Sports and Convention District (Proposed)

[varider]

https://www.pilotonline.com/government/local/vp-nw-capstone-development-0408-20230410-cajmqd6gxnbbzclzcyj5ie7g6a-story.html
 

Capstone Development of Washington, D.C., led by Norman Jenkins, submitted plans for 933 apartments, which include workforce housing, a 300-room convention center hotel, a restaurant and retail space. The development would replace the existing convention center surface parking lots.

The proposal stated the city would lease the land to a developer, and the city would own and operate parking garages on the site. It’s about three blocks from the Atlantic Park project that recently broke ground.

It’s unclear who requested a delay of the public briefing on the project, or why.

[baobabs727]

I love a good Whodunnit?! I would think that allowing (IF that is what actually happened) competing hotelier interests at the strip to dictate what gets built on 19th street would be neither advisable nor appropriate, especially given the fact that the Convention Center has, indeed, needed a hotel for over a decade.   

 

 

[vdogg]

5 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

I love a good Whodunnit?! I would think that allowing (IF that is what actually happened) competing hotelier interests at the strip to dictate what gets built on 19th street would be neither advisable nor appropriate, especially given the fact that the Convention Center has, indeed, needed a hotel for over a decade.   

 

 

This whole thing is just dumbfounding to me. We have NEVER had a project of this quality, size, and caliber just drop in our laps like this, and we're just going to let some random NIMBY from the RAC start dictating terms? Right now we're getting a lot of proposals because we have at least the *appearance of being open for business. Let's not scare potential partners away by letting our traditional backwoods tribalism rear it's ugly head yet again.

The ONLY reason the RAC is against this is because a convention center hotel takes tourists away from their hotels. That's it. They could care less about the 19th street master plan, most of them have probably never even read the d@mn thing. Give me a break...

[BFG]

A lotta these NIMBY types didn’t even live near the Strip when it was still a sleepy little town that looked more like Sandbridge. They also hate tourists and ironically don’t realize tourism dollars keep their property taxes low. 

I am curious as to how it could affect parking for the Convention Center but I think this is a great project that leads up to the surf park. It’s about time VB moved into the 21st Century. 

[baobabs727]

4 hours ago, vdogg said:

This whole thing is just dumbfounding to me. We have NEVER had a project of this quality, size, and caliber just drop in our laps like this, and we're just going to let some random NIMBY from the RAC start dictating terms? Right now we're getting a lot of proposals because we have at least the *appearance of being open for business. Let's not scare potential partners away by letting our traditional backwoods tribalism rear it's ugly head yet again.

The ONLY reason the RAC is against this is because a convention center hotel takes tourists away from their hotels. That's it. They could care less about the 19th street master plan, most of them have probably never even read the d@mn thing. Give me a break...

Precisely!  Nice analysis.

The Plot Thickens....

https://news.yahoo.com/virginia-beach-city-council-members-213900667.html

 

 

[vdogg]

On 4/11/2023 at 7:31 PM, baobabs727 said:

Precisely!  Nice analysis.

The Plot Thickens....

https://news.yahoo.com/virginia-beach-city-council-members-213900667.html

 

 

Dyer made a bad call, it's as simple as that. Makes me wonder who he has in his ear, because the rest of council seems to be quite irritated by his choice. His explanation makes NO sense. A presentation is just that, a presentation. Nothing would have been voted on up or down, so what the hell is he even talking about? ANOTHER study? We've already studied that corridor, it's in the master plan. Another study will take years and tons of money. Capstone will not wait around for them to finish it, I can guarantee that. Something stinks. Mr. Dyer needs to be reminded that the RAC is not an elected body, council is. Their recommendations should only carry as much weight as a citizen's in that regard.

