Can Parramore become Orlando's version of Harlem

[AmIReal]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

Although the Carver stopped showing films regularly in the ‘60’s, it was still used for other purposes well beyond that. 

In any event, it’s more about will. We’ve seen structures in Tampa, Jax and Miami Beach sit empty for decades only to be restored later because the powers that be wanted to save them. Then there are those that prefer to run the backhoe and erase history.

I've been here since early 80s and only remember it as a parts warehouse. Regardless, I agree it may have been a nice building to reclaim although my memory of it is it was in terrible shape. I think it is worth thinking would it be worth having a dilapidated, unused and unwanted building or would the community rather have the Exploria Stadium. I understand everyone would have a different perspective on that question, but I feel the current use is better.

Maybe if the citizens of Orlando and the City had given a sh*t during the 40's through the 90s we would have been looking at a different outcome. Unfortunately, they did not so we are not.

[jack]

18 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

A little more of our past lost in the Mayor Buddy era. The Carver Theatre, the last of the movie houses built (in 1949) during the segregation era. It was demolished in 2005 and also had live performances 

http://cinematreasures.org/theaters/14555
 

From Cinema Treasures

Also, the older Lincoln Theatre from 1937:

http://cinematreasures.org/theaters/14556

It was demolished for this. 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi--MbS4YnrAhVOZN8KHXq2DHgQFjATegQICRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wftv.com%2Fnews%2Flocal%2F9-investigates-what-happened-money-carver-theatre-%2F107071024%2F&usg=AOvVaw3OU7WtPpb7Qq9yNklSYMp2

 

 

[AmIReal]

1 hour ago, jack said:

It was demolished for this. 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi--MbS4YnrAhVOZN8KHXq2DHgQFjATegQICRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wftv.com%2Fnews%2Flocal%2F9-investigates-what-happened-money-carver-theatre-%2F107071024%2F&usg=AOvVaw3OU7WtPpb7Qq9yNklSYMp2

 

 

There appears to have been some discussion here on the board back in '08

 

[spenser1058]

City breaks ground on Grand Avenue:

https://bungalower.com/2020/08/11/city-of-orlando-broke-ground-on-grand-avenue-neighborhood-center-and-park/

From Bungalower 

Good to see this moving forward.

[Jerry95]

On 8/12/2020 at 7:19 AM, spenser1058 said:

City breaks ground on Grand Avenue:

https://bungalower.com/2020/08/11/city-of-orlando-broke-ground-on-grand-avenue-neighborhood-center-and-park/

From Bungalower 

Good to see this moving forward.

Besides the Pottery Studio what else is at the Downtown Rec Center? With this and the Tennis Centre leaving is it inevitable that the Downtown Center will be cleared for future UCF expansion?

[spenser1058]

11 minutes ago, Jerry95 said:

Besides the Pottery Studio what else is at the Downtown Rec Center? With this and the Tennis Centre leaving is it inevitable that the Downtown Center will be cleared for future UCF expansion?

It probably doesn’t mean much to Backhoe Buddy, but the City has designated the Davis Armory a Historic Landmark.

https://www.orlando.gov/Our-Government/History/Find-Historic-Landmarks/Davis-Armory/Davis-Armory

[spenser1058]

Something even more frightening is that Bob Carr is not protected. Developers have “agreed it’s vital to the city’s history”, but without force of law (the Jaymont Block was protected by a proclamation but Backhoe Buddy chose to level it anyway) it could disappear one night.

It’s like Tinker Field is even on the National list but Buddy still took out part of the field and demolished the stands which were the part most folks remembered. To preserve our past there has to be the will to do so and this administration has shown that to be notably lacking more than once.

 

[orlandoguy]

Something even more frightening is that Bob Carr is not protected. Developers have “agreed it’s vital to the city’s history”, but without force of law (the Jaymont Block was protected by a proclamation but Backhoe Buddy chose to level it anyway) it could disappear one night.
It’s like Tinker Field is even on the National list but Buddy still took out part of the field and demolished the stands which were the part most folks remembered. To preserve our past there has to be the will to do so and this administration has shown that to be notably lacking more than once.
 

I remember reading that Bob Carr has been renovated to within an inch of its life over the years, so much so that it would be impossible to restore it to its original state.

I don’t think much of anyone would describe BC as an attractive building in its current state.

The original theater may be considered important, historic, or even a designated landmark. But what do you do when you’re stuck with an unattractive building that can’t be restored, but also isn’t functional as a great theater space or a good example of architecture either? If it were an architectural gem or a great theater, I’d be the first one on the picket line to save it. But this particular facility has always left me confused since it wasn’t respected during its useful lifetime.

[spenser1058]

25 minutes ago, orlandoguy said:

I remember reading that Bob Carr has been renovated to within an inch of its life over the years, so much so that it would be impossible to restore it to its original state.

I don’t think much of anyone would describe BC as an attractive building in its current state.

