Orlando Citrus Bowl Stadium [Renovation Completed]

[cwetteland]

Quick! Someone tell someone our suggestion! Actually, if the PAC was elevated enough, there could be parking beneath the entire structure accessible from the subterranean/ tunneled portion of Magnolia. There could even be a LYMMO stop in there for the entire complex.

Something about an acoustically tuned building where you can hear a pin drop from the back row and buses and trucks rumbling through the basement just doesn't seem to go together.

[neon9]

While we're jacking up the whole PAC to fit a one-lane one-way road underneath it, parking, and a Lymmo stop, let's go ahead and put the new arena underneath there too. As far as subterranean tunnels go, maybe there's a reason why there's only one of those in the whole state of Florida...

I was actually going to ask if anyone was aware of a tunnel in the state other than the one in Ft. Lauderdale for US 1. I'm not.

[sunshine]

There is a tunnel underneath Archer road to connect Shands and Veterans hospital but that's not for car.

[bulldogger]

I was actually going to ask if anyone was aware of a tunnel in the state other than the one in Ft. Lauderdale for US 1. I'm not.

Pretty much all of The Magic Kingdom has a tunnel running underneath it. Part of Epcot Center has a tunnel as well.

[sunshine]

Miami is going to build and tunnel to join the port of miami to some causeway. I belive part of the proposed METRO are supposed to be underground too.

[bulldogger]

I belive part of the proposed METRO are supposed to be underground too.

I don't remember where I read it, but the E/W METRO line that they plan on building will be underground where it runs in downtown.

[cwetteland]

They put tunnels under the Chesapeake and it's alot wetter there I'm told. Then there's that whole Chunnel thing.

[WeNeed2Progress]

While we're jacking up the whole PAC to fit a one-lane one-way road underneath it, parking, and a Lymmo stop, let's go ahead and put the new arena underneath there too. As far as subterranean tunnels go, maybe there's a reason why there's only one of those in the whole state of Florida...

I'm not saying totally underground, only 2'-3' just to sink it a bit. Is there a problem with Florida's water table or something?

Something about an acoustically tuned building where you can hear a pin drop from the back row and buses and trucks rumbling through the basement just doesn't seem to go together.

Good point. If they could pull it off it would be an engineering feat worthy of a Discovery Channel special. Maybe bring people flocking to see it. Or maybe not.

[WeNeed2Progress]

Pretty much all of The Magic Kingdom has a tunnel running underneath it. Part of Epcot Center has a tunnel as well.

Actually the tunnels in both parks are at the standard ground level, the park is almost a second floor. Infact the Seven Seas Lagoon that the Magic Kingdom and it's respective resorts surround was created from the earth they hauled to build a second level for the park to sit atop. Very intelligent indeed. Most of the back of the park is a steep wall down to the service road behind it. As for Epcot, as soon as you reach spaceship Earth, notice the slope upwards. This is where the Tunnel entrance is. Once you pass Spaceship Earth, notice the ground begins a slow gradual slope down.

[bic]

There are a number of reasons as to why it's not practical to put Magnolia underground at the PAC site. A major one to consider is that in order for the street to be below grade at the PAC, it would need a lot of space to allow for the shallow grade ramps that would be required. This would effectively cut off the buildings at South Street and Anderson from Magnolia. And if you wanted to get really technical about it, the block between South Street and Jackson is extremely short at about 175 feet in length...so if you wanted to construct a tunnel with the standard 16.5 feet of clearance at the the PAC site, the ramp would require a grade of 11.8% between South Street and Jackson. That's not even taking into account the gradual transition the ramp would require to go from level surface to its steepest angle (which would now be more than 10.6 degrees). That's a pretty extreme angle for a roadway. The only way to decrease that would be to significantly reduce the clearance height (which isn't reasonable below 14 feet or so) or to extend the length of the ramp (which would further complicate things because it would then cut across the Jackson/Magnolia interhange).

Then there's the fact that Florida's geology isn't exactly conducive to tunnel construction and how much more money it would cost to perform such a feat. It's not like Magnolia is a major thoroughfare in this area either.

....but I like cwetteland's acoustics reason the most as to why we shouldn't put Magnolia under the PAC. Let's just keep it simple and go with that one.

[RedStar25]

They are from DC

Thank you for the correction...

