New Arena

[carolinaboy]

Can we put discussion of the possible new arena here instead of in the Off-Topic or Scope threads?

Edited April 22, 2019 by carolinaboy

[carolinaboy]

Does anyone think any of these sites are suitable?

 I would choose #2 the Scope Site.

• Proximity to existing light rail
• Underground parking existing
• Adjacent lot to the east could support a new parking deck if necessary
• The center (basically) of downtown
• Proximity to hotels
• Some distance (currently) to surface water
• If you draw a square around the perimeter of Scope the area is approximately 300,000 sf. An arena could fit on the site without disturbing Chrysler Hall and the VA Symphony practice facility could be built. (Raleigh's arena covers a little bit more than 300,000 sf of land area)
• Economic engine for downtown
• I realize Scope is an architectural icon but, it is old, outdated and expensive to upgrade in it's current form. Perhaps a new arena design could pay homage to Scope in form or materials?
• Could expedite St Paul's redevelopment/revitalization

[vdogg]

Well, I mean, the topics are kinda all jumbled together at the moment. It's hard to make a dedicated arena thread because Norfolk hasn't made a decision on a direction yet. If they choose to tear down the scope, then the new arena and adjacent renovations would kind of fall under the same topic since they'd generally be talked about together. If they choose a completely different site, then a separate thread is warranted. I was kinda holding off until they made a final decision on the location.

[BFG]

I have a feeling that Norfolk will try to get this arena downtown, near light rail and entertainment options in a rising downtown. Unfortunately, unless they knock out a city block, the only two sites I see working are Scope or the hotel across the street. The latter would require rerouting or closing the north side of Monticello, but that was also a proposed site had Norfolk landed the "Rhinos" NHL team in the late-90s. The former means no more Admirals games for a couple years, and possibly losing the MEAC tournament, unless they move it to NSU or Hampton Coliseum. I don't see the MEAC going to The Ted just to stay in town for a few years.

Anyway, I used Sacramento's new arena for reference. It looks like it fits on the Scope site, although I'd hate to see that design go. If they demolish the hotel and close off Monticello, Scope gets a new life as a convention center, museum, or maybe someone could be clever enough to repurpose it the way they did Selden Arcade. That said, all the parking garages are south of Brambleton, so a pedestrian bridge would be a must.

[urbanlife]

I am actually surprised Norfolk has never built a legitimate convention center, those are typically much more useful for a city than any sports team.

[BFG]

About 7 or 8 years ago, when the city was trying to decide what to do with Waterside, a convention center was proposed for the site. I think that was best idea out of the half-dozen or so that were pitched. As much as I don't think every city needs a large venue of that type, it does make sense for Norfolk to have one to lure more visitors.

[Virginia City]

Both VB and Hampton have convention centers. They are far enough away from each other that they don't eat into each others market share. Adding one in-between the two would be pointless and a waste of prime real estate.

[BFG]

Point taken.

For space and access to public transportation, I think demolishing Scope is the most feasible option for a downtown arena. I hate to see that happen, but it seems like it's the only plan that makes sense, since the land surrounding Harbor Park has been set aside for a casino and other developments. Personally, I would've allocated space in SPQ, primarily the parking lot behind the bus station, given its proximity to the Interstate, and the possibility of creating an off-ramp from 264 W at Tidewater Dr.

As for the MEAC tournament, I dunno how the powers that be feel, but I wonder if they'd be open to playing at The Ted? This contradicts my above idea that they probably wouldn't do that, but in doing some research, conferences playing in the home arena of another conference is not unheard of; the Sun Belt plays its tournament in the University of New Orleans's arena. UNO is a Southland school.

[HRVA]

While Military Circle was probably a long shot as a site for the new arena, Norfolk has put the former JC Penney up for sale. 

824 Midtown Sale Flyer

[urbanlife]

On 6/14/2019 at 10:38 PM, Virginia City said:

Both VB and Hampton have convention centers. They are far enough away from each other that they don't eat into each others market share. Adding one in-between the two would be pointless and a waste of prime real estate.

Maybe so, but the lack of one is a factor for Norfolk that misses out on those extra dollars from convention goers.

[Cjnfkvb]

On 6/16/2019 at 7:10 PM, urbanlife said:

Maybe so, but the lack of one is a factor for Norfolk that misses out on those extra dollars from convention goers.

And, I belive that is the reason they built the excange, which is in the main. When you also add the convention center across the street, and the exibition hall in scope plaza, there is alot of convention floorspace downtown. If norfolk can colaberate there venue's, they can host very large events. Just imaging what could be hosted if norfolk colaberated with virginia beach.

