Atlanta VS Charlotte

[A2]

I used to live in Atlanta too, and actually support the metro exclusively for one of the banks here in CLT. Here is what I miss:

More Restraunts and Better Nightlife and to some degree better shopping (I live in Southpark now, so I can't complain to much, as I get what I need)

One thing I hate and do not miss is the obvious.

THE TRAFFIC !

Even when I go back I DRED it. I have found a solution though. Avoid driving North/South and stick to East/West routes. They seem to work when it is possible to drive this way to get to your desired location.

A2

[MAJIKMAN]

quote from Spectacle21

I still love the city and think its rather impressive. However, it is a bit overrated and has it flaws....but what city doesn't? I enjoy riding the MARTA & having the option of going to an entirely DIFFERENT place (i.e. Buckhead, Alpharetta, Decatur) to get away from campus...but yet, still be in Atlanta.

For my native home of Charlotte.....I love it! Its my home. I admire the fact that its a very progressive city and development here is out of control. I feel as though Charlotte can do more to with becoming a more ENTERTAINMENT STYLE city. It kinda sucks that I'll be in my 30s-40s when Charlotte grows into a more developed phase. One thing I don't like about Charlotte is that the whole city feels THE SAME. Although we have our UPTOWN, SOUTHPARK, UNIVERSITY AREA, etc.....it all feels the same. Its just something we need to work on more. We also need MORE shopping destinations! For a city our size, its pitiful to have to alternate between 4-5 malls....and only frequent 2 b/c of distance & demographics

I can see where Spectacle is coming from I used to live in Charlotte some years back. And now that I live in Greenville I have the luxury of being able to travel between the two. The way I see it is that Charlotte, like Greenville, seem like one continuous area opposed to Atlanta's seemingly broken up manner. In Atlanta there does seem to be certain areas, distinct district. Which gives the city a more

cosmo feel. And like someone said it is over rated.

Well, I have found this to be a failing of many Charlotteans.  They rarely bother to see what lays just beyond the city limits.  Or even in their own city as anything North of the Brookshire freeway or Independence Blvd is rarely experienced  by this lot.  I recommend a trip to the Asian Mall, Central Ave, West Blvd, etc.  And one only has to go to the Lake Norman area to experience a completely different feel than what is found in Southeast Charlotte (what most people identify as Charlotte). Gastonia, Concord, Rock Hill, etc all offer unique experiences as well.  And if you include the amount of territory that is encompased by the Atlanta metro, the list grows again.  You don't know how many people I know that see Charlotte as just downtown and areas 4, 5 & 6 and yes, that is the same dull wasteland that you would find in many cities.  I assume you might fall into this lot given that you only ship at SouthPark and Carolina Place based on your description. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But monsoon has a point to in saying that people in places, not just charlotte, Kind of get lock in an area. Then start complaining that there bored. Saying I wish that there was something to do. I know we have people who live in the Greenville area who do this. Some have been in the area for but don't know what here.

[charlotte_bon_vivant]

Here is what I miss:

More Restraunts and Better Nightlife and to some degree better shopping (I live in Southpark now, so I can't complain to much, as I get what I need)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The nightlife and dining scene in Charlotte is seriously lacking. I'm hoping that will improve, but for now... Charlotte could really use a Richard Blais. A chef who makes amazing food that everyone follows around wondering what he/she will do next. Charlotte also needs a great club. The clubs and bars here tend to seem more like collage bars.

I have been very disaapointed with the shopping in Charlotte. Don't get me wrong, it's nice. But I shop a lot and for me that means either I order online or take a trip somewhere. For me and me only, I can't find most of what I need and want here in Charlotte.

[Lady Celeste]

I have been very disaapointed with the shopping in Charlotte. Don't get me wrong, it's nice. But I shop a lot and for me that means either I order online or take a trip somewhere. For me and me only, I can't find most of what I need and want here in Charlotte.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not extremely familiar with Charlotte's retail and fashion scene but I would assume that it was very good. Especially with all those major companies located there. Surely retail has kept up with Charlotte's ever expanding amount of disposable income. The only oddity I have noted was there there is no Saks there. I can't understand that.