[baobabs727]

12 hours ago, vdogg said:

Dyer made a bad call, it's as simple as that. Makes me wonder who he has in his ear, because the rest of council seems to be quite irritated by his choice. His explanation makes NO sense. A presentation is just that, a presentation. Nothing would have been voted on up or down, so what the hell is he even talking about? ANOTHER study? We've already studied that corridor, it's in the master plan. Another study will take years and tons of money. Capstone will not wait around for them to finish it, I can guarantee that. Something stinks. Mr. Dyer needs to be reminded that the RAC is not an elected body, council is. Their recommendations should only carry as much weight as a citizen's in that regard.

Hear, Hear!! I am going to send some fiery emails out very soon.  Super busy with work rn.  We need to lobby, lobby, lobby for reconsideration! I think Mr. Dyer is thinking about his re-election campaign. That's what's (who's) "in his ear," lol! He's afraid of the Old Beach monied types and Strip Stakeholders (one and the same, really). Mmm why did my mind go straight to beef?! Haha. Get it? Strip Stakeholders.  Please pardon the pun. >>> Anywho,  Dyer placated the big boys under the guise of boosting Capstone's chances for "fair treatment." Neat trick.

This Capstone proposal is what we need on 19th.  And we need it NOW. Not 5 years from now. This proposal solves a multitude of problems, including the issues of the missing convention hotel and dearth of workforce housing.  Plus I'm quite sure there would be some type of shared parking structure component...public/private...likely paid for by the City and leased by Capstone for some parking spaces for the apartments, etc.  IDK, I could be wrong.    UGH! Things around here never change. 

[urbanlife]

On 4/11/2023 at 9:30 AM, baobabs727 said:

I love a good Whodunnit?! I would think that allowing (IF that is what actually happened) competing hotelier interests at the strip to dictate what gets built on 19th street would be neither advisable nor appropriate, especially given the fact that the Convention Center has, indeed, needed a hotel for over a decade.   

 

 

That definitely doesn't look like the convention center area from my childhood in the 80s. Talk about a huge upgrade to that whole area.

[baobabs727]

So far, I've sent 5 emails. All 5 Councilpersons have replied. Pretty positive reactions so far. A couple of them expressed solidarity with the Mayor coupled with very positive thoughts on Mr. Jenkins and his proposal.  One of those two said that the Mayor basically loves the proposal. A couple others expressed a desire to see this get done sooner than later.  The remaining Councilperson was positive on the potential here but non-committal on the project and provided no comment the Mayor's decision.

[vdogg]

12 minutes ago, baobabs727 said:

So far, I've sent 5 emails. All 5 Councilpersons have replied. Pretty positive reactions so far. A couple of them expressed solidarity with the Mayor coupled with very positive thoughts on Mr. Jenkins and his proposal.  One of those two said that the Mayor basically loves the proposal. A couple others expressed a desire to see this get done sooner than later.  The remaining Councilperson was positive on the potential here but non-committal on the project and provided no comment the Mayor's decision.

But we need a supermajority. 4 more to go Babs, you're doing great work. 

[baobabs727]

On 4/18/2023 at 12:21 PM, vdogg said:

But we need a supermajority. 4 more to go Babs, you're doing great work. 

         ***UPDATE**

1) I sent out 5 more.

2) Received my 6th reply:  "Thanks for reaching out. " 

Edited April 19, 2023 by baobabs727

[baobabs727]

On 4/18/2023 at 1:49 PM, baobabs727 said:

         ***UPDATE**

1) I sent out 6 more.

2) Received my 6th reply:  "Thanks for reaching out. " 

I have now received a total of 8 replies out of 10 emails sent. I didn't send an email to one Councilperson. The blood between us isn't all that great lol. Then again, there's bad blood between this CP and several other CP's, so I guess I shouldn't feel too badly about it!