[urbanlife]

5 hours ago, Cjnfkvb said:

And, I belive that is the reason they built the excange, which is in the main. When you also add the convention center across the street, and the exibition hall in scope plaza, there is alot of convention floorspace downtown. If norfolk can colaberate there venue's, they can host very large events. Just imaging what could be hosted if norfolk colaberated with virginia beach.

If only there was some sort of rail line that connected the two where someone could ride from downtown Norfolk and hop off at the Convention Center in VB....I can't put my finger on it what could work, but some sort of people mover.

[carolinaboy]

14 hours ago, urbanlife said:

If only there was some sort of rail line that connected the two where someone could ride from downtown Norfolk and hop off at the Convention Center in VB....I can't put my finger on it what could work, but some sort of people mover.

Maglev?

[urbanlife]

9 hours ago, carolinaboy said:

Maglev?

Maybe tourist trolley busses running on their own road?

[Urbanlooker]

Just use school buses

[vdogg]

Looks like Richmond is trying to build the state's largest arena. It's a good looking plan. I think we could definitely pull something like that off here if the cities came together and pooled their resources.

 

[BFG]

That article seemed pointed, if not biased, focusing on the tax dollars portion. The writer also needs to update his info; Norfolk has since considered building a new arena since that February article. 

Edited August 11, 2019 by BFG

[vdogg]

8 hours ago, BFG said:

That article seemed pointed, if not biased, focusing on the tax dollars portion. The writer also needs to update his info; Norfolk has since considered building a new arena since that February article. 

Yeah, that particular source is usually against everything. I just kind of ignored it and read the details, and it looks like something that could work here. 

[Norfolk757Kid]

If Norfolk goes long with a new arena at Military Circle, then what happens to Scope?

[Norfolk757Kid]

Also I think questioning why the entire area has to be tied to one arena development plan is valid, and Richmond activists will probably fight for actual affordable housing in the plan.  

[Virginia City]

If Richmond ever builds a large arena then we will never build one. If there is already one large one in the either metro the other won't feel like it would be necessary to build a second.  Plus if Richmond builds one and gets a pro sports team for it I would get sick to my stomach.

[vdogg]

12 hours ago, Virginia City said:

If Richmond ever builds a large arena then we will never build one. If there is already one large one in the either metro the other won't feel like it would be necessary to build a second.  Plus if Richmond builds one and gets a pro sports team for it I would get sick to my stomach.

That's not at all true. You have large arenas in the same city and they do fine. An 18,000 seat arena in a city 1.5-2 hrs away will have a negligible effect. It's all about the types of acts and events that they book for the arena.

[BFG]

57 minutes ago, vdogg said:

That's not at all true. You have large arenas in the same city and they do fine. An 18,000 seat arena in a city 1.5-2 hrs away will have a negligible effect. It's all about the types of acts and events that they book for the arena.

Yeah...OKC and Tulsa are very comparable in size to the HR and RVA market sizes, and are also about an hour and a half from one another. Both have modern, larger arenas. Charlotte, Greensboro, and Raleigh come to mind as well, although the G-Boro Coliseum is much older.   

I don’t think Richmond’s plan jeopardizes Norfolk’s potential arena. I don’t think their name comes up too often in potential NBA cities the way ours does either. 

Edited August 13, 2019 by BFG

[Virginia City]

13 hours ago, vdogg said:

That's not at all true. You have large arenas in the same city and they do fine. An 18,000 seat arena in a city 1.5-2 hrs away will have a negligible effect. It's all about the types of acts and events that they book for the arena.

I'm not saying they couldn't do it, I'm saying they wouldn't. Maybe that's just my pessimism. 

[BFG]

I've said before that anytime this IG account drops something, a big story usually follows within the next couple months. I think we could be close to the next developments on a new arena, at the very least a proposal.

If it's my money, I say get Bruce Thompson in on this; when VB was deciding between the USM and (I think) WM Jordan plans, he was on the WM Jordan team. Go to Dollar Tree for naming rights (say $5M/20 years), then implement a hotel/restaurant/rental car tax of 2-3%, and maybe a sales tax increase of a half-percent. I'd do everything to avoid another property tax increase.

It would be even better if all seven cities did the same thing, with the extra sales tax going towards this. But that would make too much sense, and I know at least one city that would cry foul. I think part of the reason the Rhinos NHL plans fell through was because the other cities didn't want to chip in for an arena.