LOCAL and Florida Politics

[spenser1058]

One other thought on the subject, and to consider maybe we have our priorities backward, comes from Father Casey, a Franciscan friar and Catholic priest (he’s also young and often has an interesting perspective on the Catholic viewpoint):

 

[spenser1058]

Folks, this is huge. For the first time in a long time, Florida Democrats will be competing in EVERY FL House and FL Senate district. 

The people are fed up to here with the incompetence in Tallahassee and are ready to “FIX IT, FLORIDA!”

 

[spenser1058]

8 hours ago, popsiclebrandon said:

Good thing Buddy isn't up for re-election now. I don't think he'd survive his complicity in his police force's brutality on peaceful protestors. This better be his last term.

Apparently, St. Buddy (who most here at Orlando UP regard as Practically Perfect In Every Way) has heard @popsiclebrandon ‘s concern:

 

[popsiclebrandon]

13 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Apparently, St. Buddy (who most here at Orlando UP regard as Practically Perfect In Every Way) has heard @popsiclebrandon ‘s concern:

 

Lets see what actually happens. The budget allocations need to drastically change and clear policies need to go into place. Would love to see brutality settlements come out of officer pension funds. Maybe if it cost them something they'd stop doing it.

[spenser1058]

19 minutes ago, popsiclebrandon said:

Lets see what actually happens. The budget allocations need to drastically change and clear policies need to go into place. Would love to see brutality settlements come out of officer pension funds. Maybe if it cost them something they'd stop doing it.

Buddy has never been one to cross the PBA (except on budgets when he spent too much money on developers and the DeVos clan) so this will be interesting.

[spenser1058]

Going into debt on this expansion is absurd, but it brings up a larger point. Given the breakdown of the parties these days, we are well past the point where our local officials have to pander to the tourism and development communities in order to be elected.

Like most urban areas, our voters reflexively vote Democratic (that’s how we get questionable folks like Rick Singh in office). Unless a Democratic candidate is a serial killer, (s)he can be elected no matter how much money is thrown by moneyed interests at the opponent.

The special election that gave us Buddy didn’t leave much time to reflect on that new reality, nor did most of us realize just how much a

DINO he was at the time.

In Jerry’s case, I think he’s old enough he’s still worries when Republicans were an issue here, even though they put up only token opposition to him and he cruised to election.

We are now one of the largest counties in the US and it’s time for our elected officials to start representing people instead of those who have money to throw around.

 

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/coronavirus/os-ne-coronavirus-convention-center-expansion-20200605-gbjvsev4ybgfbjd7rvwfvipf5m-story.html

From the Sentinel 

 

 

[Jerry95]

21 hours ago, JFW657 said:

We are just lucky we haven't had that kind of violence around here and that says something about our city, our police and its leadership.

If that kind of nonsense starts around here, it won't be because of the police, it will be because of the attitude of entitlement that has taken over the national psyche over the past few years.

I encourage you to head downtown or to any protest and see the people behind the line. Our fellow residents, those protesting for a cause that has garnered international support, are the reason we haven't had violence and rioting downtown. The status quo works for some but it leaves so many people behind. I hope you're as passionate about protecting and looking out for people and passionate about people to exercising their rights as you are about protecting property. I hope you meet people who have tried their best to just get by who can't because our society doesn't look out for people the way we think it does. We can't fall for the rhetoric that it's us or them, we need to be united.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Jerry95

[spenser1058]

https://twitter.com/citybeautiful/status/1268950713071284226?s=21

[popsiclebrandon]

9 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

https://twitter.com/citybeautiful/status/1268950713071284226?s=21

What did this say? Its deleted.

[JFW657]

28 minutes ago, Jerry95 said:

I encourage you to head downtown or to any protest and see the people behind the line. Our fellow residents, those protesting for a cause that has garnered international support, are the reason we haven't had violence and rioting downtown. The status quo works for some but it leaves so many people behind. I hope you're as passionate about protecting and looking out for people and passionate about people to exercising their rights as you are about protecting property. I hope you meet people who have tried their best to just get by who can't because our society doesn't look out for people the way we think it does. We can't fall for the rhetoric that it's us or them, we need to be united.

