Richmond Grocery Wars

[I miss RVA]

6 hours ago, RiverYuppy said:

Not to mention something like 70% of their current lot is asphalt and is a prime location for a mixed-use development. They could re-open in the Diamond District and sell the old lot to developers.

From your keyboard to God's eyes, my friend! How I wish that whole swath could be redeveloped into something with significant density that's more transit-centric and less reliant on the automobile. Something with integrated/structured parking, with the storefront up on Broad Street itself - maybe re-introduce an additional street on the property (if there's room) behind whatever buildings actually front Broad. A good, dense mixed-use development that could include grocery space unless the store is relocated to the Diamond District -- which once that area is fully built out, likely will be screaming for a grocer as part of the overall redevelopment mix.

[whw53]

Interesting - older news but something I did not know. The independent owners of the Farm Fresh in Shockoe Bottom have opened up a second Farm Fresh location in Poquoson. last year.

https://wydaily.com/business/2022/03/22/poquoson-farm-fresh-to-hold-grand-opening-april-1/

(Another operator deeper into Hampton Roads is using the legacy Farm Fresh name as well)

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by whw53

[Brent114]

The Lombardy Kroger is just fine. 
Every day there feels like the day before Thanksgiving, it’s so crowded.  The parking lot is always jammed packed too.   I really like the feel of it, don’t care for the Carytown vibe and hate how spread out that store is, but I go there for my cheeses   Now that i live in Manchester, I shop at the Kroger Marketplace on Midlothian. 
 

The selection of items at the Carver Kroger isn’t as great as the Carytown Kroger but it’s more than adequate for weekly shopping.  You know you’re spoiled by our grocery stores when people claim to pass this one (which compared to other inner city grocery stores is practically a Wegmans) to go to a better one. 

[I miss RVA]

6 minutes ago, Brent114 said:

The Lombardy Kroger is just fine. 
Every day there feels like the day before Thanksgiving, it’s so crowded.  The parking lot is always jammed packed too.   I really like the feel of it, don’t care for the Carytown vibe and hate how spread out that store is, but I go there for my cheeses   Now that i live in Manchester, I shop at the Kroger Marketplace on Midlothian. 
 

The selection of items at the Carver Kroger isn’t as great as the Carytown Kroger but it’s more than adequate for weekly shopping.  You know you’re spoiled by our grocery stores when people claim to pass this one (which compared to other inner city grocery stores is practically a Wegmans) to go to a better one. 

I'm curious how large would a proper grocer in Manchester need to be from square footage perspective? You've GOT to believe that as Manchester continues to beef up density and really build out, a grocer will show up at some point in the (hopefully) near future.

[Flood Zone]

12 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

I'm curious how large would a proper grocer in Manchester need to be from square footage perspective? You've GOT to believe that as Manchester continues to beef up density and really build out, a grocer will show up at some point in the (hopefully) near future.

It’s a delicate balance. A grocery store would serve the people of a revitalized Manchester but could well kill the RVA subreddit by negating its one reliable bit. 

[I miss RVA]

16 minutes ago, Flood Zone said:

It’s a delicate balance. A grocery store would serve the people of a revitalized Manchester but could well kill the RVA subreddit by negating its one reliable bit. 

Oh yeah - the RVA subreddit would absolutely blow up if/when a grocer plants a stake in Manchester.

[Icetera]

28 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

I'm curious how large would a proper grocer in Manchester need to be from square footage perspective? You've GOT to believe that as Manchester continues to beef up density and really build out, a grocer will show up at some point in the (hopefully) near future.

The Lombardy Kroger is 55k so that is probably about the right size as a Manchester one may not be quite as busy (though sure it serves Manchester now).  I imagine a Kroger or Publix would also become competition with Farm Fresh for Shockoe residents.  A Kroger Marketplace would be nice in the central city as we really lack general goods suppliers but I am not aware of any urban footprints.  May be better to hope for a target (old Sears building please, Sauer!).

Personally, I would likely switch to the new store if built rather than driving to Lombardy, though Lombardy always has the better fuel prices in the area for my monthly fill up (thanks walkability and Pulse).  I used to be that guy that drove past Lombardy to Carytown Kroger (gotten crowded, no fuel, too much sprawl as stated earlier) or Laburnum Ave. Kroger (dated, lacks selection and Williamsburg Road traffic is obnoxious), but have since discovered that the popular culture of hate on Lombardy is mostly unfounded.

