Unified Development Ordinance

[TGIBridays]

52 minutes ago, Nathan2 said:

Its insane that we have so many restrictions on everything that's more than 1 unit. Meanwhile you can build these castles that tower over neighbors, but if these housed more than one unit it would somehow equal bad. 

EXACTLY!  I have seen several new builds just like your second photo. These restrictions do nothing to actually preserve the neighborhood character (whatever that means).  In the article Joe mentions that there's a state law that prevents the city from regulating the design (the color or outside materials), and this was their attempt at having some kind of control.  But it's definitely a miss as far as that goes.  

[Norm2]

16 minutes ago, TGIBridays said:

EXACTLY!  I have seen several new builds just like your second photo. These restrictions do nothing to actually preserve the neighborhood character (whatever that means).  In the article Joe mentions that there's a state law that prevents the city from regulating the design (the color or outside materials), and this was their attempt at having some kind of control.  But it's definitely a miss as far as that goes.  

I remember when the legislature passed the law limiting the ability of localities to specify outside building materials. It was after the Republicans took control on 2010 and went on a spree of passing laws that limits what localities have control over. I believe they also outlawed the city mandating that so many units of a multifamily building had to be affordable housing, among many other things.

[elrodvt]

Some of these rules make you wonder if money changed hands.

[Nathan2]

On 2/16/2022 at 1:39 PM, Nathan2 said:

 

 

Unfortunately the little house to the right has since been demolished and the castles twin brother is now going up. It makes me so upset when I see this, affordability just flying right out the window. Perfectly good homes destroyed for some rich persons ego. I would be completely fine with demolishing these homes if a multi-unit building was built in its place. 

[TGIBridays]

I would love to see developments like this one in Portland pop up around Charlotte.  https://www.cullygreenpdx.com/ 

Looking through the UDO, it appears it would maybe be allowed in N2 zones, except for the parking.  You'd have to reduce the houses by something like 4 units and increase the parking.  Cars really suck up space.  N1 seems overly restrictive and counterintuitive to the goal of providing more missing middle housing. 

[Hushpuppy321]

Does any other city in NC have a UDO with the same types of High Density Development that Charlotte is considering?

[kermit]

Sounds like getting the UDO into official and fully implemented status just became significantly more important with the new housing policy from the white house.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/05/16/president-biden-announces-new-actions-to-ease-the-burden-of-housing-costs/

The policy makes several changes that mean that communities that have restrictive zoning (read: zoning which makes infill and multi family construction difficult or impossible) will be ineligible for most federal infrastructure funding. I believe that the policy goes further to say that inclusive zoning is now an evaluation criteria in federal transportation grants and projects that destroy housing (or make it more difficult to build new housing) will be ineligible for funding.

Charlotte did a pretty good job linking the Blue Line to new commercial development, sounds like the next projects are going to need to be more intentional about increasing densities of residential development.

This may end hopes for the Silver Line to reach into Union County, not sure about how Belmont would do.

Edited May 16, 2022 by kermit

[Blue_Devil]

41 minutes ago, kermit said:

Sounds like getting the UDO into official and fully implemented status just became significantly more important with the new housing policy from the white house. 

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/05/16/president-biden-announces-new-actions-to-ease-the-burden-of-housing-costs/

The policy makes several changes that mean that communities that have restrictive zoning (read: zoning which makes infill and multi family construction difficult or impossible) will be ineligible for most federal infrastructure funding. I believe that the policy goes further to say that inclusive zoning is now an evaluation criteria in federal transportation grants and projects that destroy housing (or make it more difficult to build new housing) will be ineligible for funding.

Charlotte did a pretty good job linking the Blue Line to new commercial development, sounds like the next projects are going to need to be more intentional about increasing densities of residential development.

This may end hopes for the Silver Line to reach into Union County, not sure about how Belmont would do.

I mean in all honesty, just build silver line airport to uptown and be done with it. Then focus on other branches. BLE expansion etc. build a purple line from the New Union station down to park road. Focus on Uptown outward, use shared track like in San Fran, and just build as much as you can as cheap as you can.

I don’t understand the need for these 30 mile 15 year build plans…

[Madison Parkitect]

57 minutes ago, kermit said:

This may end hopes for the Silver Line to reach into Union County, not sure about how Belmont would do.