Are not the two inter-related and intertwined?

Are property owners not also people and do they not also have the right to be protected from financial and personal loss?

I have no problem with peaceful protest, but when it turns into smashing windows, looting and setting buildings on fire, the distinction between the legitimate protest and the violence becomes blurred.

We all understand there's a difference, but that doesn't remedy anything.

Not talking about it certainly doesn't do any good. 

[spenser1058]

5 minutes ago, popsiclebrandon said:

What did this say? Its deleted.

It notes the City is joining President Obama’s My Brother’s Keeper Alliance

19 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

One other thought on the subject, and to consider maybe we have our priorities backward, comes from Father Casey, a Franciscan friar and Catholic priest (he’s also young and often has an interesting perspective on the Catholic viewpoint):

 

I think this sums it all up rather nicely.

[jack]

21 hours ago, JFW657 said:

As long as human beings comprise the workings of the system, it will never be anywhere close to perfect.

As long as human beings are involved in anything, there will be some level of abuse, corruption and inefficiency.

I'm not suggesting that we should just accept it, but marching in the streets and wreaking havoc on cities and lives accomplishes absolutely ZERO other than making the participants feel good about themselves.

When this sturm und drang is all over, everything will go back to the same way it was.

Generally, you are right. Protests do not accomplish much. But like the protests in the 60's, when average Americans see their fellow citizens' rights trampled, the tide turns. I do not know if this will be different. But I have watched way to many videos in the past 24 hrs that makes my blood boil. 

[JFW657]

6 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

"It's horrible that property is being destroyed, but killing innocent black men has to stop!"

I think this sums it all up rather nicely.

I'm not trying to start anything here, but that is some good advice that too many young black men still need to take heed of as well.

I think the assumption behind that statement is that white people have declared open season on black men, but the reality is that young black men are many times more likely to be killed by other young black men than by anyone else. Including and especially by the police.

All I'm suggesting here is that some perspective be kept.

[jack]

16 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Apparently, St. Buddy (who most here at Orlando UP regard as Practically Perfect In Every Way) has heard @popsiclebrandon ‘s concern:

 

I still believe that congressional action will be to most effective by cleaning the civil rights act of 1871 and something similar at the state level. 

[Jerry95]

8 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Are not the two inter-related and intertwined?

Are property owners not also people and do they not also have the right to be protected from financial and personal loss?

I have no problem with peaceful protest, but when it turns into smashing windows, looting and setting buildings on fire, the distinction between the legitimate protest and the violence becomes blurred.

We all understand there's a difference, but that doesn't remedy anything.

Not talking about it certainly doesn't do any good. 

You are right,  Property owners are people. Black men and women are people. Homeless folks are people. You and I and everyone reading this are people. What seems to be missing in all this is that Property Owners are able to insure their property and replace items like for like and carry on. We can't do that with our mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters when they're unjustly taken from us, with no fair trial and no justice.

Yes property owners should be protected, but if you look at all of the videos surfacing property owners aren't under attack (they were over the weekend). Right now those who wish to demonstrate peacefully are being attacked with some receiving permanent loss of sight and other injuries. And the videos keep pouring in. We can't let broken windows counter for broken lives.

There are many ways to take action. Protest, contact your representatives, vote, donate. Do whichever you feel is necessary to whichever causes you feel passionate about (Smoke and Donuts had their generator stolen).

[jack]

2 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

I'm not trying to start anything here, but that is some good advice that too many young black men still need to take heed of as well.

I think the assumption behind that statement is that white people have declared open season on black men, but the reality is that young black men are many times more likely to be killed by other young black men than by anyone else. Including and especially by the police.

All I'm suggesting here is that some perspective be kept.

It is irrelevant. Criminal acts committed by citizens are tragic, but act committed by the state are a nation emergency. 

[JFW657]

24 minutes ago, Jerry95 said:

You are right,  Property owners are people. Black men and women are people. Homeless folks are people. You and I and everyone reading this are people. What seems to be missing in all this is that Property Owners are able to insure their property and replace items like for like and carry on. We can't do that with our mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters when they're unjustly taken from us, with no fair trial and no justice.