[benstyree]

I think it's crucial to have a legitimate grocery outlet in that area.  It serves VCU, near northside, downtown, and a large portion of the Fan.  I'd hate to see it moved out to the Diamond District.  What I would love to see is the existing setup turned into an urban footprint with structured parking instead of a huge parking lot with the store set back way off of Broad.  This would include knocking down the old service station/Dollar Tree/Foot Locker and the little strips which now front Broad.  Those stores could be integrated into the ground floor of a new development.  Something like the Carytown Publix, but with 8-10 floors of apartments above it.  The fuel station can stay where it is.  Then reconnect Clay Street behind the new development and behind Lowe's (it looks like a right-of-way may still be there) to establish the grid.  This would leave the current footprint of the Kroger available for a second residential mid/high-rise.

After that's done, do the same thing with the Lowe's lot and turn the old Sear's building into a Target.

Edited March 15, 2023 by benstyree

[wrldcoupe4]

Probably easier to get a smaller format like Aldi in Manchester  and build from there. 

[I miss RVA]

54 minutes ago, benstyree said:

I think it's crucial to have a legitimate grocery outlet in that area.  It serves VCU, near northside, downtown, and a large portion of the Fan.  I'd hate to see it moved out to the Diamond District.  What I would love to see is the existing setup turned into an urban footprint with structured parking instead of a huge parking lot with the store set back way off of Broad.  This would include knocking down the old service station/Dollar Tree/Foot Locker and the little strips which now front Broad.  Those stores could be integrated into the ground floor of a new development.  Something like the Carytown Publix, but with 8-10 floors of apartments above it.  The fuel station can stay where it is.  Then reconnect Clay Street behind the new development and behind Lowe's (it looks like a right-of-way may still be there) to establish the grid.  This would leave the current footprint of the Kroger available for a second residential mid/high-rise.

After that's done, do the same thing with the Lowe's lot and turn the old Sear's building into a Target.

 this!!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Fully agreed on all points. That would be the perfect development for that part of town.

[asies]

1 hour ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

Probably easier to get a smaller format like Aldi in Manchester  and build from there. 

I think that is what Manchester will end up getting, and as a Manchester resident, I wouldn't mind an Aldi in walking distance.

Edited March 15, 2023 by asies

[Icetera]

1 hour ago, benstyree said:

I think it's crucial to have a legitimate grocery outlet in that area.  It serves VCU, near northside, downtown, and a large portion of the Fan.  I'd hate to see it moved out to the Diamond District.  What I would love to see is the existing setup turned into an urban footprint with structured parking instead of a huge parking lot with the store set back way off of Broad.  This would include knocking down the old service station/Dollar Tree/Foot Locker and the little strips which now front Broad.  Those stores could be integrated into the ground floor of a new development.  Something like the Carytown Publix, but with 8-10 floors of apartments above it.  The fuel station can stay where it is.  Then reconnect Clay Street behind the new development and behind Lowe's (it looks like a right-of-way may still be there) to establish the grid.  This would leave the current footprint of the Kroger available for a second residential mid/high-rise.

After that's done, do the same thing with the Lowe's lot and turn the old Sear's building into a Target.

I like some of the ideas and general goal but I strongly disagree on tearing down the old Firestone building simply for the sake of changing the Broad St. frontage to a single retailer.  The smaller shops need that visibility and easy pedestrian access much more while Kroger is a destination retailer and will be fine set back a block.

Theoretical Proposal
Phase 1 - Rebuild Kroger fuel center (pumps could relocate but not underground tanks) integrated into a parking deck bounded by Lombardy, Marshall, Bowe, and the Marshall/Clay alley.  Residential can be added to the upper levels, perhaps in a 'C' format creating half of a Texas Donut.
Phase 2 - Rebuild Kroger on the remaining half of the parking lot.  Loading and stock will be on the first floor (much like Publix Carytown).  Add small retail spaces to Lombardy and/or Bowe St frontage.  Kroger's main floor will be on floor two.  The parking garage will then be extended over Kroger for X number of levels followed by the remainder of the Texas Donut with amenities filled in the now courtyard (pool, etc).
Phase 3 - Extend W. Clay St.  to N. Lombardy.  Redevelop old Kroger lot into mixed use.  Relocate the shops facing Kroger now to the new shop spaces and redevelop the property into mixed use.
Phase 4 - Extend W. Marshall St to N. Lombardy.  Relocate the shops at the corner of Broad and Bowe to the new mixed use building.  Redevelop that corner into mixed use.