Girly what is the boutique shopping experience like there? Is the Southpark Mall the place to go? Are there boutiques for Chanel, Giorgio Armani, LV, Jimmy Choo, Versace or Cartier/Tiffany? Also, while we are on fashion and shopping, what is the fashion scene like in Charlotte? I ask these questions not to show a difference between the two cities but rather gauge the shopping scene in Charlotte.

In Texas you have Dallas, Houston and San Antonio......San Antonio is a large city but it's shopping experience is not the same as Dallas because....generally speaking....the average San Antonian doesn't dress the same as an average Dallasite. If people aren't buying then stores aren't going to come. This is not a bad thing though. Different cities have difference styles and modes of dress. Some have a casual style and others have a more fashion consious style of dress. New York is the epitome of fashion. I am usually a dressed person as I prefer a polished look to a casual one....but from what I hear from New Yorkers, in New York City I would blend into the crowd because there are just so many women who dress the same or even more polished than I do.

I guess it's all in the style of the city.

[A2]

LC I live at Southpark and can tell you first hand the shopping is very good. Granted it is not Chicago, NYC, or even Atlanta, but it is not lame. Here are some great names that are at SP, Just in the mall.

Cache'

Anthropologie

Bob Ellis

Burberry

Cole Haan

Club Libby

Lu Frontgate

Kate Spade

Janie and Jack

Kenneth Cole

Lacoste

Lindt Chocolate

L'Occitane

Louis Vuitton

Origins

Sigrid Olsen

Salon Cielo & Spa

Sur La Table,

Tommy

Bahama and Tumi.

Plus the obvious biggies.

Nordstrom

Niemun Marcus

Belk

Macy's (soon to be)

I can also tell you that Saks in looking into some dowtown space right by Spirt Square. There are serious negotiations in progress to have them land a spot dtwn.Here are some other destinations that might peak your interest JUST around Southpark:

Phillips Place

Phillips Place is Charlotte

[Lady Celeste]

Okay so Southpark is like Perimeter. I'll have to wait for Girly to explain herself.....it seems like Charlotte has some nice shopping options.

I will ask you A2.....how many malls compete with Southpark? When I say compete, I mean they offer the same store mix.

Edit: Nevermind for the second question. I see that the other shopping locations offer variety to Southpark.

[A2]

Okay so Southpark is like Perimeter. I'll have to wait for Girly to explain herself.....it seems like Charlotte has some nice shopping options.

Yes, but on a smaller scale. Personally I love Perimeter in ATL and stay there everytime I am in town. If not there, I LOVE the Ritz in Buckhead. It is soooo much cleaner and Nicer than the one dtwn. I also like Lennox and Phipps for shopping. I think Atlanta has many great shopping options because it is much larger (in its metro population) than any other city in the SE (outside of Miami, Houston, and Dallas)

That is why large retailers and boutiques are drawn to ATL over cities like Raleigh, Charlotte, Orlando, Memphis, New Orleans etc etc. I think the marketing departments of some of the more well known high end stores are finally branching out and saying to themselves. "Damn, we better focus on those up and coming cities in the SE since they are exploding in population, and have the median income to support our bottom line". Used to, high end stores would look for cities that could have a regional draw to their respective corner of the US. In Atlanta's case they made the cut EASILY as most retailers knew they could draw people from Chatanooga, Birmingham, Macon, Greenville, etc etc... if they plopped their stores down in a large centrally located city such as ATL. To me it is all economics. NOW, you have a truly interesting phenomena happening with a massive poplulation shift that is drawing millions to other cities OUTSIDE of Atlanta that large retailers are having to pay attention too. Cities like Charlotte, Raleigh, Jacksonville, Orlando, and Tampa are really heating up on the national scene both for a favorable business climate and because people just want to move out of the NE. And with other options Atlanta is not the ONLY BIG city in the SE to choose from. Retailers are finally catching on, and putting in the stores. Charlotte is a great example of this shift in business. Now, I still will agree with girly that Atlanta's shopping is better, but the shopping in CLT is only getting better. ATLANTA WILL ALWAYS BE ONE OF THE LARGEST METROS IN THE SOUTH, and for that reason will always attract high end retail and will be able to retain the wonderful shopping it has, but for the first time in history retailers, and hospitality leaders (including restraunts) are opening their eyes to the ripe promise land that lies before them.