The 7th reply indicated that the process must play out, to include community and stakeholder input and involvement...and an actual RFP.  What was put out in this case was an RFI  (Request for Interest).... There was discussion at the time that an RFP would follow....but it never did. This Councilady insists that since this is City-owned property, proper procedure must be followed.  She also wants to see to it that the local boys get a fair shot at it...as well as anyone else from anywhere else who is qualified.  Apparently, Mr. Jenkins made an unsolicited proposal of sorts, and she is claiming that the RFI made it clear that this was not an RFP.  Basically, I think Jenkins caught them off guard. The email expressed zero overt support for this or any proposal there, nor was there any real critique of this proposal or the idea of a development on that site. At the end, she concluded with..."after the RFP and extensive community and stakeholder feedback, we will determine if there are any other steps to be taken."

The 8th reply thanked me for the email but made it known that the Mayor was simply trying to  get the timing right.  States Mr. Jenkins' project ticks a lot of the boxes that Council has set forth as priorities for the 19th st corridor (and beyond)... with the workforce housing component, convention center/sport center hotel ...and quite possibly J1 housing!...(tbd.) He went on to say that given the size, scope and location (City property and 19th st), it would be prudent to open up the process to all stakeholders and the public...plus quite possibly an RFP.

8 down and 2 more to go.... (P.S., somebody please write to Mrs. Wooten LOL). So I think it's too early to read these tea leaves.  The project will require a 9 vote supermajority.  

Edited April 19, 2023 by baobabs727

[vdogg]

12 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

I have now received a total of 8 replies out of 10 emails sent. I didn't send an email to one Councilperson. The blood between us isn't all that great lol. Then again, there's bad blood between this CP and several other CP's, so I guess I shouldn't feel too badly about it!

The 7th reply indicated that the process must play out, to include community and stakeholder input and involvement...and an actual RFP.  What was put out in this case was an RFI  (Request for Interest).... There was discussion at the time that an RFP would follow....but it never did. This Councilady insists that since this is City-owned property, proper procedure must be followed.  She also wants to see to it that the local boys get a fair shot at it...as well as anyone else from anywhere else who is qualified.  Apparently, Mr. Jenkins made an unsolicited proposal of sorts, and she is claiming that the RFI made it clear that this was not an RFP.  Basically, I think Jenkins caught them off guard. The email expressed zero overt support for this or any proposal there, nor was there any real critique of this proposal or the idea of a development on that site. At the end, she concluded with..."after the RFP and extensive community and stakeholder feedback, we will determine if there are any other steps to be taken."

The 8th reply thanked me for the email but made it known that the Mayor was simply trying to  get the timing right.  States Mr. Jenkins' project ticks a lot of the boxes that Council has set forth as priorities for the 19th st corridor (and beyond)... with the workforce housing component, convention center/sport center hotel ...and quite possibly J1 housing!...(tbd.) He went on to say that given the size, scope and location (City property and 19th st), it would be prudent to open up the process to all stakeholders and the public...plus quite possibly an RFP.

8 down and 2 more to go.... (P.S., somebody please write to Mrs. Wooten LOL). So I think it's too early to read these tea leaves.  The project will require a 9 vote supermajority.  

I'm counting the "Thanks for reaching out" as a definite no, so we can cross them out. Unfortunately, I think we do have to do an RFP, if for no other reason than to get the others on board. I just hope that we don't give too much favor to the "local boys", as it's time to get some new blood in this area with regard to development.

[Lluck002]

On 4/12/2023 at 11:02 AM, vdogg said:

Dyer made a bad call, it's as simple as that. Makes me wonder who he has in his ear, because the rest of council seems to be quite irritated by his choice. His explanation makes NO sense. A presentation is just that, a presentation. Nothing would have been voted on up or down, so what the hell is he even talking about? ANOTHER study? We've already studied that corridor, it's in the master plan. Another study will take years and tons of money. Capstone will not wait around for them to finish it, I can guarantee that. Something stinks. Mr. Dyer needs to be reminded that the RAC is not an elected body, council is. Their recommendations should only carry as much weight as a citizen's in that regard.