Belmont could probably highlight their main street revitalization and the mill rehab and get a good enough score.

[wilmore]

12 minutes ago, Blue_Devil said:

I mean in all honesty, just build silver line airport to uptown and be done with it. Then focus on other branches. BLE expansion etc. build a purple line from the New Union station down to park road. Focus on Uptown outward, use shared track like in San Fran, and just build as much as you can as cheap as you can.

I don’t understand the need for these 30 mile 15 year build plans…

Compared to most cities with airport transit, our airport is both super close and super accessible to uptown. It's really a 15 minute drive at most - the train needs to be really frequent to compete with that. 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, wilmore said:

Compared to most cities with airport transit, our airport is both super close and super accessible to uptown. It's really a 15 minute drive at most - the train needs to be really frequent to compete with that. 

That Wilkinson corridor and the west side in general will increase in density and that 15 will slip

[RANYC]

9 hours ago, Blue_Devil said:

I mean in all honesty, just build silver line airport to uptown and be done with it. Then focus on other branches. BLE expansion etc. build a purple line from the New Union station down to park road. Focus on Uptown outward, use shared track like in San Fran, and just build as much as you can as cheap as you can.

I don’t understand the need for these 30 mile 15 year build plans…

yes!  silver line from uptown to airport would stimulate tons of residential density in an area that's still pretty spaced out...just need the UDO to align with that densification/transit-orientation.

9 hours ago, wilmore said:

Compared to most cities with airport transit, our airport is both super close and super accessible to uptown. It's really a 15 minute drive at most - the train needs to be really frequent to compete with that. 

I think what he's referring to is that a train from uptown to the airport also allows the rapidly growing population along the blue line to potentially get to the airport just utilizing light rail the entire way.  that's potentially a meaningful movement of people without cars on a fixed line.  eventually other fixed lines could build on that, but if we have to acknowledge trade-offs given costs, I think he's right that a west side fixed line prioritization makes sense as long as we get the line conveniently close to the terminal.

Edited May 17, 2022 by RANYC

[tarhoosier]

wrong topic

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by tarhoosier

[CLT Development]

11 hours ago, Blue_Devil said:

I mean in all honesty, just build silver line airport to uptown and be done with it. Then focus on other branches. BLE expansion etc. build a purple line from the New Union station down to park road. Focus on Uptown outward, use shared track like in San Fran, and just build as much as you can as cheap as you can.

I don’t understand the need for these 30 mile 15 year build plans…

Ridership to CLT alone and future development opportunities would not be enough to get federal funding. We need to connect to Matthews to secure funding. People like to tout the airports status worldwide for plane movements but that will not necessarily translate to a people riding the silver line. 

[wilmore]

3 hours ago, RANYC said:

yes!  silver line from uptown to airport would stimulate tons of residential density in an area that's still pretty spaced out...just need the UDO to align with that densification/transit-orientation.

I think what he's referring to is that a train from uptown to the airport also allows the rapidly growing population along the blue line to potentially get to the airport just utilizing light rail the entire way.  that's potentially a meaningful movement of people without cars on a fixed line.  eventually other fixed lines could build on that, but if we have to acknowledge trade-offs given costs, I think he's right that a west side fixed line prioritization makes sense as long as we get the line conveniently close to the terminal.

I think what I'm getting at is the residential stimulus is a big part of the value here; with only the current, or a moderate level of additional development, the "get to the airport" benefit won't be even close to worthwhile. The gentrification is the point, for better or for worse. 

As someone who lives in Wilmore (hence the handle), a potential light rail airport trip for me in the future is a choice between: 
Pay for whatever Uber/Lyft costs, 15 min. 

Get dropped off or drive, parking costs + 15 min + tram each way. 

Walk to the East/West station, ride blue line to transfer, additional silver line to airport. I think in the "Charlotte does transit right" scenario, I could see this being an hour trip. No way I would ever choose this. If it's 30-40 minutes for the trip, sure, let's make the trip, but it is unlikely they will be running frequently enough to allow this to happen. I do live in an unusually convenient spot to drive to the airport, but overall, I just don't see a ton of decent-time-to-the-airport train trips to be added here. The train needs to be a good enough option that a significant number of people will choose it over other options. 

