GVSU Downtown Development

[mpchicago]

On 2/27/2021 at 9:55 PM, joeDowntown said:

Mt. Vernon near GVSU is being turned into a pedestrian mall. Starts this Spring. 

https://www.gvsu.edu/gvnext/2021/gvsu-to-develop-pedestrian-mall-on-pew-grand-rapids-campus.htm

 

 

So the billboard.  Is that a long term lease in place that can't be broken?  

Glad this project is moving forward.   How does the Rapid station under 131 look, don't think I've seen the finished product.

[joeDowntown]

4 minutes ago, mpchicago said:

So the billboard.  Is that a long term lease in place that can't be broken?  

Glad this project is moving forward.   How does the Rapid station under 131 look, don't think I've seen the finished product.

Personally, I think the stations under the bridge look so-so. They added a lot of weird flourishes that I think won't age well. I think they'll be well used, and 131 provides a nice cover from the elements, but I feel like they missed the mark on the boulevard/fencing, etc. 

Joe

[Khorasaurus1]

3 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

Personally, I think the stations under the bridge look so-so. They added a lot of weird flourishes that I think won't age well. I think they'll be well used, and 131 provides a nice cover from the elements, but I feel like they missed the mark on the boulevard/fencing, etc. 

Joe

Also, there's almost no signage on the westbound side...not even "Pew Station." Maybe it's just not in yet?

[GRDadof3]

If anyone happens to be scootering around downtown, the plaza is nearly complete where GV closed off Mount Vernon. I was driving by and couldn't take a snapshot.  Looks nice. 

[HavingAhoot]

https://lanthorn.com/86792/sports/moving-on-up-gv-athletics-disputes-football-recruits-claims-of-a-move-to-di/ 

This was news to me! Anyone think if they move to D1 they will expand the current one in Allendale, build a new one or even move the stadium to a downtown location?

[GR8scott]

It would not be necessary to build a new or expanded stadium in order to move up to FCS in fact the current stadium is already larger than many in FCS, however a larger crowd may demand that later on. All the directional MI schools which are FBC/ another level up from FCS and 2 levels up from D2, have stadiums over 30k capacity but rarely fill them and FCS would be a much better move for GVSU than FBS/MAC level). The small town thinking GVSU folks keep saying cost is a major roadblock to moving to FCS so this would only be more a reason for them to stay in their safe space. I still fail to see how it would be cost prohibited and not have a higher upside. Other than being required to offer more scholarships (whats 50 more schollys in a school of 20000?), the move is more like changing conferences, keeping the same facilities but playing against better opponents and theoretically recruiting better talent. Yes there would be arguably more travel costs, but with that comes much larger opponent football payouts as well as more recognition outside of MI that could also equate to more merchandise, ticket sales and athletic boosters. I could see basketball playing occasional games or hosting tournaments downtown at the VAA but football would probably stay in Allendale for foreseeable future. 

[Jonesey]

A plan from GVSU's strategic plan.  Some of the main goals are to eliminate surface lots and add more housing (200 units).  I wonder why they never seem to focus on housing DT?  I feel like it would be full.

Also interesting to note they included the pedestrian bridge and an extension and an extension of Seward to Wealthy.  Both would be fantastic, but the extension of Seward would require Padnos to finally leave (if that will ever happen). I would think GV would be the first to purchase it if they did, although the clean up costs would probably be quite a bit.

[joeDowntown]

The part that intrigued me were the areas marked “Bridge South Development”.  Lott3Metz was hired to do a feasibility study a few years ago, but nothing was ever reported on the findings. Inquiring minds want to know.
 

Joe

[cstonesparty]

I read the master plan as well.  Went to the county parcel viewer out of curiousity and was kind of stunned to see that GVSU has bought up all the houses between Trowbridge / Hastings to expand their Belknap part of Health Campus.  (I know, probably a cross post, but a continuation of the topic, right?)

gvsu_master_plan_update_2022__final_document_web.pdf

Edited March 2, 2023 by cstonesparty

[cstonesparty]

On 3/1/2023 at 4:39 PM, Jonesey said:

A plan from GVSU's strategic plan.  Some of the main goals are to eliminate surface lots and add more housing (200 units).  I wonder why they never seem to focus on housing DT?  I feel like it would be full.

