Economic Development

[I am Reality]

6 minutes ago, I am Reality said:

How do I respond to someone who keeps pretending like he blocked me?

Multiple times.

Let me give it a try...

I'd bet I make 2-3X what you make and I live in an affluent area.

I don't live in a bubble though.

And I don't turn a blind eye to less fortunate people.

Ignore the many, many low-wage local residents struggling just to get by.

Make a joke about it.

Count the number of floors on buildings or the height of a freaking highway.

Because that is what matters in life. 

Shame on you. 

Get your head right.

And no one needs to tell me they disgree.  That's what everyone does.  I get it.

Hank is your leader and everyone else are sheep. What Hank says goes.  Followers.

[prahaboheme]

10 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

WFTV updates plans for Universal and a fourth park, which we already knew. What's important for our purposes here is the confirmation that, increasingly, the design phase for theme parks is  taking place in Orlando. That's a spinoff business which is definitely not minimum wage.

It's also Urban Econ 101: we're seeing a clustering effect of an industry (theme park/attraction design in this case) arising in a specific city because of a unique competence we have. It's something that won't happen in Austin or Philly because we've spent 50 years developing the talent and technology. We should do everything possible to provide incentives for companies like Birket in WG to grow right here.

http://amp.wftv.com/www.wftv.com/news/local/universal-studios-adding-major-new-attractions-to-its-orlando-theme-park/730208844?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=rare-america&utm_campaign=o-media

From Channel 9/WFTV

There has also been a long rumor that both Universal and Disney have been vying for the rights to Lord of the Rings franchise to bring a themed environment to the parks.

The Tolkien estate is notoriously hawkish on the LOTR brand and those talks have gone nowhere in the past.

Now with an Amazon TV series in the works, said to be the costliest TV production in history (over 1 billion) it seems the Tolkien estate is more willing to cede the rights and give some artistic and creative license. If the series is a hit like the movies were, I could absolutely see this in one of the parks in the future. This would easily be the costliest themed land ever.

**watch this space**

[jgardnerucf]

Damn those popsicle stick apts infringinging the space. And that damn old Westin. And that damn topgolf ruining the sightlines in a dumb location.   

*drunk and shakes fist*!

[bqknight]

23 hours ago, I am Reality said:

How do I respond to someone who keeps pretending like he blocked me?

Multiple times.

Let me give it a try...

I'd bet I make 2-3X what you make and I live in an affluent area.

I don't live in a bubble though.

And I don't turn a blind eye to less fortunate people.

Ignore the many, many low-wage local residents struggling just to get by.

Make a joke about it.

Count the number of floors on buildings or the height of a freaking highway.

Because that is what matters in life. 

Shame on you. 

Get your head right.

Is there a reason you type like that one annoying friend everyone has that needs to text a thought one word at a time in separate texts?

Anyway - to the Universal Park being designed here - yes. I personally know someone who moved from Chicago to take a job with Universal Creative. 

[HankStrong]

This post is directly to @I am Reality   I only see your posts when they are quoted (like the post directly above mine)  I have *tried* to not see them at all, but apparently this forum software will always show quotes.  It also pings me when you quote me, but thankfully I don't see those actual posts and will continue to ignore the pings.

I see in the post by bqknight that you would like to date me or pull my pigtails or something childish like that.  I'm not sure why I'm so appealing, but hey, it's just how I am.  I am rather dreamy.  I'm not sure how you could possibly assess my net worth or salary from my posts.  Personally, I think someone's net worth and/or current salary have very little to do with their worth as living/breathing human being.  My grandma was a sweet little Southern lady and she used to say "Just because you're poor, that doesn't make you trash and just because you're trashy, that certainly doesn't mean you are poor."  I like that viewpoint, although my nana was an extremely sweet lady and I'm very biased about how cool she was.  I also have no interest in getting into a salary measuring contest with an internet troll.  I make 423 ba-jillion dollars a day and that must be true because I said it on the internet.  In truth, though, I don't have the slightest interest in how much or little you make.  Just saying'.

The most interesting thing since you've joined our forum is how united the posters have become about the low quality of your angry and hostile posts.  You slam people for things and then excuse yourself for the exact same things by saying you didn't have time to research this or that OR that you're not an expert in that field, you just made a simple comment.  I'm just guessing here, but you'd probably catch more flies with some sweet tupelo honey instead of the dragon urine you're currently using.

Peace out.  Live long and prosper.