Most business travelers have way *less* appetite for waiting around than I do in this model. In the old Charlotte urban model, where everyone wants to get dumped on Tryon/Trade, an airport train right into the middle of Uptown is pretty valuable. In a hypothetical 2040, is this network even doing much? 

[davidclt]

8 hours ago, wilmore said:

Walk to the East/West station, ride blue line to transfer, additional silver line to airport. I think in the "Charlotte does transit right" scenario, I could see this being an hour trip. No way I would ever choose this. If it's 30-40 minutes for the trip, sure, let's make the trip, but it is unlikely they will be running frequently enough to allow this to happen. I do live in an unusually convenient spot to drive to the airport, but overall, I just don't see a ton of decent-time-to-the-airport train trips to be added here. The train needs to be a good enough option that a significant number of people will choose it over other options. 

The shabby frequencies on the blue line and ultimate the silver line if it's ever built are a choice. You can make all the excuses you want about cost, operator availability, carrying capacity, etc. At the end of the day, the leadership of CATS and the city, have decided that shabby is decent enough. I look at the Sprinter service. At best it's 15 minute headways. If it ran every 7, I could see doing it for a trip (blue line to the misery that is the CTC, to Route 5 (which isn't listed as Sprinter)).  The stations on Wilkinson are not maintained and the boards have never worked. The site still SUCKS. All of this is a choice because we don't care to do transit right.

[kermit]

12 hours ago, wilmore said:

Walk to the East/West station, ride blue line to transfer, additional silver line to airport. I think in the "Charlotte does transit right" scenario, I could see this being an hour trip. No way I would ever choose this. If it's 30-40 minutes for the trip, sure…

FWIW, based on the current design a Wilmore resident would probably want to walk down to the Summit station for a direct trip ( 12-15 minutes) to the (still theoretical) people mover.

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by kermit

[a2theb]

8 hours ago, wilmore said:

I think what I'm getting at is the residential stimulus is a big part of the value here; with only the current, or a moderate level of additional development, the "get to the airport" benefit won't be even close to worthwhile. The gentrification is the point, for better or for worse. 

As someone who lives in Wilmore (hence the handle), a potential light rail airport trip for me in the future is a choice between: 
Pay for whatever Uber/Lyft costs, 15 min. 

Get dropped off or drive, parking costs + 15 min + tram each way. 

Walk to the East/West station, ride blue line to transfer, additional silver line to airport. I think in the "Charlotte does transit right" scenario, I could see this being an hour trip. No way I would ever choose this. If it's 30-40 minutes for the trip, sure, let's make the trip, but it is unlikely they will be running frequently enough to allow this to happen. I do live in an unusually convenient spot to drive to the airport, but overall, I just don't see a ton of decent-time-to-the-airport train trips to be added here. The train needs to be a good enough option that a significant number of people will choose it over other options. 

Most business travelers have way *less* appetite for waiting around than I do in this model. In the old Charlotte urban model, where everyone wants to get dumped on Tryon/Trade, an airport train right into the middle of Uptown is pretty valuable. In a hypothetical 2040, is this network even doing much? 

I think the distinction to be made here is business vs. leisure. If I am Boston/Chicago/NYC with my wife for a weekend, we are probably taking the train from the airport to wherever we are going. If I am there for work, I am 100% getting an Uber.  

 

Granted, the traffic is those cities absolutely sucks but with the reduction in availability and the increase in cost of Ubers, I think you will see a heavy contingent of leisure travelers who get off a flight and see "Train to Uptown" signs take the proposed silver line. Is it enough to warrant the line only going to the airport? Absolutely not but I think the connectivity with the airport is still important. 

 

*Disclaimer* I live on the west side so I too am in the "why would I ever do anything but drive/Uber to the airport" but I think everyone is underestimating the use the line to the airport would get.

[tarhoosier]

I have been taking a taxi/rideshare to and from the airport for 20+ years. The idea of driving, parking in remote, regardless of time away, and waiting for shuttle to and from terminal, an extra bag loading and unloading, compared to taxi to the departure doors, plus assistance with bags is of little comparison. Then on return flight I walk out the doors and enter a taxi in three minutes or less and I am on my way home. I am a cab fare of 25-30$ from CLT but if it were double I would still choose this method. No train/transfer/wait time/bag drag could ever top this. I estimate the price for my convenience as worth the difference in cost. Personal calculation. 