On the idea that Charlotte's restraunts are not that great, I have to disagree. It is also not to the level of Atlanta, but it has to be at the top of the list when compared to metros of similar size at or around MSA's of 2-3Million. For one Johnston & Whales. Not to mention the fact that the restraunt count in dtwn has nearly doubled in less than one decade. Now that is what I call growth. With an additional 8 residentiual towers and more mixed use moving to downtown the count is only getting better. Plus the density of uptown will be stggering in the next ten years.

Come on up LC,

WE'D LOVE TO HAVE YA' !!!

B)

A2

[Lady Celeste]

Come on up LC,

WE'D LOVE TO HAVE YA' !!!

B)

A2

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I really appreciate your invite. I look forward to visiting the wonderful city of Charlotte.

I already have a friend who was relocated via his job from New York City to Charlotte. It's been years since I have talked with him but the last time I bumped into him at Lord and Taylor in Atlanta (oddly enough), I asked him how did he like Charlotte and he said he loved it. This is from a native New Yorker. If he loves it then I'm sure Charlotte has alot to recommend it.

Perhaps one of you nice Charlotteans can give me some great advice as to where to stay and what to do. I could look it up but there is nothing like getting things to do from people who are really in the know. Maybe I can also take a jaunt up to Lake Norman........I'm a sucker for water.

p.s.- maybe the Southpark are will be similar to the Perimeter Center area. When Perimeter Mall was first developed noone imagined that it would spur yet another edge city. Hey, you guys can call it SouthPark Center. Imagine 15 years from now seeing 35 to 40 story buildings in the Southpark area. From a developmental point, I am very bullish on Charlotte.

[charlotte_bon_vivant]

A2, I never once said shopping in Charlotte was lame. I said it was disappointing for me. Without making a list of the things I buy, I will just say it is difficult for me to find things I want or need. Because of that, I often resort to making a trip to Atlanta or ordering mail order/online. I do have one boutique I love, but they're small and don't carry much merchandise. The boutiques here aren't bad for the most part, but they have a very limited selection. Besides, that much boutique shopping in a town that's so car dependent is difficult. Most women I know find one boutique they love and stick with it. Else you find yourself driving all over town.

LC, of the boutiques you asked about Charlotte has Tiffany and LV. You can find the other brands at boutiques, but it's usually something like a bag or shoes. Charlotte is very conservative. Couture and conservative don't usually mix. What I mean by that is women here tend to go for a more traditional look rather than be more daring. There are few "metrosexuals" or fabulously dressed gay men. From my experience individualism and dissention is not valued. People dress very casually here. Like, I dress up when I go to the mall, but most people wear shorts or khaki pants to shop. Here it is about the one status item or label. Say, someone will carry an obvious LV bag or wear a plaid coat, but the outfit will be a shirt and khaki pants. Not that someone has to be head to toe labels, but women don't wear dresses often or pink coats and the men tend to wear a shirt and khaki pants no matter what. Anyway, that's my assesement of fashion and shopping in Charlotte. Oh, one other thing. Asian women in Charlotte are FANTASTIC dressers. All the best dressed women I have seen in Charlotte have been Asian. I don't know why, but they all look so terrific.

Now, before anyone says I'm wrong about my opinion of fashion and shopping in Charlotte, please keep in mind that I live and breathe fashion. My perspective is entirely different from that of normal people.

