Charlotte/Raleigh Highrise Building Booms

[smeagolsfree]

22 hours ago, KJHburg said:

These proposed building maps are all very interesting but we all know some of those towers won't be built anytime soon.  But they are fun to look at and in the case of Raleigh many required rezonings so that means those sites are now available for taller buildings.    Every booming city is slowing down due to the national interest rate m arket and construction financing markets which are not so good now.  But like I said they are fun to look at!  And at least in Raleigh Nashville and Charlotte and Austin we have lots of proposals some cities would struggle to have more than a couple.  

This is about a 20 year build out for a lot of these projects.  With the economy the way it is there will be some casualties no, no doubt, especially from the smaller developers. Many of these projects come from out-of-town big boy developers. Most of these projects are in close to the core and that despite not having a viable mass transit plan. I think that may have spurred a lot of development because folks can just walk, uber or bike to work. Some of these buildings are being built with no parking.

7 hours ago, norm21499 said:

How in the heck does Nashville have so many approved and proposed high-rises!?

A lot of this has to do with the housing shortage as many of these towers are residential in nature. There are also a lot of hotel towers too. The hotel occupancy and ADR are out of sight here. Ask Keven when he wants to get a hotel downtown and how much they are. You might as well be trying to book a hotel in NYC. three hundred a night in about the average for a room in the downtown average right now in the shoulder season. If there is a special event a $1000 a night is not out of the question. Ask Keven how far out he stays. 

There are also big developers with multi tower projects in the works. Tishman Speyer with a 2 tower, RMR out of Boston with a 10-tower project, Hines with an 8-tower project, Centrum out of Chicago with a 3-tower project, The Congress Group out of Boston with a 3-tower project, Bosa out of Vancouver w/ a 3 building high-rise project, & Portman Holdings with a 3-tower project. All of the land is bought and paid for. Other developer such as Lincoln, Highwoods are also planning multiple tower projects. SW Value Partners with a 9-tower project under construction. There have also been several dual tower projects completed with more still proposed from entities out of NYC and Miami, Chicago and other cities. Our local developers other than GBT, & Giarratana have sort of stopped building here, Giarratana has 3 high rises under construction, 2 approved, and 2 more in the works. The local developers are sort of priced out. Southern Land is doing projects in Charlotte and Philadelphia for example however they do have a low-rise campus planned in E Nashville.

[KJHburg]

20 minutes ago, smeagolsfree said:

This is about a 20 year build out for a lot of these projects.  With the economy the way it is there will be some casualties no, no doubt, especially from the smaller developers. Many of these projects come from out-of-town big boy developers. Most of these projects are in close to the core and that despite not having a viable mass transit plan. I think that may have spurred a lot of development because folks can just walk, uber or bike to work. Some of these buildings are being built with no parking.

A lot of this has to do with the housing shortage as many of these towers are residential in nature. There are also a lot of hotel towers too. The hotel occupancy and ADR are out of sight here. Ask Keven when he wants to get a hotel downtown and how much they are. You might as well be trying to book a hotel in NYC. three hundred a night in about the average for a room in the downtown average right now in the shoulder season. If there is a special event a $1000 a night is not out of the question. Ask Keven how far out he stays. 

There are also big developers with multi tower projects in the works. Tishman Speyer with a 2 tower, RMR out of Boston with a 10-tower project, Hines with an 8-tower project, Centrum out of Chicago with a 3-tower project, The Congress Group out of Boston with a 3-tower project, Bosa out of Vancouver w/ a 3 building high-rise project, & Portman Holdings with a 3-tower project. All of the land is bought and paid for. Other developer such as Lincoln, Highwoods are also planning multiple tower projects. SW Value Partners with a 9-tower project under construction. There have also been several dual tower projects completed with more still proposed from entities out of NYC and Miami, Chicago and other cities. Our local developers other than GBT, & Giarratana have sort of stopped building here, Giarratana has 3 high rises under construction, 2 approved, and 2 more in the works. The local developers are sort of priced out. Southern Land is doing projects in Charlotte and Philadelphia for example however they do have a low-rise campus planned in E Nashville.