How did you know that?

[jack]

I ran into them

[demon]

There are a number of reasons as to why it's not practical to put Magnolia underground at the PAC site. A major one to consider is that in order for the street to be below grade at the PAC, it would need a lot of space to allow for the shallow grade ramps that would be required. This would effectively cut off the buildings at South Street and Anderson from Magnolia. And if you wanted to get really technical about it, the block between South Street and Jackson is extremely short at about 175 feet in length...so if you wanted to construct a tunnel with the standard 16.5 feet of clearance at the the PAC site, the ramp would require a grade of 11.8% between South Street and Jackson. That's not even taking into account the gradual transition the ramp would require to go from level surface to its steepest angle (which would now be more than 10.6 degrees). That's a pretty extreme angle for a roadway. The only way to decrease that would be to significantly reduce the clearance height (which isn't reasonable below 14 feet or so) or to extend the length of the ramp (which would further complicate things because it would then cut across the Jackson/Magnolia interhange).

Then there's the fact that Florida's geology isn't exactly conducive to tunnel construction and how much more money it would cost to perform such a feat. It's not like Magnolia is a major thoroughfare in this area either.

....but I like cwetteland's acoustics reason the most as to why we shouldn't put Magnolia under the PAC. Let's just keep it simple and go with that one.

What if we put in one of those car elevators??

[WeNeed2Progress]

There are a number of reasons as to why it's not practical to put Magnolia underground at the PAC site. A major one to consider is that in order for the street to be below grade at the PAC, it would need a lot of space to allow for the shallow grade ramps that would be required. This would effectively cut off the buildings at South Street and Anderson from Magnolia. And if you wanted to get really technical about it, the block between South Street and Jackson is extremely short at about 175 feet in length...so if you wanted to construct a tunnel with the standard 16.5 feet of clearance at the the PAC site, the ramp would require a grade of 11.8% between South Street and Jackson. That's not even taking into account the gradual transition the ramp would require to go from level surface to its steepest angle (which would now be more than 10.6 degrees). That's a pretty extreme angle for a roadway. The only way to decrease that would be to significantly reduce the clearance height (which isn't reasonable below 14 feet or so) or to extend the length of the ramp (which would further complicate things because it would then cut across the Jackson/Magnolia interhange).

Then there's the fact that Florida's geology isn't exactly conducive to tunnel construction and how much more money it would cost to perform such a feat. It's not like Magnolia is a major thoroughfare in this area either.

....but I like cwetteland's acoustics reason the most as to why we shouldn't put Magnolia under the PAC. Let's just keep it simple and go with that one.

Thanks for the insight! Hmm... then what if we keep Magnolia the same, only raise the PAC over it. Sorry... sorry, I can't give up! Hahaha. Maybe there can be street level retail beneath the stairs! Starbucks!

[Pieson]

question

I was reading the orlando sentinel in regards to fundraising, and they mentioned that if they dont hit the $100 mil. donation mark, they will considered redrawing and reducing the size and scope of not only the theatre's, but they entire OPAC itself

in which case, doesn't that contradict the whole "we will do this right the first time" mentality, which I hear over and over again in relation to the arena and OPAC

I feel anything less than what is currently proposed now would be a severe short comming, leading us only to ditch this project 10 years from now to get something better

either way, does anyone know the fundraising agency hired to help drive this project and their track record?

[bulldogger]

question

I was reading the orlando sentinel in regards to fundraising, and they mentioned that if they dont hit the $100 mil. donation mark, they will considered redrawing and reducing the size and scope of not only the theatre's, but they entire OPAC itself

in which case, doesn't that contradict the whole "we will do this right the first time" mentality, which I hear over and over again in relation to the arena and OPAC

I feel anything less than what is currently proposed now would be a severe short comming, leading us only to ditch this project 10 years from now to get something better

either way, does anyone know the fundraising agency hired to help drive this project and their track record?

If they don't get the needed funding, they should go with the larger auditorium and a smaller theatre. Then, they can keep the Bob Carr as the mid-size theatre. I don't want this to happen, but I don't have a cool million to donate to the cause either.

[Boomer136]

If they don't get the needed funding, they should go with the larger auditorium and a smaller theatre. Then, they can keep the Bob Carr as the mid-size theatre. I don't want this to happen, but I don't have a cool million to donate to the cause either.