[spectacle21]

A2, I never once said shopping in Charlotte was lame. I said it was disappointing for me. Without making a list of the things I buy, I will just say it is difficult for me to find things I want or need. Because of that, I often resort to making a trip to Atlanta or ordering mail order/online. I do have one boutique I love, but they're small and don't carry much merchandise. The boutiques here aren't bad for the most part, but they have a very limited selection. Besides, that much boutique shopping in a town that's so car dependent is difficult. Most women I know find one boutique they love and stick with it. Else you find yourself driving all over town.

LC, of the boutiques you asked about Charlotte has Tiffany and LV. You can find the other brands at boutiques, but it's usually something like a bag or shoes. Charlotte is very conservative. Couture and conservative don't usually mix. What I mean by that is women here tend to go for a more traditional look rather than be more daring. There are few "metrosexuals" or fabulously dressed gay men. From my experience individualism and dissention is not valued. People dress very casually here. Like, I dress up when I go to the mall, but most people wear shorts or khaki pants to shop. Here it is about the one status item or label. Say, someone will carry an obvious LV bag or wear a plaid coat, but the outfit will be a shirt and khaki pants. Not that someone has to be head to toe labels, but women don't wear dresses often or pink coats and the men tend to wear a shirt and khaki pants no matter what. Anyway, that's my assesement of fashion and shopping in Charlotte. Oh, one other thing. Asian women in Charlotte are FANTASTIC dressers. All the best dressed women I have seen in Charlotte have been Asian. I don't know why, but they all look so terrific.

Now, before anyone says I'm wrong about my opinion of fashion and shopping in Charlotte, please keep in mind that I live and breathe fashion. My perspective is entirely different from that of normal people.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm gonna have to agree with Girly. Charlotte is a bit more conservative than Atlanta as far as fashion-daring people is concerned. I'm a fashion intern in Atlanta from Charlotte & the thoughts expressed by Girly always go through my head.

[ryancs]

Other than passing through the airport, I've never been to Charlotte. My wife and I moved to Atlanta from Florida last summer, but did consider moving to Charlotte as I have heard good things about the business climate.

From the postings, I sense that Charlotte is a very exciting place to be right now with all the growth. It is still a size of city where growth is noticeable - as opposed to Atlanta where it is large enough and dispersed enough in population and geography that people pay passing attention to new features about town.

Some of the complaints I'm hearing about Charlotte will be hard to rememdy - such as creating diverseness in areas / districts. In todays world, corporate America has a tendency to make different areas / cities undistinct. For instance, I have done quite a bit of traveling with my work and it appears that every major city has the same chain stores, restaurants, etc, etc - kinda boring. Not much new to see. The "new" city of Charlotte is obviously being effected by this. Secondly, Charlotte is known as a banking capital. Bankers aren't known for their eclectivity or originality (I was a former VP of IT for a bank in Florida - trust me, I know!). They tend to play it safe. Creating diversity and difference requires an oddness factor that I don't believe Charlotte will attract easily to the community as long as banking is the major game in town.

In any case, Charlotte is definitely a player in the southeast for business and a nicey'nice lifestyle for families. However it sounds like they need to work on their ability to draw the creative, whacky crowd in to town to break up the corporate ubiquitousness.

[Mr.Marc]

Here are some other destinations that might peak your interest JUST around Southpark:

Phillips Place

Phillips Place is Charlotte

[Mr.Marc]

Other than passing through the airport, I've never been to Charlotte.  My wife and I moved to Atlanta from Florida last summer, but did consider moving to Charlotte as I have heard good things about the business climate.

From the postings, I sense that Charlotte is a very exciting place to be right now with all the growth.  It is still a size of city where growth is noticeable - as opposed to Atlanta where it is large enough and dispersed enough in population and geography that people pay passing attention to new features about town.