Yes property owners should be protected, but if you look at all of the videos surfacing property owners aren't under attack (they were over the weekend). Right now those who wish to demonstrate peacefully are being attacked with some receiving permanent loss of sight and other injuries. And the videos keep pouring in. We can't let broken windows counter for broken lives.

There are many ways to take action. Protest, contact your representatives, vote, donate. Do whichever you feel is necessary to whichever causes you feel passionate about (Smoke and Donuts had their generator stolen).

That is the assumption, but not a guarantee or always the reality.

Having insurance doesn't necessarily fix everything or always restore these owners' lives back to normal. And when the destruction takes place within the poor, already under served neighborhoods, often times the destroyed businesses close for good and never return. This leaves the already under served residents with even fewer options.

I will never accept the idea that there is ANY excuse or justification for property destruction, looting and burning no matter what the cause behind the civil unrest.

Lives can be destroyed in other ways than losing a family member.

[spenser1058]

OC Mayor Jerry Demings to President Trump: “Ummmm, NO”:

 

[JFW657]

30 minutes ago, jack said:

It is irrelevant. Criminal acts committed by citizens are tragic, but act committed by the state are a nation emergency. 

What I think is relevant, is that the narrative seems to be that the police in general are inherently bad and every department nationwide needs to be reworked from top to bottom. 

I don't believe that's true. Given the difficult job they have to do and the kinds of people they have to deal with, I think overall they do an admirable job.

A national emergency would be if similar incidents involving custody related deaths were happening on a daily or weekly basis from  one coast to the other.  

Are there bad apples? Of course. I've encountered one or two in my life and I'm white. But as I've said before, until we replace humans with RoboCops, it's something we're just going to have to continue to grapple with as best we can. 

Rioting is not going to change or improve human nature or create a way to weed out potentially bad cops.

Just my thoughts, etc.

[spenser1058]

https://paradoxologies.org/2010/08/28/martin-luther-king-jr-on-complacency-mlk/

[Jerry95]

10 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

What I think is relevant, is that the narrative seems to be that the police in general are inherently bad and every department nationwide needs to be reworked from top to bottom. 

I don't believe that's true. Given the difficult job they have to do and the kinds of people they have to deal with, I think overall they do an admirable job.

A national emergency would be if similar incidents involving custody related deaths were happening on a daily or weekly basis from  one coast to the other.  

Are there bad apples? Of course. I've encountered one or two in my life and I'm white. But as I've said before, until we replace humans with RoboCops, it's something we're just going to have to continue to grapple with as best we can. 

Rioting is not going to change or improve human nature or create a way to weed out potentially bad cops.

Just my thoughts, etc.

I would like to believe that most cops are compassionate human beings. However, when you look at the video from Buffalo where the elderly man is pushed to the ground and not a single officer rushes to help a man bleeding from his head. Where the department issued a statement saying he "tripped and fell' and amended it. Or here in Orlando where OPD revised a statement removing a line about an officer being injured, leading to believe he wasn't. Public perception is everything. And the public across the entire country have concerns about their police departments and policies. I refuse to believe this is the best we can get. 

There are good cops out there. The question everyone is asking them is will they stand up and call out their fellows who act with bias, who want to cause more harm than peace, who have let the power get to their head, or will they look away. And yes, police deal with some of the worst parts of our society on a daily basis. But so do doctors, nurses, EMT and other first responders. They're still supported in all of this. 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Jerry95

[JFW657]

1 minute ago, Jerry95 said:

I would like to believe that most cops are compassionate human beings. However, when you look at the video from Buffalo where the elderly man is pushed to the ground and not a single officer rushes to help a man bleeding from his head. Where the department issued a statement saying he "tripped and fell' and amended it. Or here in Orlando where OPD revised a statement removing a line about an officer being injured, leading to believe he wasn't. Public perception is everything. And the public across the entire country have concerns about their police departments and policies. I refuse to believe this is the best we can get. 

There are good cops out there. The question everyone is asking them is will they stand up and call out their fellows who act with bias, who want to cause more harm than peace, who have let the power get to their head, or will they look away. And yes, police deal with some of the worst parts of our society on a daily basis. But so do doctors, nurses, EMT and other first responders. They're still supported in all of this. 