The original theater may be considered important, historic, or even a designated landmark. But what do you do when you’re stuck with an unattractive building that can’t be restored, but also isn’t functional as a great theater space or a good example of architecture either? If it were an architectural gem or a great theater, I’d be the first one on the picket line to save it. But this particular facility has always left me confused since it wasn’t respected during its useful lifetime.

The 1970’s facade wraps around the 1920’s original (they also worked on the stage area to make it more appropriate for modern stage productions).

If you removed the 1970’s glass facade in the front, it looks very like the original.

The audience area was totally redone and thank God. When I first went there in elementary school to see the symphony  and later for graduations, it wasn’t even air-conditioned. The stairs were horrible.

Nevertheless, without the ‘70’s facade which really was wrapped around (when you look through the glass from the front, you can see the original brick and the marquee, “MVNICIPAL AVDITORIVM”.

It’s well worth saving. It’s had performers from the symphony to Elvis over the years. It’s definitely a part of our history.

It’s another case where once the cladding is removed the original shines through.

Of course, in just a few years even the redo will be 50 years old. I may not think much of the ‘70’s but it’s our history too. After all, arguably the most important thing to happen here, the opening of WDW (and Sea World, not to mention Fashion Square and the major Citrus Bowl redo), all happened in the ‘70’s.

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by spenser1058

[JFW657]

6 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Something even more frightening is that Bob Carr is not protected. Developers have “agreed it’s vital to the city’s history”, but without force of law (the Jaymont Block was protected by a proclamation but Backhoe Buddy chose to level it anyway) it could disappear one night.

It’s like Tinker Field is even on the National list but Buddy still took out part of the field and demolished the stands which were the part most folks remembered. To preserve our past there has to be the will to do so and this administration has shown that to be notably lacking more than once.

[spenser1058]

The thing about restoring and preserving important buildings is that they’re never perfect. If that were the standard, we’ll need to start by tearing down the White House.

Remember, a lot had to be replaced when the British took a torch to it during the War of 1812.

Then, its interior was pretty much gutted during the Truman administration (the Trumans had to move out for a couple of years). Basically, they dropped a new building into the facade.

Florida’s Capitol is another good example. The original plan was to level the old building when they built “The Phallus” in the ‘70’s.  The new building really didn’t look like a Capitol, though, so on to Plan B.

The problem was the existing Capitol was... a mess. It had been added on to over the years haphazardly.

So.... they tore down the mish-mash of additions and took it back to what it looked like in 1904.

The result is a stunning juxtaposition (especially viewed coming up the hill on Apalachee Parkway) of the old and what passed for new in the late ‘70’s. The old building humanizes the newer, “Terminator” version that belongs in Orlando anyway (but that’s another story).

So you see, a bit of restoration on the Bob Carr exterior will go a long way to preserving an important part of our past.

Edited August 18, 2020 by spenser1058

[jack]

21 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Something even more frightening is that Bob Carr is not protected. Developers have “agreed it’s vital to the city’s history”, but without force of law (the Jaymont Block was protected by a proclamation but Backhoe Buddy chose to level it anyway) it could disappear one night.

It’s like Tinker Field is even on the National list but Buddy still took out part of the field and demolished the stands which were the part most folks remembered. To preserve our past there has to be the will to do so and this administration has shown that to be notably lacking more than once.

 

Isn't it (Bob Carr) owned but the City of Orlando? If so, (I believe it is) it will more likely than not be protected. The bigger question is what to do with it. 

Edited August 18, 2020 by jack

[spenser1058]

37 minutes ago, jack said:

Isn't it (Bob Carr) owned but the City of Orlando? If so, (I believe it is) it will more likely than not be protected. The bigger question I what to do with it. 

The City owns it. If nothing else, it seems like they could work out a deal with UCF or Valencia to use it as a lecture hall.

Bob Carr was often booked (it had a remarkably high occupancy rate compared to other similar Florida venues) and I wonder if there may not be enough business to go around for it even after the Phil moves over to DPCPA.

While Curtis Hixon Hall in Tampa was deemed obsolete once the Straz Center opened, Nashville’s TPAC still seems to be going strong even after that city’s symphony left for its own hall. Not to mention, the restored Ryman Auditorium which the Grand Ole Opry only uses part of the year. So, who knows.

Edited August 18, 2020 by spenser1058

[jack]

3 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

The City owns it. If nothing else, it seems like they could work out a deal with UCF or Valencia to use it as a lecture hall.

Bob Carr was often booked (it had a remarkably high occupancy rate compared to other similar Florida venues) and I wonder if there may not be enough business to go around for it even after the Phil moves over to DPCPA.

While Curtis Hixon Hall in Tampa was deemed obsolete once the Straz Center opened, Nashville’s TPAC still seems to be going strong even after that city’s symphony left for its own hall. Not to mention, the restored Ryman Auditorium which the Grand Ole Opry only uses part of the year. So, who knows.

In other words, it may be demolition by neglect. If it stays empty too long, it will deteriorate if the City thinks its wasting its money. 