Also interesting to note they included the pedestrian bridge and an extension and an extension of Seward to Wealthy.  Both would be fantastic, but the extension of Seward would require Padnos to finally leave (if that will ever happen). I would think GV would be the first to purchase it if they did, although the clean up costs would probably be quite a bit.

The 'Opportunity Sites' noted in this page are pretty interesting too... 

 

[Prankster]

I just can’t get excited about anything gvsu builds, because they all have the “building in a park” design that would be better built out by M6. 
The exception is what they have on Michigan St. 

[joeDowntown]

49 minutes ago, Prankster said:

I just can’t get excited about anything gvsu builds, because they all have the “building in a park” design that would be better built out by M6. 
The exception is what they have on Michigan St. 

interesting. I think GVSU builds really nice looking building EXCEPT that new building on Michigan Street. [Shrug]

[Prankster]

18 minutes ago, joeDowntown said:

interesting. I think GVSU builds really nice looking building EXCEPT that new building on Michigan Street. [Shrug]

My point is, they fit into the urban as much as a gas station. My bias has nothing to do with the aesthetics.
They don’t go up to the sidewalk, they are surrounded by grass on all sides, they have blank walls facing the streets. Bad urban design. 

[demhem]

14 hours ago, Prankster said:

My point is, they fit into the urban as much as a gas station. My bias has nothing to do with the aesthetics.
They don’t go up to the sidewalk, they are surrounded by grass on all sides, they have blank walls facing the streets. Bad urban design. 

But how is this different from any other college campus located in an urban environment in Michigan? Go to UM Ann Arbor, Wayne State, MSU, etc. and you see the same thing. College campuses have traditionally had open space between buildings in a park-like setting (the word campus is derived from a Latin word for "field" after all). 

Edited March 3, 2023 by demhem
more context

[GR_Urbanist]

17 hours ago, Prankster said:

I just can’t get excited about anything gvsu builds, because they all have the “building in a park” design that would be better built out by M6. 
The exception is what they have on Michigan St. 

Same here. I'm trying to see anything that really "wows" me, but it's all somewhat unambitious. Just normal "expansion" to add a few more student units here and parking structures there, with none of this really seamlessly blending into the west side, which is admittedly hard because they are surrounded by entrenched industrial and post-industrial sites or usage to the west and SW.

But GVSU just isnt known for doing a good job at this at all. The buildings dont interact with the street very well in DT GR. The grass space around the library and clock tower DT is just bizarre and serves no purpose other than to frame those two structures so they can stand out more? The addition to the medical school is just cold and hideous, making that stretch of Michigan even less pleasant. The building along the Grand River is just kind of....there. The back end of Devos faces a parking lot and a BK.

Lots of times they just seem to be into making monuments to the people that donated the cash for the buildings than actually making stuff that remotely feels cohesive, or honestly feels approachable. They so far haven't added much to the west side neighborhood beyond other than a parking ramp that you cant even walk straight through to get to Seward, a fenced off parking lot, and an engineering (?) school building that is little changed after GVSU took it over.

Edited March 3, 2023 by GR_Urbanist

[Khorasaurus1]

2 hours ago, demhem said:

But how is this different from any other college campus located in an urban environment in Michigan? Go to UM Ann Arbor, Wayne State, MSU, etc. and you see the same thing. College campuses have traditionally had open space between buildings in a park-like setting (the word campus is derived from a Latin word for "field" after all). 

Yeah I think the criticisms that GVSU's architecture and urban design are uninspired are correct, but I can't get upset at the fact that they are creating a park-like campus. That's how universities in urban settings are, more often that not - not just in Michigan. Campuses like Harvard, Columbia, Penn, Georgetown - they're all in the middle of dense urban areas, but they also have grassy quads and quiet spaces away from urban bustle.

That's not a problem, so long as those spaces are well connected to their surroundings. That's where GVSU falls short, though this plan shows progress in replacing parking lots with parks/quads and putting active uses (like the student center) right on Fulton. 

[arcturus]

Perhaps the days of rubber stamping a new, costly university building is taking a back seat to budget accountability reflecting today's realities  This includes tougher justification for tuition costs, competition from online alternatives, and static if not declining enrollment seen throughout the state and country.