Edited April 12, 2018 by HankStrong

[idroveazamboni]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/brinkmann-on-business/os-bz-wyndham-hotel-headquarters-20180410-story.html

[spenser1058]

29 minutes ago, HankStrong said:

This post is directly to @I am Reality   I only see your posts when they are quoted (like the post directly above mine)  I have *tried* to not see them at all, but apparently this forum software will always show quotes.  It also pings me when you quote me, but thankfully I don't see those actual posts and will continue to ignore the pings.

I see in the post by bqknight that you would like to date me or pull my pigtails or something childish like that.  I'm not sure why I'm so appealing, but hey, it's just how I am.  I am rather dreamy.  I'm not sure how you could possibly assess my net worth or salary from my posts.  Personally, I think someone's net worth and/or current salary have very little to do with their worth as living/breathing human being.  My grandma was a sweet little Southern lady and she used to say "Just because you're poor, that doesn't make you trash and just because you're trashy, that certainly doesn't mean you are poor."  I like that viewpoint, although my nana was an extremely sweet lady and I'm very biased about how cool she was.  I also have no interest in getting into a salary measuring contest with an internet troll.  I make 423 ba-jillion dollars a day and that must be true because I said it on the internet.  In truth, though, I don't have the slightest interest in how much or little you make.  Just saying'.

The most interesting thing since you've joined our forum is how united the posters have become about the low quality of your angry and hostile posts.  You slam people for things and then excuse yourself for the exact same things by saying you didn't have time to research this or that OR that you're not an expert in that field, you just made a simple comment.  I'm just guessing here, but you'd probably catch more flies with some sweet tupelo honey instead of the dragon urine you're currently using.

Peace out.  Live long and prosper.

Oh my, Tupelo? I have relatives in Tupelo on my daddy's mama's side. Hey, Cousin Hank!

[I am Reality]

1 hour ago, HankStrong said:

This post is directly to @I am Reality   I only see your posts when they are quoted (like the post directly above mine)  I have *tried* to not see them at all, but apparently this forum software will always show quotes.  It also pings me when you quote me, but thankfully I don't see those actual posts and will continue to ignore the pings.

I see in the post by bqknight that you would like to date me or pull my pigtails or something childish like that.  I'm not sure why I'm so appealing, but hey, it's just how I am.  I am rather dreamy.  I'm not sure how you could possibly assess my net worth or salary from my posts.  Personally, I think someone's net worth and/or current salary have very little to do with their worth as living/breathing human being.  My grandma was a sweet little Southern lady and she used to say "Just because you're poor, that doesn't make you trash and just because you're trashy, that certainly doesn't mean you are poor."  I like that viewpoint, although my nana was an extremely sweet lady and I'm very biased about how cool she was.  I also have no interest in getting into a salary measuring contest with an internet troll.  I make 423 ba-jillion dollars a day and that must be true because I said it on the internet.  In truth, though, I don't have the slightest interest in how much or little you make.  Just saying'.

The most interesting thing since you've joined our forum is how united the posters have become about the low quality of your angry and hostile posts.  You slam people for things and then excuse yourself for the exact same things by saying you didn't have time to research this or that OR that you're not an expert in that field, you just made a simple comment.  I'm just guessing here, but you'd probably catch more flies with some sweet tupelo honey instead of the dragon urine you're currently using.

Peace out.  Live long and prosper.

No comments about how I space my posts? 

Because I've heard it's a real problem.

[I am Reality]

J & J announced a planned expansion in Lake Nona.  The expansion will likely lead to "dozens" of new, high-wage jobs.

Nice! 

[aent]

5 hours ago, I am Reality said:

J & J announced a planned expansion in Lake Nona.  The expansion will likely lead to "dozens" of new, high-wage jobs.

Nice! 

I'm curious, as one of the only anti-tourist persons in Orlando, do you think Universal new theme parks are going to make more or less than a dozen new high paying jobs?

[HankStrong]

17 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Oh my, Tupelo? I have relatives in Tupelo on my daddy's mama's side. Hey, Cousin Hank!

COUSIN SPENSER!!!  So great to find this out!

 

 

Interestingly, they call it Tupelo honey because it is made from pollen from the Tupelo Tree (a swampy dogwood tree) in GA & FL along the Altamaha & Apalachicola Rivers.  I also know it is delicious! 

https://savannahbee.com/tupelo

I did drive through Tupelo, MS just because it was the birthplace of Elvis many years ago.  That was a road trip to impress a girl.  She was a girl that I should've ignored instead of driving 2,500 miles to impress.  You live, you learn.   Although, I did get to see some tiny places that I've never visited again.