[spenser1058]

12 minutes ago, jack said:

In other words, it may be demolition by neglect. If it stays empty too long, it will deteriorate if the City thinks its wasting its money. 

Most governments would work to avoid that but it’s been a favored strategy of this administration so it could happen. It really is up to us to find a candidate that believes our historic buildings are an asset (like Savannah, Miami Beach or St. Pete) rather than a liability (like Jacksonville or Daytona) by 2023. With any luck, Bob Carr can hang in there for a couple of years.

Edited August 18, 2020 by spenser1058

[Mark Baratelli]

On April 24, 2017, City Council approved Ordinance No. 2017-6 designating Bob Carr Theatre as an Orlando Historic Landmark. However, the facade and the two side walls are all that remain from the original building. 

[spenser1058]

23 minutes ago, Mark Baratelli said:

On April 24, 2017, City Council approved Ordinance No. 2017-6 designating Bob Carr Theatre as an Orlando Historic Landmark. However, the facade and the two side walls are all that remain from the original building. 

As the White House demonstrates, sometimes the facade is enough.

Question: the ‘70’s wraparound is still there but you can see the 1926 front behind the glass. Is that not real? I’ve never had any of the preservationist folks tell me it’s not. The description suggests the brick is intact.

https://www.orlando.gov/Our-Government/History/Find-Historic-Landmarks/Orlando-Municipal-Theatre/Orlando-Municipal-Theatre

Edited August 19, 2020 by spenser1058

[cwetteland]

The 1926 front is still there.  In elementary school in the '60s we when there on field trips to hear the orchestra and I've seen it many times behind the glass.

[spenser1058]

1 minute ago, cwetteland said:

The 1926 front is still there.  In elementary school in the '60s we when there on field trips to hear the orchestra and I've seen it many times behind the glass.

Thank you. I didn’t think I was imagining it but I haven’t been to an Orlando Phil concert this year so I thought maybe I was losing it.

[Uncommon]

https://bungalower.com/2020/08/30/new-downtown-climbing-gym-opening-in-september/
 

According to Bungalower, the gym with the rock climbing wall is set to open sometime in early September.

[spenser1058]

The Jaxson takes a tour of Parramore:

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/sights-and-scenes-orlandos-parramore/

 

 

[nite owℓ]

7 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

The Jaxson takes a tour of Parramore:

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/sights-and-scenes-orlandos-parramore/

 

 

I love their tours to Orlando (I remember reading their original Orlando tour years ago) - it's like viewing the city from a fresh pair of eyes and see points of interest from their perspective. I remember reading the comments from past editions if they haven't been deleted after all this time. There was a hint of jealousy regarding all the things happening in Orlando (which wasn't much to speak of at the time when compared to other cities). It's all relative I guess... the grass always looks greener from across the street.

[spenser1058]

9 minutes ago, nite owℓ said:

I love their tours to Orlando (I remember reading their original Orlando tour years ago) - it's like viewing the city from a fresh pair of eyes and see points of interest from their perspective. I remember reading the comments from past editions if they haven't been deleted after all this time. There was a hint of jealousy regarding all the things happening in Orlando (which wasn't much to speak of at the time when compared to other cities). It's all relative I guess... the grass always looks greener from across the street.

That’s because, until the last decade or so, Orlando had been leading the way. Now, while the Dyer administration is taking an extended nap, most of the cities in Florida that were eating our dust are now passing us by. That’s why we need term limits. As even Mayor Bill, who led the way on kick-starting Orlando back in 1980 has said, ten years is enough. That’s true of mayors and commissioners btw (Patty has been around even longer than Buddy). But since you like nothing happening, you may enjoy it. In two weeks, I’m out of here.

Edited February 1, 2021 by spenser1058

[Uncommon]

49 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

That’s because, until the last decade or so, Orlando had been leading the way. Now, while the Dyer administration is taking an extended nap, most of the cities in Florida that were eating our dust are now passing us by. That’s why we need term limits. As even Mayor Bill, who led the way on kick-starting Orlando back in 1980 has said, ten years is enough. That’s true of mayors and commissioners btw (Patty has been around even longer than Buddy). But since you like nothing happening, you may enjoy it. In two weeks, I’m out of here.

Not Jacksonville. Sorry, but it’s true. Jax might be beginning to be forward-thinking, but realistically, DT is still DECADES behind Tampa, Orlando, Miami, and St. Pete (reverse order of best current large downtowns). I’d wager that only some of us (age 40 and younger club) will be alive to see DT Jax reclaim its former glory and measure up to any of these other cities.

[spenser1058]

Orlando to supersede 1990’s ordinance regarding social service agencies in Parramore which would allow modernization and limited expansion of existing facilities:

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/orange-county/os-ne-orlando-homeless-agency-policy-20220620-j5o2uu6irfg4jlkz74nbwpx2tq-story.html

From The Sentinel 

The original ordinance had been enacted to allow more diversified uses and to limit saturation with such agencies within Parramore but had caused difficulties for existing organizations needing to update decades old facilities.

Edited June 21, 2022 by spenser1058