The fact that GVSU is expanding its footprint while other universities are seeing empty or under utilized buildings is a win despite the architecture critics. 

[GR8scott]

There seems to be a lot of similar master plan, community input focus lately with this, the city, the rive projects, GRR ect. At least there is mention of "stronger riverfront presence" for downtown campus. Not sure what that means exactly but hopefully do something with the surface parking lot along the riverfront and there looks like a bridge, would be cool to see Jackson Island utilized as a park. Also much needed "stronger riverfront presence" at the Allendale campus!

[cstonesparty]

47 minutes ago, GR8scott said:

Also much needed "stronger riverfront presence" at the Allendale campus!

Noooo.  Just leave the ravines and woods alone.

[Jonesey]

23 hours ago, cstonesparty said:

I read the master plan as well.  Went to the county parcel viewer out of curiousity and was kind of stunned to see that GVSU has bought up all the houses between Trowbridge / Hastings to expand their Belknap part of Health Campus.  (I know, probably a cross post, but a continuation of the topic, right?)

gvsu_master_plan_update_2022__final_document_web.pdf

They've owned those for awhile, I think ever since they started building over there.  They released a master plan awhile ago, but eventually they will build out the area.  For now they're just renting out the houses

 

[Prankster]

On 3/3/2023 at 8:35 AM, demhem said:

But how is this different from any other college campus located in an urban environment in Michigan? Go to UM Ann Arbor, Wayne State, MSU, etc. and you see the same thing. College campuses have traditionally had open space between buildings in a park-like setting (the word campus is derived from a Latin word for "field" after all). 

Comparing those universities to gvsu is like comparing walnuts to watermelons, the scale alone is not comparable. 
and if you go to midtown Detroit (WSU) or downtown Ann Arbor (UofM), they fit into the urban fabric better than gvsu. 

[joeDowntown]

2 hours ago, Prankster said:

Comparing those universities to gvsu is like comparing walnuts to watermelons, the scale alone is not comparable. 
and if you go to midtown Detroit (WSU) or downtown Ann Arbor (UofM), they fit into the urban fabric better than gvsu. 

Partly because the city grew up around the university (Ann arbor). I think y’all are being quite critical of GVSU. Don’t know if you were around before GVSU built the campus west of the expressway, but there wasn’t much fabric to build around… I personally think the green space is nice. They can definitely work on infill and making the campus more cohesive, but the idea that GVSU has somehow failed (or failed “us”) seems somewhat absurd. 

Joe

[gvsusean]

12 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

Partly because the city grew up around the university (Ann arbor). I think y’all are being quite critical of GVSU. Don’t know if you were around before GVSU built the campus west of the expressway, but there wasn’t much fabric to build around… I personally think the green space is nice. They can definitely work on infill and making the campus more cohesive, but the idea that GVSU has somehow failed (or failed “us”) seems somewhat absurd. 

Joe

Exactly. Before the campus there was a crappy gas station, parking lots, abandoned houses, a suburban style big boy/burger king. 
 

GVSU made the area so much better and managed the splitting of the campus by the expressway well. 

[joeDowntown]

There's a couple of interesting articles in Crain's Grand Rapids (formerly MIBiz and GR Business Journal) about GVSU's plans for the downtown campus:

- $140M repurposing of the Eberhard Center into "Blue Dot Lab":

"The university plans to demolish a portion of the academic building, which opened in 1988, and construct a new addition in its place, increasing the building’s square footage to 175,000 square feet. Construction could take three years, according to GVSU’s most recent capital outlay plan. " - Link

Looking at the rendering, I'm a little confused where / what this looks like on the plat of land. 

• Double student housing on the downtown campus (from 400 to 800) in 2 new buildings
• New student center and dining building - four or five stories tall near U.S.-131, Fulton Street and the riverwalk.
• Turn the Mount Vernon parking lot (in from the the William Seidman Center) into green space 
• Start to convert other lots into ramps or buildings (future)

 

[GR_Urbanist]

I'm glad I'm not the only one going "Huh? How do they plan on this?".

There is only two aspects of that site. The original mid-rise, and the addition that they just built!

Maybe they are talking about building it on the small parking lot, and part of the "plaza"?