Edited April 13, 2018 by HankStrong

[I am Reality]

10 hours ago, aent said:

I'm curious, as one of the only anti-tourist persons in Orlando, do you think Universal new theme parks are going to make more or less than a dozen new high paying jobs?

Is this a joke?  If I were 22, had no family, lived with roommates, and don't think/care about supporting a family at age 50,  I would be estactic about the Universal Jobs.

I just can't keep arguing with people over what constitutes a good job.  Everyone will surely disagree with me and attack me again.  I can only go by economic figures saying a disproportionate number of residents earn too little and many can't afford homes. I am not making this up.  It is a well-publicized fact. Remember the housing bust?  That killed Orlando (and Vegas) more than other big cities because residents don't make enough money.  Quite honestly, I was up north when the housing bubble burst.  It was no big deal.  Down here, it was devastating. 

I apparently have a VERY different idea of good jobs than everyone else.  SpaceX announced 700 new jobs at a new facility in CA.  Those are good jobs.  LabCorp announced 400+ admin & drug development jobs in Raleigh.  Those are good jobs. Comcast just announced 300 new jobs at Telemundo's new $250 million HQ.  Those are good jobs.

The NATIONAL unemployment rate is 4.0 or 4.1%.  Wall Street is at near-record highs.  The tax cut (which I personally hate) seems to be creating more jobs.  Jobs are plentiful nationally.  Do I feel lucky to have more low-paying Universal jobs?  Not at all.  

Ever see the movie Florida Project?  

No need to disagree with me.  

It's assumed. 

 

[aent]

11 hours ago, I am Reality said:

Is this a joke?  If I were 22, had no family, lived with roommates, and don't think/care about supporting a family at age 50,  I would be estactic about the Universal Jobs.

I just can't keep arguing with people over what constitutes a good job.  Everyone will surely disagree with me and attack me again.  I can only go by economic figures saying a disproportionate number of residents earn too little and many can't afford homes. I am not making this up.  It is a well-publicized fact. Remember the housing bust?  That killed Orlando (and Vegas) more than other big cities because residents don't make enough money.  Quite honestly, I was up north when the housing bubble burst.  It was no big deal.  Down here, it was devastating. 

I apparently have a VERY different idea of good jobs than everyone else.  SpaceX announced 700 new jobs at a new facility in CA.  Those are good jobs.  LabCorp announced 400+ admin & drug development jobs in Raleigh.  Those are good jobs. Comcast just announced 300 new jobs at Telemundo's new $250 million HQ.  Those are good jobs.

The NATIONAL unemployment rate is 4.0 or 4.1%.  Wall Street is at near-record highs.  The tax cut (which I personally hate) seems to be creating more jobs.  Jobs are plentiful nationally.  Do I feel lucky to have more low-paying Universal jobs?  Not at all.  

Ever see the movie Florida Project?  

No need to disagree with me.  

It's assumed. 

 

You should read my post again, more slowly and more carefully. Note the words high paying.

[AmIReal]

My typical lengthy screed...

Orlando is the 2^nd fastest growing metro in the nation and the fastest growing job market in the top 50 metros. Orlando added 42,000 jobs in 2017 and currently produces over 1000 jobs per week and the unemployment rate remains at nearly 3% (the lowest in the State).  

Orlando is the state’s 3^rd largest employer of tech workers and is 6^th in the nation in year over year (yoy) tech job growth. All 4 major markets in Florida (Miami, Tampa, Jax, Orlando) rank in top 50 tech job markets. Orlando is number 1 in average wage amongst the 4 ($78,500) and growing at over 12% over the past 5 years. Florida’s professional and tech industry is growing at a booming 4.5% and Orlando’s is at 6% (well over booming). The percentage of Florida job growth in professional and business services are greater than leisure and hospitality and only surpassed by construction  

Orange county has one of the lowest median ages in the state (34.9), which is driven by our huge university (go UCF) and disproportionate number of students. Also, our region has one of the largest populations of seniors in the country (go Lake County). Both of these unique groups play into calculating, and typically reduce, our median household income and is a good reason why that number is not the best metric to use for evaluation purposes.

Some may contend developers are passing us by, yet institutional investors drove investment sales volume over 4.2 million square feet in 2017 and investors sales increased by 5.5% yoy.

On the terrible tourist front, 2017 saw nearly 70 million visitors to Central Florida pumping over $60 billion into the local economy.  Orlando’s convention center is top 3 in the nation. This is revenue most communities would kill to get. If you doubt it tune into Travel network and watch the commercials for California, Michigan, North Carolina, Texas, Vegas, etc. MCO is the number 1 airport in the state (Sanford in #5), number 13 in the country and one of the fastest growing hubs for international travelers (though current political tensions have placed a damper on this). Furthermore, MCO is number 1 in customer satisfaction for mega-airports.