So during preliminary review of Atlantic Park, a hotel was initially included in the proposal. We in Planning liked the idea since it’s supposed to be truly mixed-use, but the RAC was basically against new hotels west of Pacific. So now instead, a sizable amount of what were supposed to residential units are going to be permanent short-term rentals (Airbnb, VRBO, etc.) Definitely an L for the community and the developers. I expressed my concern in several meetings as to why RAC overrides the Department of Planning & Community Development’s professional recommendations but wasn’t really given a straight answer before leaving the City.

[baobabs727]

On 4/19/2023 at 5:29 PM, baobabs727 said:

I have now received a total of 8 replies out of 10 emails sent. I didn't send an email to one Councilperson. The blood between us isn't all that great lol. Then again, there's bad blood between this CP and several other CP's, so I guess I shouldn't feel too badly about it!

The 7th reply indicated that the process must play out, to include community and stakeholder input and involvement...and an actual RFP.  What was put out in this case was an RFI  (Request for Interest).... There was discussion at the time that an RFP would follow....but it never did. This Councilady insists that since this is City-owned property, proper procedure must be followed.  She also wants to see to it that the local boys get a fair shot at it...as well as anyone else from anywhere else who is qualified.  Apparently, Mr. Jenkins made an unsolicited proposal of sorts, and she is claiming that the RFI made it clear that this was not an RFP.  Basically, I think Jenkins caught them off guard. The email expressed zero overt support for this or any proposal there, nor was there any real critique of this proposal or the idea of a development on that site. At the end, she concluded with..."after the RFP and extensive community and stakeholder feedback, we will determine if there are any other steps to be taken."

The 8th reply thanked me for the email but made it known that the Mayor was simply trying to  get the timing right.  States Mr. Jenkins' project ticks a lot of the boxes that Council has set forth as priorities for the 19th st corridor (and beyond)... with the workforce housing component, convention center/sport center hotel ...and quite possibly J1 housing!...(tbd.) He went on to say that given the size, scope and location (City property and 19th st), it would be prudent to open up the process to all stakeholders and the public...plus quite possibly an RFP.

8 down and 2 more to go.... (P.S., somebody please write to Mrs. Wooten LOL). So I think it's too early to read these tea leaves.  The project will require a 9 vote supermajority.  

Received a straggler...9th reply...."Yes, you are right. The Developer is top tier and VB could benefit from his expertise. Stay tuned!"

[varider]

VB wants Capstone to come back and develop the project at the Convention Center. Hopefully they’re still interested.

https://www.pilotonline.com/2023/09/14/virginia-beach-will-hear-details-on-convention-center-hotel-proposal-next-month/

Norm Jenkins of Capstone Development has been officially invited back Oct. 3 to present a proposal for a mixed-use project on 19th Street. A briefing on the development project was scrubbed from the Virginia Beach City Council agenda in April at the request of the mayor.

Jenkins wants to build a convention center hotel and apartments on what is currently surface parking lots.

“This has the potential to be a significant game changer for us and really elevate us as a tourist destination,” Mayor Bobby Dyer said at Tuesday’s City Council meeting.

[BFG]

Looks pretty ambitious. Can’t wait for the NIMBYs to force City Council to whittle it down to just one generic four-story building!

[baobabs727]

Capstone presents, Barbara Henley is concerned. She's a joke at this point, actually. 

Presentation begins at 4:40. I watched it all. I have other comments, but the one I'll share now is that Barbara made me throw Subway  lettuce at my phone. Time for her to GO. 

Over 2 million total square feet of development, 933 apartments, a 300-400 room nationally branded hotel (likely chosen from among the Hyatt, Hilton, and  Marriott families of upscale... but not luxury. ..tiered hotels...e.g., Courtyard/ Garden/Residence Inn level) with meeting space and a rooftop bar, a restaurant and retail space on the 1st floor...all built on the surface parking lots across the street from the convention center. The project would be built in 3-4 phases for financing purposes. 

 

https://www.wtkr.com/news/virginia-beach-commissioners-hear-proposal-for-hotel-next-to-convention-center

https://www.pilotonline.com/2023/10/06/proposal-to-build-hotel-apartments-near-virginia-beach-convention-center-sparks-councils-interest/

 

 

Edited October 8, 2023 by baobabs727

[vdogg]

26 minutes ago, baobabs727 said:

Capstone presents, Barbara Henley is concerned. She's a joke at this point, actually. 

