the green 40 shields reappear, or the road gets renamed as a 3di. spur.

I knew that the original plan to reroute 40 via the UL would distort the road's mileage between the Triangle and Wilmington.

Maybe, it's not considered a "complete" road, but my understanding is that the "Future" signs should only go up if a 3di ends at a non-federal highway--earlier this decade, I-485 in Charlotte was tagged with Future 485 between I-77 and NC 49/160 (the future signs now exist north of I-85 to NC 16) and 540 was considered to be Future 540 when the Outer Loop ended at various Raleigh roads. The Future shields went away on 540 when it was extended to U.S. 1.

However, it ends at US 70. I assume that is a federal highway? This DOT, I tell ya...

[MazdaStrider]

As of today, they still havent changed the signs in West Greensboro.. wonder what took them so long.. i am sure they are getting us people confused already............

[cityboi]

well switching I-40 back to the old route is still the stupidest thing I ever heard of. Supposedly this was done because motorist were confused about the new I-40 loop. But with me being a cartographer you hear things. I heard it was because the Greensboro Visitors and Convention Bureau raised a big stink in Raleigh about it because of loss of business near the Koury Convention Center due to decreased traffic. I just updated the Guilford County map not too long ago and now the maps are going to be wrong. Just more confusion for the motorists. Having I-40 signs on both the old route and on the beltway doesnt help matters either. Why couldnt they just name the whole loop I-840 in the first place?

[Creasy336]

Earlier in this thread I mentioned the significance of the decreased traffic due to I-40 being along the beltway. Whats ironic about the whole thing is that having I-40 being routed along its original route will lead to death valley being reconstructed anyway. There will always be a traffic jam and numerous hazards where US 29 (O'Henry Blvd) intersects I-40 due to the poor design of the interchange. For a simple fix i would create an exit at Patton Ave for traffic headed to and from MLK, this would allow NCDOT to close those dangerous on and off ramps from MLK. With the new interchange at Patton Ave the whole I-40/US 29 interchange would run smooth and be safe without the costly rebuild involving the whole area to be reconstructed. (1 flyover from US 29 South to I-40 East would be nice though )

[MazdaStrider]

yeah i agree, the death valley will have to be reconstructed or there will be more traffic troubles in the future. They should at least widen I-40 to 6 lanes with some exit only lanes... the US 29 interchange.. oh my gosh needs to be rebuilt.. especially the bridge heading west on I-40 which is only 2 lanes opposed to 3 going east. The business 85 signs should be eliminated because that part of road (from I-73 & US 421 and I-85 split to I-40) is already interstate-qualified AND we have other business 85 going to HP in less than 2 miles.. that doesnt make any sense to me.

Speaking of I-40 exits, they should just rebuilt the Randleman Rd and I-40/Bus 85 split.. that was one of the worst bottlenecks.. and as well as MLK dr and US 29 interchange... both interchanges need to be rebuilt..

I dont know what's going on with NCDOT's planning or what they were thinking lately, but apparently they did not do great jobs in planning roads lately.. especially in other cities such as Charlotte and Raleigh. What a disappointment. Whoever works in NCDOT needs to be fired or laid off and get somebody who have an GOOD sense in planning roads.

[MazdaStrider]

Earlier in this thread I mentioned the significance of the decreased traffic due to I-40 being along the beltway. Whats ironic about the whole thing is that having I-40 being routed along its original route will lead to death valley being reconstructed anyway. There will always be a traffic jam and numerous hazards where US 29 (O'Henry Blvd) intersects I-40 due to the poor design of the interchange. For a simple fix i would create an exit at Patton Ave for traffic headed to and from MLK, this would allow NCDOT to close those dangerous on and off ramps from MLK. With the new interchange at Patton Ave the whole I-40/US 29 interchange would run smooth and be safe without the costly rebuild involving the whole area to be reconstructed. (1 flyover from US 29 South to I-40 East would be nice though )