The Orlando economy is far from perfect- our largest employment sector is primarily low paying, but that is not as bad as often portrayed in the press. T&L employees in Orlando average $505/ week, 21^st of all metro areas. However, when cost of living adjusted we rank higher than the 20 above us except Gainesville, GA, Las Vegas and Nashville.

The Orlando economy is far from broken and is evolving at a breakneck pace. When you realize local leaders didn’t significantly push for economic diversification until late 90’s you get a better picture of just how far we have come.  When the current economic bubble bursts- and it will- Orlando is better suited to survive it then it has been in previous years. We have a long ways to go, but the trend is positive.

[spenser1058]

Looking for affordable housing solutions:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/classified/realestate/os-bz-affordable-housing-20180414-story,amp.html

From the Sentinel

[bqknight]

20 hours ago, aent said:

You should read my post again, more slowly and more carefully. Note the words high paying.

I don't think he gets that all these hospitality places also bring in high paying jobs. I was employed at a theme park and not in a "low paying" job. There's hundreds upon hundreds, likely thousands of good paying, salaried jobs from these parks. GMs at restaurants and hotels make good money too. 

[aent]

5 hours ago, bqknight said:

I don't think he gets that all these hospitality places also bring in high paying jobs. I was employed at a theme park and not in a "low paying" job. There's hundreds upon hundreds, likely thousands of good paying, salaried jobs from these parks. GMs at restaurants and hotels make good money too. 

Thats what I'm trying to get him to understand. I was also offered by Disney a tech job that was not a "low paying" job (I did not take it, I had multiple higher offers from other employers who were closer to me in East Orlando at the time, but I still heavily considered it because of the benefits and love of everyone for the mouse in spite of it paying less, no idea if I should have or not, I didn't stick at the job I did take instead of Disney as I didn't find it enjoyable, especially after a couple years, found out government contract work drove me nuts and made me even more into a libertarian)

8 hours ago, AmIReal said:

When the current economic bubble bursts- and it will- Orlando is better suited to survive it then it has been in previous years. We have a long ways to go, but the trend is positive.

And when places are having explosive growth, they generally are harder hit then places that have slower and steady growth. All the top growers were very hard hit, and when the bubble bursts, Orlando will have it worse than many others again, but the alternative is not to have the massive growth during the upswing. Ya know, tons of construction jobs can turn into none real fast when that bubble bursts, and all the people who moved here for all the opportunity suddenly can't find anything. At least, for the most part, Disney/Universal have been mostly steady jobs.

[I am Reality]

20 hours ago, bqknight said:

I don't think he gets that all these hospitality places also bring in high paying jobs. I was employed at a theme park and not in a "low paying" job. There's hundreds upon hundreds, likely thousands of good paying, salaried jobs from these parks. GMs at restaurants and hotels make good money too. 

A sampling of articles.  There are many, many more from lesser publications.  I only selected articles from well-regarded sources:

 

"In Disney World's Shadow, Homeless Families Struggle; Tourists Don't Have a Clue", AP, 4/24/14, article went viral nationwide

"Disney Workers Sick of Low Wages", Business Insider, 12/21/17

"Hard Times Depends on Where You Live", Brookings Institute, 6/28/09, Orlando's "economic specialization" in tourism caused the recession wreckage.

"Low Wages, High Rent:  Orlando Has a Problem", Orlando Sentinel, 4/18/17 

"Disney Park Staff Are Picketing for Better Pay as Profits Soar", Fortune Magazine, 2/27/18

"Disney World Has a Homeless Problem", Time Magazine, 4/25/14

"Orlando:  No. 1 in Tourism - Dead Last in Wages", Orlando Sentinel

"The Working Poor are the Backbone of Orlando's Tourism Economy", Bloomberg, 10/8/14, described the economic conditions as "the perfect storm for Central FL's working poor"; stated "The reason it becomes a potential problem for places like Orlando from a budgetary standpoint is that they don't have the money to build the infrastructure to attract well-educated workers." 

'Behind the Disney Magic, Reality Bites for Those Who Work There", Huffington Post, 6/24/14

"A Labor Battle at...Disney World??", The Nation, 1/9/18, stating "Unionized workers across Disney's Orlando properties are fighting for a living wage and a permanent place in the community." 

