CATS Long Term Transit Plan - Silver, Red Lines

[kermit]

2 hours ago, Blue_Devil said:

Redline being included there, and phase 3 goldline are interesting. What is Phase A of Silderline? and what is blue line core capacity? Does that mean 3 car capacity? Not until 2041? 

The current batch of consultants suggested splitting Silver line construction into two phases, I assume East and West, not sure what they labeled A and B.

Red Line inclusion has nothing to do with its buildability, its just a political flag being waved.

Yes, Blue Line Core Capacity is three car platforms on the 9 stations that still lack them. 20 years for masonry work on 9 stations.... I could do it faster working alone on the weekends with my Toyota half-ton, Sakrete  and my harbor freight brick saw.

How TF does CATS plan to spend 8 years building I-77 BRT when all of the infrastructure (the toll lanes) is ALREADY COMPLETE???????????????????

These timelines are climate arson and endanger Charlotte's continued growth. Dragging feet on transit will ensure our continued  Altantafication.

Edited June 29, 2021 by kermit

[TGIBridays]

27 minutes ago, Blue_Devil said:

Redline being included there, and phase 3 goldline are interesting. What is Phase A of Silderline? and what is blue line core capacity? Does that mean 3 car capacity? Not until 2041? 

Phase A is out towards Matthews, Phase B is towards Belmont according to Joe Bruno. https://twitter.com/JoeBrunoWSOC9/status/1409907416859299843?s=20

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by TGIBridays

[Blue_Devil]

5 minutes ago, kermit said:

The current batch of consultants suggested splitting Silver line construction into two phases, I assume East and West, not sure what they labeled A and B.

Red Line inclusion has nothing to do with its buildability, its just a political bone being thrown.

Yes, Blue Line Core Capacity is three car platforms on the 9 stations that still lack them. 20 years for masonry work on 9 stations.... I could do it faster working alone on the weekends with my Toyota half-ton and my harbor freight brick saw.

How TF does CATS plan to spend 8 years building I-77 BRT when all of the infrastructure (the toll lanes) is ALREADY COMPLETE???????????????????

These timelines are climate arson and endanger Charlotte's continued growth. Dragging feet on transit will ensure our continued  Altantafication.

ITs got to be funding or lack there of... I get this is on CATS, but when do we start looking to the City Council and Mayors office as well. This is a huge ball drop. 

[Matthew.Brendan]

Been evident for a long time that civic leadership in Charlotte is woefully inexperienced and unprepared to handle the continued growth and population explosion that clearly has no signs of slowing.

It's small city leadership / mindset that is doing a real disservice to the vitality of what is, despite the hurdles, a vibrant city.

Quite frankly imho the leadership is just way in over their heads and timelines like this just illustrate it. 4+ years to rebuild Hawthorne and Sugar Creek bridges, laughable operation of the light rail trains, the absolute lack of any kind of even pretense of requiring better in new developments (brand new parking decks without requiring retail, poor construction of apartment buildings requiring large scale repairs to <10 year old buildings, being required to use lowest bidder (seriously wtf) etc etc etc...

Charlotte is succeeding in spite of inept leadership. Just imagine how great the fabric of livability could be with even halfway competent planning and execution.

[CLT>]

Time for people to keep writing (or start) council and Mayor about the lack of faith and ability in CATS leadership. They need a new public 'get stuff done' leader before they try and sell the transit plan.

[XRZ.ME]

Silver line is currently in partial engineering phase right?

 

How could Red Line and Gold Line phase 3 be done earlier than Silver Line?

[tozmervo]

7 minutes ago, XRZ.ME said:

Silver line is currently in partial engineering phase right?

 

How could Red Line and Gold Line phase 3 be done earlier than Silver Line?

Silver line will be a vastly more complicated project and far more expensive than Red or Gold lines ever thought about being.

[TGIBridays]

20 minutes ago, XRZ.ME said:

Silver line is currently in partial engineering phase right?

 

How could Red Line and Gold Line phase 3 be done earlier than Silver Line?

This is what I was thinking.  I thought the red line was basically dead since Norfolk Southern wasn't willing to let passenger trains run on their tracks. 

20 minutes ago, tozmervo said:

Silver line will be a vastly more complicated project and far more expensive than Red or Gold lines ever thought about being.

Seems like if NS is still not willing to play ball with CATS, then the Red Line would be considerably more expensive and cost comparable with the Silver Line.

[Blue_Devil]

18 minutes ago, TGIBridays said:

This is what I was thinking.  I thought the red line was basically dead since Norfolk Southern wasn't willing to let passenger trains run on their tracks. 

Seems like if NS is still not willing to play ball with CATS, then the Red Line would be considerably more expensive and cost comparable with the Silver Line.

Maybe, politically, they are trying to get that done first. 