Wishlist
Relocate Lowe's Pro Services entrance to Lobardy side.
Extend W. Marshall between Lowe's frontage and parking to N. Allen Ave.
Redevelop Lowe's parking into structured parking and mixed use.

[Brent114]

Best case scenario for Manchester, IMO, is an Aldi sized store in the old Manchester area (either near the floor wall or maybe where the existing Family Dollar is on 15th or 16th).  There is a new Family Dollar a half mile up Hull so this store won’t be missed if replaced by a grocer. 
 

The full sized grocery store should be on Jeff Davis (forget what it’s called now) down near or past the Model Tobacco building.   The size of the city not served by a grocery store is a lot bigger than just Manchester.    Forest Hill people have a Food Lion and Publix (and Walmart) not very far away, so those people shouldn’t be a part of the equation, IMO.  Woodland Heights and Swansboro would be close to a store along Jeff Davis (I really need to learn the new name!). 

 

[Brent114]

As for the redevelopment  of the Carver Kroger…. The good news is that the streets (Clay and Marshall) already continue through to Lombardy.   Even without moving Kroger one can build on the southern side of Clay.  A mixed use building there with parking for Kroger would be very easy.  It would just require a tunnel or pedestrian bridge to connect the store to the deck.  Essentially the block between Marshall and Clay is already a blank slate.   

[benstyree]

39 minutes ago, Icetera said:

I like some of the ideas and general goal but I strongly disagree on tearing down the old Firestone building simply for the sake of changing the Broad St. frontage to a single retailer.  The smaller shops need that visibility and easy pedestrian access much more while Kroger is a destination retailer and will be fine set back a block.

I agree that the smaller shops should have Broad Street frontage, but I don't think what we're discussing is mutually exclusive.  I would love to see a large mixed used building fronting the entire block of Broad where the Firestone building currently is.  There could be a pedestrian entrance for Kroger there as well, perhaps on one corner (and a second, probably larger, entrance on the other side of the store where the parking structure would be located), and the smaller retailers could fill up the remaining parcels along Broad Street.  This doesn't require the big box to be "set back a block".  What I'm really talking about is something like this Giant in DC, but where you see the awnings down H street here would be smaller retailers like the ones currently in the little strips in front of Kroger.

 

[I miss RVA]

4 hours ago, Brent114 said:

The full sized grocery store should be on Jeff Davis (forget what it’s called now) down near or past the Model Tobacco building.   The size of the city not served by a grocery store is a lot bigger than just Manchester.    Forest Hill people have a Food Lion and Publix (and Walmart) not very far away, so those people shouldn’t be a part of the equation, IMO.  Woodland Heights and Swansboro would be close to a store along Jeff Davis (I really need to learn the new name!). 

I might be wrong, but I think the former Jeff Davis is now called Richmond Highway.

When I was growing up, I'd always heard it referred to as "Petersburg Pike" or simply "The Pike."  If someone said "The Pike" - I instinctively knew they were talking about Jeff Davis.

Edited March 15, 2023 by I miss RVA

[eandslee]

15 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

I might be wrong, but I think the former Jeff Davis is now called Richmond Highway.

When I was growing up, I'd always heard it referred to as "Petersburg Pike" or simply "The Pike."  If someone said "The Pike" - I instinctively knew they were talking about Jeff Davis.

Depending on where you are on Route 1, I’ve actually seen it named Washington Hwy.  Up here in NoVA it’s called Richmond Hwy. 

[I miss RVA]

7 minutes ago, eandslee said:

Depending on where you are on Route 1, I’ve actually seen it named Washington Hwy.  Up here in NoVA it’s called Richmond Hwy. 

Looks like it's called "Richmond Highway" between the Hull Street/Cowardin Avenue intersection and Walmsley Boulevard. It's listed as "Route 1" south of Walmsley.