Nashville's tourism industry convention goers and just plain tourists just dwarfs Charlotte's for sure.  There is no comparison and they do need more hotels as their room rates are sky high all the time downtown.  But without a transit system to speak of people who want to visit or have business downtown stay downtown.  Whereas in Charlotte you can stay south of Southend or in the University area and ride a train into the city.  I tell people they have surpassed New Orleans as a go to location to party and have bridal parties of all kinds there.  It is like putting a Key West and New Orleans together with a country twist and you have major tourist destination.  Yes I stay routinely 20 plus miles out due to the price and the cost to park a car downtown is very expensive.  I think Nashville is a great adult destination but I really would not call it a family destination.  Charlotte with its theme park Carowinds and Whitewater center is more of that. 

[smeagolsfree]

23 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Nashville's tourism industry convention goers and just plain tourists just dwarfs Charlotte's for sure.  There is no comparison and they do need more hotels as their room rates are sky high all the time downtown.  But without a transit system to speak of people who want to visit or have business downtown stay downtown.  Whereas in Charlotte you can stay south of Southend or in the University area and ride a train into the city.  I tell people they have surpassed New Orleans as a go to location to party and have bridal parties of all kinds there.  It is like putting a Key West and New Orleans together with a country twist and you have major tourist destination.  Yes I stay routinely 20 plus miles out due to the price and the cost to park a car downtown is very expensive.  I think Nashville is a great adult destination but I really would not call it a family destination.  Charlotte with its theme park Carowinds and Whitewater center is more of that. 

Speaking of the tourist dollars, Nashville is the number one tourist destination in the state now surpassing Gatlinburg bringing in over 9.97 billion dollars a year now. That is a third of the total for the state. Shelby (Memphis) and Sevier (Gatlinburg) counties combined do not even match the Davidson County totals now bring in around 7 billion combined.

Parking is another issue as there is no longer free parking downtown as the parking is enforced 24/7 now. A few of us still know where free parking is! Valet parking in the hotels is around $50 per night. NYC prices.

With a new mayor now, He has promised to introduce a voter transit referendum in his first term. But we have to get a funding plan in place first without new property taxes as the last mayor raised taxes by some 30 something percent.

[carolina1792]

 Omni Hotel & Resort will be the hotel brand for the 500 room hotel project for the Raleigh Convention Center. Will likely be in the 25 to 30 story range though to be honest anything is better than an empty parking lot. 

Here are some convention center hotel projects they have completed in the near past, expect this one to be similar:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Update:

 

"Omni Hotels and Resorts plans to build a 550-room hotel featuring a rooftop pool, spa, and meeting space. It will be built on a parking lot across from the Martin Marietta Center for the Performing Arts. The 27-story hotel will be about as tall as the Truist tower. Raleigh city council selected the developer to build a new luxury hotel downtown to allow for bigger conventions."

Edited September 19, 2023 by carolina1792

[CLT2014]

Very nice! The Omni should easily be the nicest full service hotel in downtown Raleigh and maybe the first 4 star hotel downtown. The Marriott renovations are nice, but the Sheraton is tired and there is a big shortage of full service hotels in that area. 

[East Side Urbanite]

As a downtown Nashville resident who studies cities (using online sources), I remain hugely impressed with the urban growth both Charlotte and Raleigh are experiencing. Major props to both cities.

My sister attended N.C. State so I have long rooted for Raleigh to evolve impressively — and it is. Studying the Glenwood South district (via Google Streetview and drone-taken videos) ... wow. And I'm impressed overall by how the dead space in the Raleigh core is being infilled. North Hills is highly eye-catching, both in terms of building height and building density. There are very few places like it in the South. Nashville does not have a North Hills (though Green Hills continues to grow). And congrats to Raleigh for the future Omni hotel.

Charlotte is a different animal (compared to most U.S. cities in the 2 to 3 million MSA population category) in terms of tall-building numbers and density. It dwarfs Nashville in that metric.  Very impressive. And now South End/Dilworth is landing height. There is so much about urban Charlotte to admire and envy.

A few of you posting in this thread have wondered how Nashville gets so many tall urban buildings (with many more planned) in relation to its fairly modest MSA population (only about 2 million in an area of roughly 7,000 square  miles). There is truly a disproportionate number of big, urban buildings for our number of people. Smeagolsfree could explain it better than I can, but a few observations:

* The tourism scene here drives the need for hotels. And most hotels in downtown and Midtown Nashville are tall (10 floors and taller). We're not Las Vegas, but we do have a significant number of hotels located in urban settings.

* Nashville (as many of you know) is home to multiple universities of note. Many of the graduates stay in Nashville (at least for a few years). Because these young people are used to "living small and urban" (either on a campus or near one), they are comfortable continuing that lifestyle in either a big apartment building or a condo tower.