"Central Florida Below National Average in Wages", LA Times, 2/12/18

"Florida Metropolitan Areas Have Very Low Median Wages", study conducted by the Florida Policy Institute 

"Why Some Disney Employees Live in Cars, Motels", Bloomberg, 10/12/14

"The Poverty at Disney's Doorstep", The American Spectator, 2/2/18

"More than 1,000 Disney Workers Rally for Higher Wages", Orlando Rising, 10/19/17

"Rick Scott, Staff Are Delusional about FL's Low-Paying Wages", Orlando Sentinel

"At Disney, Battles Over $10 Wages and 50-Cent Raises Help Tell Orlando's Economic Tale". Orlando Sentinel, 12/6/17, states "average hourly wage" at Disney World is $13.34/hr

"State of Working in FL?  Great - If You've Got a Job Worth Having", Tampa Bay Times, 9/14/17, stating "With few good jobs, the FL economy is promoting low-wage and low-quality jobs at the expense of workers' economic security." 

"Florida's Low Wage Jobs Nothing to Brag About", Sun-Sentinel, 1/16/15

"Low Wages Cost Florida Taxpayers $11.4 Billion Yearly", Orlando Weekly, stating "Low wage individuals and families must supplement their low and unstable earnings by utilizing a large variety of public assistance programs." 

"Almost Half of FL Families Classified as Working Poor", Orlando Weekly, reports "a recent study from the United Way shows that 45% of households in FL and 43% in Orange Co. still find it impossible to obtain even the most basic necessities and the numbers show the problem is only getting worse."

"Study Reveals Disney's Low Wages Directly Hit Orlando Economy", 3/19/07, Study conducted by the Director of Research Institute for Social & Economic Policy, as well as a Rollins College economist

"Jobs in FL Cities Have the Lowest Pay in the Nation", Florida Politics, 7/7/16, stated "In Orlando, for example, the 3 occupations with the most jobs are "retail salespersons", "food preparation", and "waiters and waitresses", with 120,000 combined jobs and a $20,430 median pay.  "By contrast, the occupation with the most jobs in the San Jose market are "application software designers" and "systems software developers", with 70,000 combined jobs and a $140,000 median salary.

"Florida's Job Growth Mostly in Low-Wage Fields", Gainesville Sun, 10/19/17

Should I keep going?

Let the attacks begin! 

 

 

[I am Reality]

23 hours ago, AmIReal said:

My typical lengthy screed...

Orlando is the 2^nd fastest growing metro in the nation and the fastest growing job market in the top 50 metros. Orlando added 42,000 jobs in 2017 and currently produces over 1000 jobs per week and the unemployment rate remains at nearly 3% (the lowest in the State).  

Orlando is the state’s 3^rd largest employer of tech workers and is 6^th in the nation in year over year (yoy) tech job growth. All 4 major markets in Florida (Miami, Tampa, Jax, Orlando) rank in top 50 tech job markets. Orlando is number 1 in average wage amongst the 4 ($78,500) and growing at over 12% over the past 5 years. Florida’s professional and tech industry is growing at a booming 4.5% and Orlando’s is at 6% (well over booming). The percentage of Florida job growth in professional and business services are greater than leisure and hospitality and only surpassed by construction  

Orange county has one of the lowest median ages in the state (34.9), which is driven by our huge university (go UCF) and disproportionate number of students. Also, our region has one of the largest populations of seniors in the country (go Lake County). Both of these unique groups play into calculating, and typically reduce, our median household income and is a good reason why that number is not the best metric to use for evaluation purposes.

Some may contend developers are passing us by, yet institutional investors drove investment sales volume over 4.2 million square feet in 2017 and investors sales increased by 5.5% yoy.

On the terrible tourist front, 2017 saw nearly 70 million visitors to Central Florida pumping over $60 billion into the local economy.  Orlando’s convention center is top 3 in the nation. This is revenue most communities would kill to get. If you doubt it tune into Travel network and watch the commercials for California, Michigan, North Carolina, Texas, Vegas, etc. MCO is the number 1 airport in the state (Sanford in #5), number 13 in the country and one of the fastest growing hubs for international travelers (though current political tensions have placed a damper on this). Furthermore, MCO is number 1 in customer satisfaction for mega-airports.

The Orlando economy is far from perfect- our largest employment sector is primarily low paying, but that is not as bad as often portrayed in the press. T&L employees in Orlando average $505/ week, 21^st of all metro areas. However, when cost of living adjusted we rank higher than the 20 above us except Gainesville, GA, Las Vegas and Nashville.

The Orlando economy is far from broken and is evolving at a breakneck pace. When you realize local leaders didn’t significantly push for economic diversification until late 90’s you get a better picture of just how far we have come.  When the current economic bubble bursts- and it will- Orlando is better suited to survive it then it has been in previous years. We have a long ways to go, but the trend is positive.