[I miss RVA]

10 hours ago, benstyree said:

I agree that the smaller shops should have Broad Street frontage, but I don't think what we're discussing is mutually exclusive.  I would love to see a large mixed used building fronting the entire block of Broad where the Firestone building currently is.  There could be a pedestrian entrance for Kroger there as well, perhaps on one corner (and a second, probably larger, entrance on the other side of the store where the parking structure would be located), and the smaller retailers could fill up the remaining parcels along Broad Street.  This doesn't require the big box to be "set back a block".  What I'm really talking about is something like this Giant in DC, but where you see the awnings down H street here would be smaller retailers like the ones currently in the little strips in front of Kroger.

 

 this!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  for that Kroger block along Broad from the Opus west. My entire life (and friends, I'm 60) I've HATED that damn oversized parking lot on Broad with a grocery store stuck a mile and a half back -- well off the street. It should NEVER - EVER - have been built that way. Ugh... I pray I live and see the day something like what's in this photo replaces that eyesore. Mind you - I want to keep the grocery store there. Just put it into an urban, street-facing, sidewalk-adjacent building, reconnect Marshall and Clay, build in residential density, mixed use, some office, etc. and really re-urbanize that whole section. The Opus at Lombardy & Broad is a FANTASTIC start. Let's keep THAT momentum going!

[whw53]

Virginia Supreme Court has sent the Wegmans suit back to the county circuit Court.

Don't get me wrong - if local government is truly at fault and did not follow their own procedures then they should be held accountable. I'd prefer a Wegmans distribution center AND local governance that isn't caught up in lawsuits.  At the same time the ship has sailed - there can't be any interference here with the scope of the project. It would send a horrible signal up and down 95.

https://www.supermarketnews.com/retail-financial/virginia-supreme-court-shoots-down-wegmans-appeal-concerning-distribution-center

[whw53]

More from the RTD. I don't like their characterization of the petitioners as the 'little guy'. If there is a forgotten man here I think it would be the potential workers at the threatened facility - not the NIMBY neighbors.

 

https://richmond.com/news/local/homeowners-victory-against-wegmans-may-be-a-sign-of-things-to-come-for-the-little/article_590c965a-f105-11ed-8d12-8795763d538d.html

[plain]

As a former resident of Hanover County, let me just say this: the county, its sheriff's office, and over half of its residents, SUCK. I can see if the NIMBYs wanted to put it in a different location but they won't even settle for that.. they just don't want it in the county, period.

[I miss RVA]

25 minutes ago, plain said:

As a former resident of Hanover County, let me just say this: the county, its sheriff's office, and over half of its residents, SUCK. I can see if the NIMBYs wanted to put it in a different location but they won't even settle for that.. they just don't want it in the county, period.

In some ways that it's still this way kinda surprises me, given that the county has grown now to 113K population (estimated 2023), is growing rapidly (one of the faster growing counties in the Commonwealth and the RVA metro) and despite it's still largely rural character, has become increasingly "suburban" and is now a legitimate "suburb of Richmond" in the mold of both Chesterfield and Henrico.  Even more, it surprises me, given the fact that the distribution center is bringing 700 new jobs to the county.

Hanover is a far cry from the county of roughly 37K residents (1970 census) that it was when I was a kid, making treks with the family to visit my grandparents.

So my question is: this lawsuit has been sent back down to the lower court. Fine. But what does that mean going forward? The train has long-since left the station on the distribution center. The facility is nearly complete and is expected to be open and operational this summer. As @whw53said a couple of posts ago, my bigger concern is the potential black eye this gives the RVA metro and the negative message is sends on the broader scale.

[RiverYuppy]

I wonder if a distribution center there would make them more likely to open a grocery store closer to Richmond or even possibly within the city. 

I love Wegmans, but if you live in most of RVA it's a 20-30 minute drive one way to get to it. Putting one in as part of the Diamond District would make a great alternative to Whole Foods.

[ancientcarpenter]

2 hours ago, plain said:

As a former resident of Hanover County, let me just say this: the county, its sheriff's office, and over half of its residents, SUCK. I can see if the NIMBYs wanted to put it in a different location but they won't even settle for that.. they just don't want it in the county, period.

It gets so much worse: There's a reason it's nicknamed Klanover

I have friends out there (Hanover, Mechanicsville, Ashland, etc.) in new developments for cheap prices. Idc to live in the suburbs so I will stay in the city but at one point we seriously entertained it but visiting out there during 2020 election I refused to raise my kid around that extreme hate stuff. Some areas are just stuck in the past and have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the modern world. No thank you.

Edited May 16, 2023 by ancientcarpenter