* Nashville offers a significant geographic "sea" of street grid, which lends itself to mixed-use and bulky/tall structures. Our downtown has as no fewer than six distinct urban districts (and as many as nine or 10 depending on how you count them). And  Midtown, based on how you define its boundaries, has become a "second downtown" of sorts — thanks, in large part, to both Belmont and Vanderbilt universities.

A friendly shout-out to KJHburg for all the strong posting he does on this board and for giving Nashville credit and respect. Charlotte is lucky to have him.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by East Side Urbanite

[CLT Development]

19 hours ago, carolina1792 said:

 Omni Hotel & Resort will be the hotel brand for the 500 room hotel project for the Raleigh Convention Center. Will likely be in the 25 to 30 story range though to be honest anything is better than an empty parking lot. 

Here are some convention center hotel projects they have completed in the near past, expect this one to be similar:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Update:

 

"Omni Hotels and Resorts plans to build a 550-room hotel featuring a rooftop pool, spa, and meeting space. It will be built on a parking lot across from the Martin Marietta Center for the Performing Arts. The 27-story hotel will be about as tall as the Truist tower. Raleigh city council selected the developer to build a new luxury hotel downtown to allow for bigger conventions."

Man this quote "The 27-story hotel will be about as tall as the Truist tower" shows how little the author knows about building heights. I would expect this hotel to be more than 100 feet shorter than Hannover Square. 

[CLT2014]

19 minutes ago, CLT Development said:

Man this quote "The 27-story hotel will be about as tall as the Truist tower" shows how little the author knows about building heights. I would expect this hotel to be more than 100 feet shorter than Hannover Square. 

WRAL journalism has gone way downhill. Their reporting on Vinfast is also garbage, with no investigative lens and just functioning as a propaganda arm for Vinfast. The small Chatham Journal Newspaper has done more investigative reporting / has higher quality Op-Eds on the plant and Vinfast's shenanigans.  

Edited September 20, 2023 by CLT2014

[carolina1792]

2 hours ago, CLT Development said:

Man this quote "The 27-story hotel will be about as tall as the Truist tower" shows how little the author knows about building heights. I would expect this hotel to be more than 100 feet shorter than Hannover Square. 

 

The design of this hotel is subject to change, it's just an initial render of what the developer can do.

One city council member did express the need for height and build material quality so those comments will influence the design the hotel when that process gets started. 

Given that the Raleigh Convention Center expansion timeline has been accelerated this hotel needs to be built ASAP. 

[carolina1792]

South Raleigh at the moment. 5 cranes, left to right: Mira Apartments crane, 20-story 320 W. South Street apartment crane, Rockaway apartments crane, and the two on the far right are the two cranes for the two Weld 20-story apartment towers.

Crane 6 should be up soon, that one will be for the West End II apartment complex across the tracks from the Raleigh Union Station.  

[CLT @❤️]

"View looking south from Capital Boulevard into Raleigh, 18 years apart" 

Photo cred. RaleighSkyline.com 

[CLT @❤️]

Cred.
RaleighSkyline.com

[carolina1792]

North Hills/Midtown is turning into a  high density corridor west to east. I nearly forgot there's several towers under construction at the moment. 

 

Below image is 1000 Social a 12-story office tower that is part of a $2 billion development project that will include several towers and behind that is a 17-story tower under construction that will be the first phase of the North Hills Innovation District. Basically North Hills is expanding east now. 

 

[KJHburg]

about the new Raleigh Bus Rapid Transit line

from the Triangle Biz Journal about the New Bern Ave BRT line

""Construction on a long-planned public transit project that will connect four key corridors throughout Wake County could start by the end of this year.

Het Patel, project manager for the Bus Rapid Transit project (BRT) with the City of Raleigh, said the city will be able to seek construction bids after October. The remaining piece before the bid process is getting final approval from the North Carolina Department of Transportation on the project design, which should happen this month, according to Patel.

After a 30-day bid period, the city will be able to select a company, award the bid and move ahead to construction.  The first corridor to be built will be the New Bern corridor, which stretches for 5.39 miles from Downtown Raleigh at the GoRaleigh station along Wilmington Street east to the intersection of New Bern Avenue and New Hope Road."

 

should open by Fall 2025 

Since this is a high rise thread about Charlotte and Raleigh I will post this too.  Greystar is proposing a 30 plus story apartment tower downtown as a city private partnership.