[Hushpuppy321]

Anyone know how long it was for the initial Blue Line from conception to reality?

[CLT2014]

14 minutes ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

Anyone know how long it was for the initial Blue Line from conception to reality?

1990 initial planning funding for light rail budgeted.

1998 voters approve transit tax

1999 planning begins

2005 groundbreaking

Nov 2007 - initial service begins

[Hushpuppy321]

13 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

1990 initial planning funding for light rail budgeted.

1998 voters approve transit tax

1999 planning begins

2005 groundbreaking

Nov 2007 - initial service begins

17 years.... damn

[Spartan]

10 hours ago, Nathan2 said:

This is sad and depressing. The lack of urgency is extremely frustrating. This is infrastructure that the city badly needs now and waiting 20+ years is not going to cut it. Why do I want to live in a city that shows no ability to get anything done in order to make it a more livable place?

 

Not to be difficult, but is $10 billion not enough of an investment for you? That slide comes from a presentation about the CLT Moves / Transformational Mobility Network, which is literally about investing more money in the CLT transportation system than has ever been discussed before, and 90% of it would be for transit. I don't think more money changes how long it takes to build something.

 

[elrodvt]

 ”I don't think more money changes how long it takes to build something.”

Really??

[TCLT]

25 minutes ago, Spartan said:

I don't think more money changes how long it takes to build something.

I mean it absolutely does. But also isn't this less about the total number and more about how fast the money is coming in. It's phased over 18 years because they have to pay for all the projects using the proposed 1% transit tax. If they had $10 billion in hand now earmarked entirely towards transit they can build everything simultaneously.

[Desert Power]

12 hours ago, Nathan2 said:

This is sad and depressing. The lack of urgency is extremely frustrating. This is infrastructure that the city badly needs now and waiting 20+ years is not going to cut it. Why do I want to live in a city that shows no ability to get anything done in order to make it a more livable place?

Not to mention that CATS has routinely experienced delays relative to their timeline.  The blueline upgrades extensions are particularly bad as this is going to be out only real transit route for almost two decades. Wow.

[kermit]

11 hours ago, TCLT said:

If they had $10 billion in hand now earmarked entirely towards transit they can build everything simultaneously.

They can just bond out anticipated sales tax revenue. It ain’t rocket science, the city is growing like crazy and we have a stellar credit rating. The bonds would be tax-exempt, they would get snapped up.

Edited June 30, 2021 by kermit

[kermit]

[TCLT]

They can just bond out anticipated sales tax revenue. It ain’t rocket science, the city is growing like crazy and we have a stellar credit rating (not sure about CATS however).

In the city council presentation they mentioned the plan was to create a new entity to manage the projects and issue bonds with the pledged tax revenue as collateral or whatever. Not sure if that structure prevents a mega bond up front or if the city just doesn’t want to take on that much debt all at once.

[CLT704]

Absolutely unacceptable. What a joke!

[49er]

I place a lot of the blame with the general assembly.  25% of the blue line was paid for with state funds. Now we're asking whether they will even let us hold a sales tax referendum much less help with funding. 

[CLT2014]

2037 for launch of the Silver Line is crazy. 16 years... the world will change so much in that time frame.  Many automakers are forecasting to have entirely electric or hybrid vehicle offerings by then. To put things in perspective, 16 years ago the iPhone didn't exist, Facebook was one year old, YouTube launched, Blockbuster was still a Fortune 500 company with over $5 billion in revenue. Approximately ~100,000 Mecklenburg County residents will be dead before the line delivers. The median Charlotte resident (34 years old) will be 50 when it is done. 

I get thinking about the next generation and we absolutely should, but for some voters, these timelines are going to be a tough sell in the voting booth. These timelines start to even dip into people in their 40's being like "will I ever even use this thing before I retire?"

Edited June 30, 2021 by CLT2014

[rancenc]

A lot of dollars will be needed.......

https://www.masstransitmag.com/management/news/21228735/nc-the-price-tag-just-increased-for-charlottes-big-transportation-plan-heres-the-latest

[Spartan]

23 hours ago, TCLT said:

I mean it absolutely does. But also isn't this less about the total number and more about how fast the money is coming in. It's phased over 18 years because they have to pay for all the projects using the proposed 1% transit tax. If they had $10 billion in hand now earmarked entirely towards transit they can build everything simultaneously.

True, but a lot of what drives the timeline in public projects like this is federally mandated procedures that were put in place because we, as a society, forcibly removed African Americans from their homes to build highways. You could start more projects simultaneously, but 16 years may or may not be substantially reduced.

[Hushpuppy321]

Anyone feel confident anymore in the inevitability of the SilverLine/Blue Line Extension/GoldLine Ph.III happening?  I have a sinking feeling that this may go bust like the DOLRT did in the Triangle Area.  Just a shame for the Carolinas Metropolis...