We seem to have a problem differentiating employment numbers and growth rates.  Growth rates - especially year-over-year rates - are notoriously imprecise. 

Do you know what the world's fastest growing economy was last year (year-over-year)?  

Bhutan. 

The streets in Bhutan's capital are not even paved.  The biggest asset in Bhutan are mountain yaks (ok, I made that yak part up). 

Bhutan was No. 1 because it had such a small baseline. 

Would you rather have (1) a city with an enormous baseline of tech jobs and a somewhat smaller growth rate; or (2) a city with a smaller baseline of tech jobs with a slightly higher growth rate?

But let's assume - for the sake of argument - we are justified by relying on growth rates. 

Orlando is NOT one of the top cities for STEM-jobs growth, according to Forbes (probably the most authoritative source).  

Universal just announced 3,000 new jobs (a certain % of which will be high-wage). 

Where are the nearly 3,000 new high-wage jobs elsewhere in Orlando to balance that figure out?

There is no where close to that number.

Guess what...the number of low-wage jobs to high-wage jobs just grew even more severely disproportionate, thanks to Universal.

Practically overnight 

 

 

 

[aent]

1 hour ago, I am Reality said:

We seem to have a problem differentiating employment numbers and growth rates.  Growth rates - especially year-over-year rates - are notoriously imprecise. 

Do you know what the world's fastest growing economy was last year (year-over-year)?  

Bhutan. 

The streets in Bhutan's capital are not even paved.  The biggest asset in Bhutan are mountain yaks (ok, I made that yak part up). 

Bhutan was No. 1 because it had such a small baseline. 

Would you rather have (1) a city with an enormous baseline of tech jobs and a somewhat smaller growth rate; or (2) a city with a smaller baseline of tech jobs with a slightly higher growth rate?

But let's assume - for the sake of argument - we are justified by relying on growth rates. 

Orlando is NOT one of the top cities for STEM-jobs growth, according to Forbes (probably the most authoritative source).  

Universal just announced 3,000 new jobs (a certain % of which will be high-wage). 

Where are the nearly 3,000 new high-wage jobs elsewhere in Orlando to balance that figure out?

There is no where close to that number.

Guess what...the number of low-wage jobs to high-wage jobs just grew even more severely disproportionate, thanks to Universal.

Practically overnight 

 

 

 

Both the low unemployment rate in Orlando and the high growth rate of Orlando were mentioned, we aren't having any sort of problem differentiating employment numbers and growth rates. You just chose to focus on only one of them. There is no doubt a growth rate demonstrates something very different from an unemployment rate, or an average wage, or any other statistic. A growth rate is measuring improvement, but no doubt doesn't take into account the pre-existing conditions. But having a higher growth rate means you're improving faster then the others, which is an important metric.

Your example, Bhutan, sounds like it is doing much, MUCH better then it was doing before, and things are finally starting to develop in that country. Maybe it was doing poorly before, but its doing better then it was before, thats a great thing for them. If they keep this up, they have a chance to catch up to other countries.

Lets say 10% of the new jobs Universal just announced are higher wage jobs, do you think creating 300 new high wage jobs, if it is tied to 2,700 low wage jobs is a bad thing? Do you think those 2,700 people, no, the 3,000 people are better off then without Universal creating those jobs? Do you think you posting about 30 high wage jobs being created is really better news then 2,700 low wage jobs and 300 high wage jobs being created, just because its possible the former pushes the average wage slightly up, and the later pushes the average wage slightly down while also pushing the unemployment rate down?

And when the demand suddenly, practically overnight, increases for hospitality workers, without a similar increase in supply, as is happening, what do you think happens to the average wage of those hospitality workers that you are so worried about? There is no doubt Disney will have to increase the wage of workers they're worried about losing, and Universal will have to offer a little more to try to attract good quality low wage workers. Yes, they'll still be low wage jobs, but it will lead to Orlando continuing to have among the highest cost-of-living adjusted pay of all metro areas (#3 according to IAmReal), and thats a great thing for those people.

[AmIReal]

I Am Reality, if you mean me, when you say “we”, then no I don’t have a problem differentiating employment numbers from growth rates. They are two distinct metrics, both useful in analyzing and both of which I’m very familiar with.  And, no, year over year numbers are not “notoriously imprecise” at all- the number is the number. Maybe what you meant to say is they don’t tell the whole story… Ok, agreed. That is why I included a starting reference point and numerous other stats to try to tell a more complete story.