Presentation begins at 4:40. I watched it all. I have other comments, but the one I'll share now is that Barbara made me throw Subway  lettuce at my phone. Time for her to GO. 

Over 2 million total square feet of development, 933 apartments, a 300-400 room nationally branded hotel (likely chosen from among the Hyatt, Hilton, and  Marriott families of upscale... but not luxury. ..tiered hotels...e.g., Courtyard/ Garden/Residence Inn level) with meeting space and a rooftop bar, a restaurant and retail space on the 1st floor...all built on the surface parking lots across the street from the convention center. The project would be built in 3-4 phases for financing purposes. 

 

https://www.wtkr.com/news/virginia-beach-commissioners-hear-proposal-for-hotel-next-to-convention-center

https://www.pilotonline.com/2023/10/06/proposal-to-build-hotel-apartments-near-virginia-beach-convention-center-sparks-councils-interest/

 

 

This looks absolutely fantastic and I'm encouraged by council's response, Henley notwithstanding. She just doesn't want any development anywhere, time for her to move out to a smaller town.

[vdogg]

2 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

 I have other comments, but the one I'll share now is that Barbara made me throw Subway  lettuce at my phone. Time for her to GO. 

https://www.wtkr.com/news/virginia-beach-commissioners-hear-proposal-for-hotel-next-to-convention-center

https://www.pilotonline.com/2023/10/06/proposal-to-build-hotel-apartments-near-virginia-beach-convention-center-sparks-councils-interest/

 

 

I'm guessing "small town flavor" is when you threw your lettuce at the phone, because that's when I threw my coffee...

[BFG]

I haven’t watched the video, and I’ll make sure not to have any food or drink nearby when I do. But for Ms. Henley to talk about small town flavor, she realizes VB has nearly half-a-million residents, right?

That ain’t a “small town”.

[urbanvb]

It’s small town mindset. Probably the biggest reason why we’re lagging so far behind our peers.

[vdogg]

One thing that is missing from this conversation is how much depth this will give to the ocean front. This project combined with the vibe district and Atlantic Park will culminate in a large area of continuous urban development. This will basically become a second downtown for Virginia Beach, and together is at least two to three times larger than Town Center proper. This will be quite the game changer once all is said and done.

[baobabs727]

22 hours ago, vdogg said:

I'm guessing "small town flavor" is when you threw your lettuce at the phone, because that's when I threw my coffee...

Haha! Yes, indeed!  Also, Barb mentioned something about difficult choices to determine "what kind of a town we want to be." I'm like, LADYYYY! That ship has SAILED!  20 years ago! And by sheer necessity! There is no other choice, especially in the Northern half of the City:  Redevelopment, Densification and Urbanization...plus...dare I say it...LRT/RBT. They are ALL MANDATORY!  FULL STOP!  Ask anyone under 35 what they want,  Mrs. Barbara Henley!  And be prepared for ye old brain to explode!!

And what of Affordable/Workforce Housing, Mrs. Henley? What sayeth you?   ((...crickets...)) But of course, why would we expect an octogenarian, multi-millionaire, country farmer sitting on hundreds of inherited acres to empathize with the average Joe or Jane, aged 20-35, struggling to afford a rent-a-box at $1850/mo.?  

Edited October 9, 2023 by baobabs727

[BFG]

3 hours ago, vdogg said:

One thing that is missing from this conversation is how much depth this will give to the ocean front. This project combined with the vibe district and Atlantic Park will culminate in a large area of continuous urban development. This will basically become a second downtown for Virginia Beach, and together is at least two to three times larger than Town Center proper. This will be quite the game changer once all is said and done.

And based on the design, it appears to want to attract young professionals. With it being a hop, skip, and a jump from the ViBe District I would think this is a no-brainer.