[kermit]

^ I feel ridiculous saying this but…. I am not sure that transportation is the biggest benefit of airport rail transit. It has increasingly become an important checkbox item for firms and skilled migrants when searching for destinations. The availability of the transit helped to recruit firms like Mercedes to Atlanta. I doubt Mercedes employees use MARTA much but I think they are very happy to have the option and it makes them feel like the future-proofed their hq location choice a bit. I do think factors like the option of airport transit will be an increasingly important factor in a world of remote work, increased auto congestion and growing environmental awareness.

Charlotte is also a non-standard case for airport transit, I think we have some compelling justifications for airport rail that many other places lack: A) Rail transit to the West side of town is badly needed by existing residents; A2) The Silver Line will provide access to quite a few current and future jobs on the west side; B) there are destinations to be served beyond the airport; C) The west side offers a huge amount of available space for affordable housing construction which would also need transit; D) The majority of business travelers will be heading to uptown — where the transit is gonna go; E) Rail transit from the airport to uptown is ideal for the type of big-event tourism (ACC Championship games etc.) that Charlotte is starting to specialize in.

No airport transit is going to serve everyone well,  but I think the current Silver plan makes sense for Charlotte.

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by kermit

[wilmore]

3 hours ago, kermit said:

FWIW, based on the current design a Wilmore resident would probably wan to walk down to the Summit station for a direct trip ( 12-15 minutes) to the (still theoretical) people mover.

 

 

Hmm maybe with that Summit station they can put in a way to cross 77 there on foot? 

[CLTdev18]

3 hours ago, tarhoosier said:

I have been taking a taxi/rideshare to and from the airport for 20+ years. The idea of driving, parking in remote, regardless of time away, and waiting for shuttle to and from terminal, an extra bag loading and unloading, compared to taxi to the departure doors, plus assistance with bags is of little comparison. Then on return flight I walk out the doors and enter a taxi in three minutes or less and I am on my way home. I am a cab fare of 25-30$ from CLT but if it were double I would still choose this method. No train/transfer/wait time/bag drag could ever top this. I estimate the price for my convenience as worth the difference in cost. Personal calculation. 

If I can pre-pay for parking in the hourly lot for about the same price as a taxi/rideshare, then that is the route I typically take. It sounds like we are about the same distance from the airport (cab fare-wise), but I really enjoy having the ability to leave my house to go to the airport exactly when I want to. Sometimes an Uber is 3 minutes from my house, sometimes it is 25 minutes from my house. That could be the difference between making the flight and missing it (maybe I should give myself some more time, but I've never missed a flight from my own mistake...yet)

Usually a 4 day trip is about the breakeven point between parking in the hourly lot and taking an Uber, cost wise. It's really nice to just park, take the elevator down and you're in the terminal (after playing a small game of Frogger). When the construction is complete, this will be even easier. And when I return, I don't have to wait the ~10 minutes for the Uber to arrive, or hope that taxis are available; just hop in the car and go.

[davidclt]

On 10/19/2021 at 8:59 PM, mazman34340 said:

The planners could never get the right parking minimums usually being completely over-kill.

New Owner Shares Vision for Long-Vacant Central Avenue Property (qcnerve.com)

Parking minimums remain the bane of walkable, transit friendly, urban development. Meh.

[davidclt]

In light of our discussions around the UDO, a fascinating look at Toronto's "missing middle": https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/the-missing-middle/

[kermit]

More bullcrap backpeddaling by the city on the UDO:

• The relatively high vehicular parking standards are based on "current demand". Well covid cratered parking demand in much of town, the UDO clearly has not considered that change
• WTF, bike parking counts against parking maximums?
• As a regular bike rider I can say that in my experience bike parking is certainly NOT meeting current demand.

Reducing auto dependence is going to take more than wishing it naturally disapears, the UDO does no where near enough to create a sustainable city. This is bullcrap.

 

 

Edited May 22, 2022 by kermit