Some of the complaints I'm hearing about Charlotte will be hard to rememdy - such as creating diverseness in areas / districts.  In todays world, corporate America has a tendency to make different areas / cities undistinct.  For instance, I have done quite a bit of traveling with my work and it appears that every major city has the same chain stores, restaurants, etc, etc - kinda boring.  Not much new to see.  The "new" city of Charlotte is obviously being effected by this.  Secondly, Charlotte is known as a banking capital.  Bankers aren't known for their eclectivity or originality (I was a former VP of IT for a bank in Florida - trust me, I know!).  They tend to play it safe.  Creating diversity and difference requires an oddness factor that I don't believe Charlotte will attract easily to the community as long as banking is the major game in town.

In any case, Charlotte is definitely a player in the southeast for business and a nicey'nice lifestyle for families.  However it sounds like they need to work on their ability to draw the creative, whacky crowd in to town to break up the corporate ubiquitousness.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So being that you work in corporate banking (The IT area of banking, I suspect), do the bankers of Atlanta tend to play it safe when it comes to style, creativeness, originality, etc.?

[ryancs]

So being that you work in corporate banking (The IT area of banking, I suspect), do the bankers of Atlanta tend to play it safe when it comes to style, creativeness, originality, etc.?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, but I work in a different vertical now, so wouldn't know how Atlanta bankers operate. The point really wasn't about Charlotte bankers vs. bankers elsewhere...just bankers in general and the need for Charlotte to diversify its economy a bit.

A good site to get an idea about what I'm talking about is the CreativeClass.org by Richard Florida. He wrote a book a few years back about the role of creativity in our economy and the importance of the creative class in cities' economic growth. Currently, on his scale, Charlotte ranks 42nd for the number of creative class workers ...Raleigh-Durham ranked 6th...Atlanta was 14th.

I'm only using this as a measure for why Charlotte may appear so uniform from one section of town to the next caused by a new growth city over weighted with financial services industry jobs. They may need to add some freaks and creatives to the mix break it up a bit from the "banker dad, soccer mom" lifestyle. Of course, no offense to either of those groups as I'm more in the dad/mom lifestyle than the hipster creatives.

[monsoon]

Less of than 10% of the CLT metro's jobs are in Banking. I'm not sure why everyone assumes the economy in CLT is not diversified.

The creative class theory put forth by Richard Florida has been thoroughly debunked as garbage because the basic economics behind his theories don't work. You don't get much economic output out of drag queens and metrosexuals who chase after the latest trends and sip de-fatten artifically sweetened frappachinos at the local Starbucks. Cities with the best economies are those with a large middle class population where the parents have to work hard to support families.

[spectacle21]

Someone mentioned earlier that Southpark was Perimeter on a smaller scale. I beg to differ. There's nothing special about Perimeter....its very boring & bland. I would say Southpark is a dialuted version of Phipps....but not Perimeter Mall.

[Lady Celeste]

Someone mentioned earlier that Southpark was Perimeter on a smaller scale. I beg to differ. There's nothing special about Perimeter....its very boring & bland. I would say Southpark is a dialuted version of Phipps....but not Perimeter Mall.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think he or I were refering to looks but rather to store mixture. From what I saw, SouthPark's store base is in line with Perimeter although Perimeter has a slight more cache'.

Edit: I would like to also add that we were also comparing the total area. From what I have read there are plans for office and residential development around SouthPark. If you compare that development to the Perimeter Center area though it is on a much smaller scale. Usually when Mr A2 and I are sharing discourse, our dialogue exceeds merely comparing appearances. We usually go to the heart of development. Isn't that right A2?

[atlrvr]

The creative class theory put forth by Richard Florida has been thoroughly debunked as garbage because  the basic economics behind his theories don't work.  You don't get much economic output out of drag queens and metrosexuals who chase after the latest trends and sip de-fatten artifically sweetened frappachinos at the local Starbucks.  Cities with the best economies are those with a large middle class population where the parents have to work hard to support families.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think this is the single post that I most agree with monsoon on.......I could go on and on about Richard Florida and how his theories only work in the isolated world called academia.