This development team was just picked for the project including local developers to Raleigh and Greystar

Redevelopment of Moore Square East and South - Loden East RFP (usgovcloudapi.net)

[carolina1792]

Another filing for a new 20-story tower in downtown Raleigh. 200 West Morgan Street, 279 apartments. Same block as the Campbell University Law School. Doesn't seem terrible unique in design but does add density and housing.

 

 

[carolinaboy]

6 hours ago, carolina1792 said:

Another filing for a new 20-story tower in downtown Raleigh. 200 West Morgan Street, 279 apartments. Same block as the Campbell University Law School. Doesn't seem terrible unique in design but does add density and housing.

 

 

I have a close friend who works for the city of Raleigh. If some of the (mostly unannounced) projects he has told me about begin construction, Raleigh will be almost unrecognizable 5 to 8 years from now. Congratulations. Raleigh seems about to takeoff.

[carolina1792]

A very skinny 16-story hotel maybe coming to downtown Raleigh in the Prince Hall Historic District.  A 6 story hotel was supposed to be built next door but that was cancelled I'm not sure if this hotel project is related.  Just a block away from the future 550-room Omni Hotel. 

[carolinaboy]

A clarification to my post above...........most of what I have been told about is all forms of residential including many high-rises with retail in downtown or very close. I was told a goal was to increase density specifically in downtown and the city was encouraging developers to build "up" to the extent possible. I was told that as Wake County was now the most populated county out of market developers had been looking for projects.

[KJHburg]

Charlotte and Raleigh skylines and how they got there and where they are going.

Raleigh and Charlotte: A Tale of Two Skylines (theassemblync.com)

[KJHburg]

The 2 Raleigh skylines I saw on social media.  

Upper is downtown from L to R (tallest buildings only)   400H new 20 story far left, 19 story Pendo 301 Hillsborough, 30 story Wells Fargo Capitol Tower,  tallest is PNC Tower mixed use condos and office space 32 stories 538 feet tallest building outside of CLT,  Progress Duke Energy Plaza white bldg,  2 Hannover Square aka Truist Bank brick bldg, 29 stories, last building on right is their 17 story Marriott. 

Lower photo is the North Hills Midtown skyline

first tall building is 18 story Bank of America tower, 17 story Captrust tower, tallest building outside of downtown The Eastern 36 story apartment tower,  20 story Advance Auto tower,  rest to right are apartment towers including the Cardinal a seniors only tower. 

 

[Norm2]

Charlotte has 2 or 3 skylines, depending on if you count Up too/South End as one or two.... plus Ballantyne. I wish South Park would crow a little taller than it is now.

[KJHburg]

Ballantyne for sure has a skyline now with these recent high rise completions and now a 20 plus story apartment tower in the Bowl underway.  When you come around the curve on 485, their skyline shows off.  Southpark does have one too just not as tall but makes up for in number of buildings.  I would count uptown as one and Southend as another but will really be blurred once Queensbridge towers are built.   But maybe  Midtown skyline focusing on Morhead and the Pearl is developing too. 

[Crucial_Infra]

Drove on the beltline in Raleigh for the first time in a year and man the high-rise development in North Hills visible from the highway creates an atmosphere not felt anywhere else in North Carolina at the moment. The towers mixed with the dense tree canopy in that stretch feels very much like something you’d see on the Capital Beltway outside D.C.  

[KJHburg]

5 hours ago, Crucial_Infra said:

Drove on the beltline in Raleigh for the first time in a year and man the high-rise development in North Hills visible from the highway creates an atmosphere not felt anywhere else in North Carolina at the moment. The towers mixed with the dense tree canopy in that stretch feels very much like something you’d see on the Capital Beltway outside D.C.  

I often compare it to the Perimeter Center area of Atlanta or like you said the Tysons Corner area you come around the Beltline and all of sudden you see a forest of high rises amongst the trees.  

[Crucial_Infra]

On 11/10/2023 at 1:56 PM, Crucial_Infra said:

Drove on the beltline in Raleigh for the first time in a year and man the high-rise development in North Hills visible from the highway creates an atmosphere not felt anywhere else in North Carolina at the moment. The towers mixed with the dense tree canopy in that stretch feels very much like something you’d see on the Capital Beltway outside D.C.  

Was back in Raleigh again and grabbed a few  shots coming and going.