Bhutan… really. It’s an absurd analogy.  I’m sure you already knew that, as any sophomore student in a logic class would learn, so it’s not worth discussing.

No, Forbes is not “probably the most authoritative source” of reference. In fact, they are not a source of reference at all. They are a reporting entity that is referencing a study conducted by someone else and turning it into an article. If you were writing your masters thesis you would have just failed. However, the study source that they are referencing is Praxis Strategy Group and they are a well-regarded consultant group that I am familiar with and have no reason to question. My only qualm is their source data is propriety and no one else has reviewed it.

If you want to review studies I’d refer you back to the Brookings Institute study I mentioned earlier (the source data is public). In that study they note that yes, Orlando is a top 50 tech employer (based on 2015 data), which is what my previous post said. For newer data, according to ZipRecruiter, yes, Orlando had one of the top ten job growths year over year 2016-2017. Do I consider ZipRecruiter a top source of info and would I professionally reference them? No. However, stats less than 2 years old that have been audited are impossible to find and I figured a company that not only list and fills job postings but actually shows their methodology was worth mentioning, albeit with caveats.

The “authoritative” Forbes article, btw, was focused on STEM jobs- whereas I am discussing tech jobs which is a much more general term. The BLS, which you have previously referenced so I’m sure you’re very familiar with, has 2 distinct clusters- Information Technologies and STEM. STEM is the much smaller sub-category of the general “tech industry”. On the other hand, the Brookings study refers to “Advanced Technology Industries”, still a very limiting category as it only includes about 20 NAICS based around R&D. You can see why various studies develop different answers, nobody can even define the question.

And, no, Universal’s announcement does not “overnight” produce “3,000 new jobs (a certain % of which will be high-wage)…” Those jobs are projected over multiple years and, yes, over those multiple years the MSA will offset them (and more) by higher paying jobs.

All personal jabs aside, I agree that Orlando has WAY TOO MANY low paying jobs and they are focused in the broadly defined tourism industry. However, I could- and likely will- write a treatise on the economic benefits of tourism jobs…

Between 2013 and 2021 nationwide the “hospitality and tourism” industry will produce 7.5 million jobs. Since we are often called the tourism capital of the nation (Washington, DC wants a word with us) we can expect to add a lions share of those. On the other hand, nationwide job openings, during that time period, of the very broadly defined “tech” community are only about 2 million - 62 to 68% of which are projected to go to the 8 top cluster cities with some trickle effect to secondary cities. So, for the next 3 years, approximately 350,000 highly sought after jobs will go to… ?

[HankStrong]

Now THAT was an informative post.  Bravo new person!!!  BRAVO!

Although, I can't lie, part of me is really hoping this thread goes FULL-ON telanovella and we eventually find out this is actually one poster with 2 completely different personalities who are 100% unaware of the other's existence.  One who is dating a rich and powerful woman of questionable morals (yet she secretly has a heart of gold) with twin daughters who openly support the evil personality boyfriend of their mother, but have been puppeteering behind the scenes to usurp him and install their own lovers (also twins, but secretly just one guy abusing the trust of the twins by wearing and not wearing a hairpiece depending on the locale) in his place.  The other personality was raised by poor market owners who scraped by to afford to send him to marketing school in an attempt to save the family Mercado!  His breakdown in marketing school caused the psychotic fissure, but at the end of the day he's an angel to his real family.

 

Edited:

It's probably a good thing I don't write telenovellas.

Edited April 16, 2018 by HankStrong

[spenser1058]

Hank could do backstories for the Imagineers! Oh wait, Reality says they only make minimum wage - better keep your day job.

Another voice lost *sigh*

[I am Reality]

36 minutes ago, AmIReal said:

I Am Reality, if you mean me, when you say “we”, then no I don’t have a problem differentiating employment numbers from growth rates. They are two distinct metrics, both useful in analyzing and both of which I’m very familiar with.  And, no, year over year numbers are not “notoriously imprecise” at all- the number is the number. Maybe what you meant to say is they don’t tell the whole story… Ok, agreed. That is why I included a starting reference point and numerous other stats to try to tell a more complete story.

Bhutan… really. It’s an absurd analogy.  I’m sure you already knew that, as any sophomore student in a logic class would learn, so it’s not worth discussing.

No, Forbes is not “probably the most authoritative source” of reference. In fact, they are not a source of reference at all. They are a reporting entity that is referencing a study conducted by someone else and turning it into an article. If you were writing your masters thesis you would have just failed. However, the study source that they are referencing is Praxis Strategy Group and they are a well-regarded consultant group that I am familiar with and have no reason to question. My only qualm is their source data is propriety and no one else has reviewed it.