All legitimate concerns.

But re: the cops you mention in the videos seen pushing people down, etc.... should we judge them on one incident that happened in the middle of a heated situation in which the cops were likely as scared and on edge as the protesters, or even more so given how outnumbered they were? Are these "problem cops" or are they normally valued and respected members of their dept who nobody wants to lose over one over reaction in the heat of an extreme situation? How much would it cost in terms of time, effort and loss of service to train a new rookie to take the place of a veteran cop fired over one out of character incident?

There are just sooooooo many complex, intricate little details and what if's to consider, and hugely complex dynamics at play in all of these issues. They require a lot of people thinking long and hard about a lot of things.

My main point in all of this, is that I am attempting to see things from both sides as clearly and unbiased as I can

I am trying to put myself in the shoes of the cops and ask myself why they reacted a certain way in a certain situation. Was there something that we don't see in the video? Did they mistake one person for another? Did the person who got treated rough do something like spit on them or throw something at them before the camera was on them? 

I have never been comfortable with jumping to conclusions about anything.

[nite owℓ]

22 hours ago, popsiclebrandon said:

Come on man. Name me one shop downtown that had their place smashed up or anything. It isn't happening. The police though are tear gassing peaceful protestors and tasing people walking back to their homes and cars.  We have a policing problem here, not a rioting problem. But if they keep escalating things we will have that and I won't blame anyone.

From the OS:

Someone smashed a window at the Metropolitan Dog Spa on Rosalind and Washington, prompting furious protesters to shout, “Go home! Not in our community!” (*kudos*)

Just before 11 p.m., protestors at Church Street and Garland Avenue threw concrete rocks from I-4 construction at police officers (), who threw tear gas canisters and pulled out their pellet guns. Everyone scattered.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-ne-orlando-protests-george-floyd-20200531-6rhwk77wxncchpk3kau3adhbyy-story.html

 

I hate to sound like a certain someone, but there are very fine people on both sides (protesters and police). People with ulterior motives infiltrate either group so the bad apples are the problem: rioters and abusive cops. The same way the aforementioned protesters spoke up in opposition to a troublemaker is the same way that police officers should be calling each other out for the f**kery that we've seen committed against people under arrest and peaceful protesters. We need introspection & examination, otherwise we're turning a blind eye against the underlying issues within our own tribe. It shouldn't be Us vs Them unless the guilty party is willful and deliberate in their actions.

I once asked a coworker who was a former LEO what was the thinking behind shooting someone dead vs in the leg and she said they're trained to aim for "center mass". To paraphrase, she came across a few officers who look at everyone as either LEO or civilian - no in between for some of them. Makes me wonder if that kind of training only encourages officers (especially those with implicit bias) to view the general public as target practice or as problems waiting to happen. Deescalation techniques should be part of training and enforcement whenever possible.

From what I've seen, the protests have been peaceful overall and it's amazing to see the young people getting involved.

[spenser1058]

Hmmmm....

[nite owℓ]

9 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

All legitimate concerns.

But re: the cops you mention in the videos seen pushing people down, etc.... should we judge them on one incident that happened in the middle of a heated situation in which the cops were likely as scared and on edge as the protesters, or even more so given how outnumbered they were? Are these "problem cops" or are they normally valued and respected members of their dept who nobody wants to lose over one over reaction in the heat of an extreme situation? How much would it cost in terms of time, effort and loss of service to train a new rookie to take the place of a veteran cop fired over one out of character incident?

There are just sooooooo many complex, intricate little details and what if's to consider, and hugely complex dynamics at play in all of these issues. They require a lot of people thinking long and hard about a lot of things.

My main point in all of this, is that I am attempting to see things from both sides as clearly and unbiased as I can

I am trying to put myself in the shoes of the cops and ask myself why they reacted a certain way in a certain situation. Was there something that we don't see in the video? Did they mistake one person for another? Did the person who got treated rough do something like spit on them or throw something at them before the camera was on them? 

I have never been comfortable with jumping to conclusions about anything.

I totally understand if LEO are defending themselves from being attacked, but I've also seen too many videos of victims being assaulted for no reason. Unless we call out bad behavior from both sides, nothing will change.