[A2]

I don't think he or I were refering to looks but rather to store mixture. From what I saw, SouthPark's store base is in line with Perimeter although Perimeter has a slight more cache'.

Edit: I would like to also add that we were also comparing the total area. From what I have read there are plans for office and residential development around SouthPark. If you compare that development to the Perimeter Center area though it is on a much smaller scale. Usually when Mr A2 and I are sharing discourse, our dialogue exceeds merely comparing appearances. We usually go to the heart of development. Isn't that right A2? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Absolutely LC. You know how I roll. B)

A2

[ryancs]

I think this is the single post that I most agree with monsoon on.......I could go on and on about Richard Florida and how his theories only work in the isolated world called academia.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Richard Florida definitely has some unusual theories (especially related to gays in the community and their relation to creativity). But to debunk his ideas down to gays, metrosexuals, and drag queens really misses how many people he includes in the "creative class".

From the cover at Amazon.com..."Members include scientists, engineers, architects, educators, writers, artists, and entertainers. He defines this class as those whose economic function is to create new ideas, new technology, and new creative content. In general this group shares common characteristics, such as creativity, individuality, diversity, and merit. The author estimates that this group has 38 million members, constitutes more than 30 percent of the U.S. workforce, and profoundly influences work and lifestyle issues."

This includes those hard working middle to upper middle class families monsoon mentioned (like mine) who would be part of the 38 million - 1/3rd of the U.S. work force.

I really don't think it would hurt Charlotte a bit to draw in more of the workforce from those areas. And, yes, monsoon, like it or not Charlotte is extremely dependent on the financial services industry. New York is #1 in financial assets managed (20 mil pop metro), Charlotte is #2 (2 mil pop metro)...so Charlotte definitly has a high density of jobs in financial services compared to other areas of the country.

[Plasticman]

Richard Florida definitely has some unusual theories (especially related to gays in the community and their relation to creativity).  But to debunk his ideas down to gays, metrosexuals, and drag queens really misses how many people he includes in the "creative class". 

From the cover at Amazon.com..."Members include scientists, engineers, architects, educators, writers, artists, and entertainers. He defines this class as those whose economic function is to create new ideas, new technology, and new creative content. In general this group shares common characteristics, such as creativity, individuality, diversity, and merit. The author estimates that this group has 38 million members, constitutes more than 30 percent of the U.S. workforce, and profoundly influences work and lifestyle issues."

This includes those hard working middle to upper middle class families monsoon mentioned (like mine) who would be part of the 38 million - 1/3rd of the U.S. work force. 

I really don't think it would hurt Charlotte a bit to draw in more of the workforce from those areas.  And, yes, monsoon, like it or not Charlotte is extremely dependent on the financial services industry.  New York is #1 in financial assets managed (20 mil pop metro), Charlotte is #2 (2 mil pop metro)...so Charlotte definitly has a high density of jobs in financial services compared to other areas of the country.

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I keep seeing people throw out Charlotte's metro at 2 Mil. Every list I see shows it between 1.3 and 1.4 mil. just one rank ahead of Nashville who is at 1.3 mil.and far, far behind Atlanta which is well over 4 mil.

[ATLman1]

I keep seeing people throw out Charlotte's metro at 2 Mil.  Every list I see shows it between 1.3 and 1.4 mil.  just one rank ahead of Nashville who is at 1.3 mil.and far, far behind Atlanta which is well over 4 mil.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree. ATL's metro is 5 million I believe or very close to it.

[atlrvr]

I don't debunk Richard Florida based on broad generalizations of the creative class, i debunk him based on his ideas exist in an academic vacuum that assumes that monetary economics aren't important.

[ironchapman]

I agree. ATL's metro is 5 million I believe or very close to it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Accordng to Emporis, who I find reliable for population stats (if nothing else), current lists the population as 419,122 people in the city and 5,034,362 in metropolitan area.

So, we are just above the 5 mil mark.

I'll check the Census site and see if I get similar data.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

and emporis said Charlotte's metro population was over 2 million...