If you want to review studies I’d refer you back to the Brookings Institute study I mentioned earlier (the source data is public). In that study they note that yes, Orlando is a top 50 tech employer (based on 2015 data), which is what my previous post said. For newer data, according to ZipRecruiter, yes, Orlando had one of the top ten job growths year over year 2016-2017. Do I consider ZipRecruiter a top source of info and would I professionally reference them? No. However, stats less than 2 years old that have been audited are impossible to find and I figured a company that not only list and fills job postings but actually shows their methodology was worth mentioning, albeit with caveats.

The “authoritative” Forbes article, btw, was focused on STEM jobs- whereas I am discussing tech jobs which is a much more general term. The BLS, which you have previously referenced so I’m sure you’re very familiar with, has 2 distinct clusters- Information Technologies and STEM. STEM is the much smaller sub-category of the general “tech industry”. On the other hand, the Brookings study refers to “Advanced Technology Industries”, still a very limiting category as it only includes about 20 NAICS based around R&D. You can see why various studies develop different answers, nobody can even define the question.

And, no, Universal’s announcement does not “overnight” produce “3,000 new jobs (a certain % of which will be high-wage)…” Those jobs are projected over multiple years and, yes, over those multiple years the MSA will offset them (and more) by higher paying jobs.

All personal jabs aside, I agree that Orlando has WAY TOO MANY low paying jobs and they are focused in the broadly defined tourism industry. However, I could- and likely will- write a treatise on the economic benefits of tourism jobs…

Between 2013 and 2021 nationwide the “hospitality and tourism” industry will produce 7.5 million jobs. Since we are often called the tourism capital of the nation (Washington, DC wants a word with us) we can expect to add a lions share of those. On the other hand, nationwide job openings, during that time period, of the very broadly defined “tech” community are only about 2 million - 62 to 68% of which are projected to go to the 8 top cluster cities with some trickle effect to secondary cities. So, for the next 3 years, approximately 350,000 highly sought after jobs will go to… ?

I seem to remember someone (dare I say you) saying the Orlando market for attorneys is outperforming the national market.  The survey quoted actually said the GROWTH rate of the Orlando market for attorneys is outperforming the national market.

Big difference.

So yes, there does seem to confusion about growth rates here.

I give you a survey from an outfit you yourself admit is reputable.  And you attack it because YOU haven't seen the methodology?

And you instead chose to use a survey from ZipRecruiter? 

If Orlando adds jobs with a 90/10% ratio of low-wage jobs to high-wage jobs (or anything close to it), that is a serious, serious problem.  In fact, it is a total failure.

The city will continue to fall further behind other cities economically.  A lot of those jobs at Universal are part-time and pay low wages.  Where are the 3k high-wage jobs coming from to balance that out?  We already have low, low, low, ratio of high-wage earners to low-wave earners.  Do you honestly think the 3k new Universal jobs will improve on that ratio?  They'll only add to the permanent class of underemployed.  

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different outcome.

You can add a million Disney or Universal jobs and you will STILL have the same wage problem.  

The local job market has ALREADY shown an inability to balance low-wage jobs with high-wage.  Why reinforce it with MORE low paying jobs?

Last...while writing your treatise on the "benefits" of tourism....take a look at the 2 dozen articles I cited about how bad the wage situation is.  They're not hard to find, although everyone here would rather disregard them.

 

 

 

 

 

[prahaboheme]

37 minutes ago, HankStrong said:

Now THAT was an informative post.  Bravo new person!!!  BRAVO!

Although, I can't lie, part of me is really hoping this thread goes FULL-ON telanovella and we eventually find out this is actually one poster with 2 completely different personalities who are 100% unaware of the other's existence.  One who is dating a rich and powerful woman of questionable morals (yet she secretly has a heart of gold) with twin daughters who openly support the evil personality boyfriend of their mother, but have been puppeteering behind the scenes to usurp him and install their own lovers (also twins, but secretly just one guy abusing the trust of the twins by wearing and not wearing a hairpiece depending on the locale) in his place.  The other personality was raised by poor market owners who scraped by to afford to send him to marketing school in an attempt to save the family Mercado!  His breakdown in marketing school caused the psychotic fissure, but at the end of the day he's an angel to his real family.

 

Edited:

It's probably a good thing I don't write telenovellas.

I already surmised this is exactly what is happening here. 

Since we aren't getting a super tall high rise, we might as well have split personalities.

Long live, Cybill!