I like ur idea about Patton Ave interchange, but the problem is.. there are buildings along that road. I think they should just eliminate 2 exits each way (one MLK and US 29) and rebuilt one interchange for both. Like the C/D lanes beginning at Patton Ave Bridge, with the exit off from the right to MLK and the rest of the road defaults into US 29. (that is for going east on I-40).. as for I-40 going West, same thing. one C/D lanes with one lane going into US 29 north, and the rest defaults into MLK dr (goes under the relocated US 29 south bridge to merge with the ramp coming from US 29) Then from MLK to I40, for east: turn and have 2 options.. go to US 29 or I-40 East.... as of west, eliminate the ramp to I-40 west before going under US 29 south bridge then build a new ramp connecting to US 29 south right before it merges with I-40 West. As for US 29 south to MLK or I-40 East, one or two lane ramp exit from right (eliminate left exit to MLK) and the options is: flyover to I-40 East or MLK Dr. to end at the light where the new ramp is. The flyover to I-40 east will merge with the ramp from MLK to I-40 east before merging with I-40 going east. As for the US 29 bridge, relocate it to where the old ramps (from the same left exit ramp from US 29 to MLK merging with the ramp from I-40 west to MLK and MLK to I-40 west between I-40 west and US 29 south bridges).. and I-40 through lanes would have 6 through lanes.. 3+3.

This would clean up that area. Even if its costly, at least most bridges in that area needs to be replaced soon.. (with the exception of I-40 east bridge crossing over US 29 which is in a good shape and was rebuilt a few years ago)

[MazdaStrider]

That was my idea of clearing up Death Valley area..

Speaking of Business 85.Us 29 south and I-40 split near Randleman Rd, even though NCDOT is currently replacing the I-40 east bridge over Bus 85, I still feel the entire interchange needs to be rebuilt. My idea of interchange rebuilt:

Make I-40 8 lanes with exit only lane in both directions between Bus 85 and US 29 splits (including Elm Eugene St)

Eliminate Randleman Rd left exit from I-40 East and make the exit coming off from right side (with Bus 85 exit) where the exit would go to either Bus 85 south or Randleman Rd by acrossing Bus 85 and merging with the new ramp from Bus 85 north to Randleman Rd.

Eliminate Randleman Rd left merge from Bus 85 and relocate the I-40 lanes going west and build another bridge to go across Bus 85 (the Bus 85 will exit off from the right instead of left and go under I-40) *** Similiar design to the PAtterson ST interchange from I-40, exit 216

Relocate both directions of I-40 to the large median (where the left exit from I-40 and entrance to Bus 85 ramps are located at) and build a large bridge for Randleman Rd to go across all lanes of I-40/Bus 85 merging and spliting...

Ramps from Bus 85 North should exit off from right for I-40 west (flyover) or Randleman Rd.

Ramps from Randleman Rd to I-40 west or Bus 85 have choices to go to Bus 85 south (ramp to merge with Bus 85, going under I-40 bridge *both directions*) and the other ramp connecting to I-40 West.

Lastly, The interchange with Elm Eugene St should be converted to SPUI. Have you seen the traffic there? its bad.

[Creasy336]

The whole issue I have with a costly rebuild of that section between Randleman Rd and the US 29 interchange is the whole purpose of the Greensboro bypass was to keep interstate traffic flowing through the Greensboro area without NCDOT having to reconstruct the death valley interchange and modernize that section. I said all along that section should have been reconstructed similar to Durham's I-85 rather then building a southern beltway especially after I-40 was widened past Four Seasons Mall. That section was the state's 3rd busiest strectch of interstate and with that amount of traffic pouring through daily the area surrounding the freeway could have drawn businesses and retail capitalizing effectively revitalizing the area.

Whats done is done now so my thoughts are the Patton Av interchange along with the improvements mentioned earlier would go a long way towards making this section up to interstate standards without wasting a large amount of taxpayer dollars.

To further clean this area up, I would route US 70 along Wendover Ave through completely Greensboro. I would sign the route as I-40/US 29/US 421 Preddy Freeway (PTI--Winston-Salem). I would install more electronic message boards to alert people about road conditions giving them an option on which route to take through Greensboro. The Greensboro Beltway would be signed I-685 completely around (ATL-I-285, CLT-I-485, GSO-I-685).

[MazdaStrider]

I agree. The beltway should just be resigned to I-685 all around. sucks we can not do anything to help.. NCDOT... oh well.

[gsoboi27]

I'm pretty new to these forums, but I've been checking out alot about what people have said about the Urban Loop. I created a quick sketch of how the beltway should be configured IMO. What I did for the most part was sign the entire loop as I-840, placed I-40 back in its old location, and extended I-785 down towards High Point to eliminate the two confusing Business 85s. What do you guys think?

I promise you guys, the sketch is nothing special. I left out the US Routes such as 220, 29 and 70 to make it look less confusing.