First, politicians going back on a promise to do things right? Where would we be if they did those things.... anyway. It's not about seating size. We need the two largest seating theatres, one for large broadway tours, and one true concert hall. Its about the acoustics, not the size so much. But if you are looking for a smaller space, Orlando has them. Loose the rehearsal space and the little theatre if you need to. Space to rehearse is easier to come by. I've done rehearsals in warehouse space for rent. Once with the scene shop in the warehouse next door. Fun to see the looks on the prospects' faces as they toured the facility.

(Obviously I support keeping the Carr.)

[Pieson]

First, politicians going back on a promise to do things right? Where would we be if they did those things.... anyway. It's not about seating size. We need the two largest seating theatres, one for large broadway tours, and one true concert hall. Its about the acoustics, not the size so much. But if you are looking for a smaller space, Orlando has them. Loose the rehearsal space and the little theatre if you need to. Space to rehearse is easier to come by. I've done rehearsals in warehouse space for rent. Once with the scene shop in the warehouse next door. Fun to see the looks on the prospects' faces as they toured the facility.

(Obviously I support keeping the Carr.)

ideally I would like to see a world class PAC built to not only give us a top of the line performing space, but to attract more attention

and I would vote to keep the bob carr and allocate use to UCF(who is in desperate need of a new performing space, as their current "theatre" is a former biology lecture hall) and whatever other group who may wish to use it

well thast what I think

[sunshine]

O'tive, aside of the PAc, can you go to one of the insider and ask Watson to bring the Marlins here to Otown and put them in his convention land. That's all I want for Xmas.

[sunshine]

Sort of dig up this news...

Bush open to $60M subsidy for Marlins

Print this {sodEmoji.|} E-mail this {sodEmoji.|} Comments on this article: 61

Posted: May 4, 2006

Associated Press

Legislation already passed by the House certifies the NBA's Orlando Magic for a similar state subsidy that Bush said he supports.

If the measure passes the Senate and becomes law, both professional sports teams would receive $60 million from the state over a 30-year period to help with building or refurbishing facilities.

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=89238

Anybody know about this?

[mrh3]

question

either way, does anyone know the fundraising agency hired to help drive this project and their track record?

I know that they were able to build the NJPAC which is really a stunning building. Not on the same scale as some of Manhattan's Grand Hall's, but certainly respectable for Newark. Given the track record of success at NJPAC, they should have no problem whatsoever reaching their goals because Orlando is such an untapped market and I think its reaching a level of maturation in which residents really want World Class facilities as a showcase.

[Boomer136]

Today, I noticed large white tarps over the signs of what now must be refered to as the Arena formerly known as the TD Waterhouse.

Anyone here know what the O-rena will be named now?

[wally2169]

If they don't get the needed funding, they should go with the larger auditorium and a smaller theatre. Then, they can keep the Bob Carr as the mid-size theatre. I don't want this to happen, but I don't have a cool million to donate to the cause either.

This really pisses me off

All the reason why we should A.) dump the Citrus Bowl renovation or B.) have increased the tax a little more

It's my understanding and correct me if I'm wrong because I cannot look on the prior pages of this thread to confirm or not, the increase was either 1/2 cent increase or 1 cent increase

Would it not have been better if it was 1 1/2 cent or 2 cent increase instead?

This would allow not only the PAC or Arena to be built with no issue but would allow the Citrus Bowl to be reonvated to such a large degree that it would give Raymond James Stadium or Alltel some major competition with regards to being the best in the state

I don't think such an increase would have been unreasonable, the tourists will come regardless of our tax stucture, they would be frightened off by the rising park prices more than anything else

Pity really, a little more and we could have done so much more

[bic]

Today, I noticed large white tarps over the signs of what now must be refered to as the Arena formerly known as the TD Waterhouse.

Anyone here know what the O-rena will be named now?

A sponsor hasn't been found yet so the venue will be called "The Arena" until the name situated is sorted out. That's right-- The Arena. Not the Orlando Arena. Not O-Rena. The Arena.

[bulldogger]

A sponsor hasn't been found yet so the venue will be called "The Arena" until the name situated is sorted out. That's right-- The Arena. Not the Orlando Arena. Not O-Rena. The Arena.

What happened to Ginn Arena - was that a hoax?