>> Providence Downtown Area

[Jerry2]

I hate to say it, but almost every time I go by Design Within Reach, the shoe store and the furniture place next door on Westminster they're totally empty. Tazza and Symposium seem to do better.

This is just my observation and perhaps, hopefully, they're all doing well.

It's funny though. I would have thought that the ideal kinds of stores for that location, which desperately needs traffic, would be ones that people can return to over and over again and linger. Tazza and Symposium fit the bill in this regard as would an assortment of restaurants or jazz clubs.

Sorry to be a pessimist, but I give these places 6 months tops, and they will all go under. ( Butterfield's, Fountain St. store, American Apparel, etc.) An upscale market doesn't exist in Providence and never will. The PP mall is OUR retail spot. Downcity should stick to the residential and arts & entertainment district it was redesigned as..there is a great need in the area!! Providence has always fulfilled that need. I don't have the link, but the Phoenix is RIGHT!!

P.S. American Apparel SUCKS!! Who in their right mind would waste $$ on their non-fashionable T-shirts when one could buy the same @ Wal-Mart no less for 75% cheaper? Duh!

[Cotuit]

Would a large Barnes & Noble make sense Downcity? In Manhattan (I'm thinking of the Union Square and Astor Place locations), they generate a lot of foot traffic, lingering, etc. Interestingly these locations are choose to a bunch of schools (NYU, Cooper Union, the New School, etc.) much like Downcity is.

EDIT

Oh, I see now that B&N operates a couple of bookstores for JWU. I wonder if JWU would pressure them from opening their own nearby store. Could always have another big Borders (now, I'm thinking of the one on Church St. in Burlington...)

My boyfriend would KILL for a B&N Downcity. There was hope/speculation on the forum earlier that the retail spots in the Westin would be a good place for a B&N. There's also a possibility that Brown may turn the operation of it's bookstore on Thayer Street over to B&N. Of course this wouldn't help Downcity.

I don't know if any J&W bookstores are actually B&Ns (the one in Providence isn't). B&N is the online portal for a number of college bookstores, including J&W, but doesn't have brick and mortar shops for a lot of them. The BU bookstore in Kenmore Square is a B&N though.

[Cotuit]

Sorry to be a pessimist, but I give these places 6 months tops, and they will all go under. ( Butterfield's, Fountain St. store, American Apparel, etc.) An upscale market doesn't exist in Providence and never will. The PP mall is OUR retail spot. Downcity should stick to the residential and arts & entertainment district it was redesigned as..there is a great need in the area!! Providence has always fulfilled that need. I don't have the link, but the Phoenix is RIGHT!!

P.S. American Apparel SUCKS!! Who in their right mind would waste $$ on their non-fashionable T-shirts when one could buy the same @ Wal-Mart no less for 75% cheaper? Duh!

I think we'll see a lot of turnover before things settle down. The one in the Cosmopolitan Building will probably be especially problematic, they have a long time to wait before the Fogarty Building is renovated, and the only other thing happening down there is the Sportsman's Inn. What little foot traffic there is in that area tends to use Sabin instead of Fountain and it will likely stay that way until LaSalle Square is redone, and that's a ways off too. It's too hard to get from Broadway/Atwells to Fountain because LaSalle Square is such a deathtrap.

I'm not understanding American Apparel either, I walked in there and thought, 'that's it?' But I spent money really poorly when I was in my 20s, maybe the kids today do too.

I have more confidence that the Downcity (especially Westminster) retail district will work, it's just going to be very very hard for the current batch of pioneers, OneTen and the lot are still a long ways off. I hope Biggles did good Christmas business.

[brick]

P.S. American Apparel SUCKS!! Who in their right mind would waste $$ on their non-fashionable T-shirts when one could buy the same @ Wal-Mart no less for 75% cheaper? Duh!

Well, one reason might be that while being a capitalist, you do have a mind of socio-economic issues, and therefore know that Wal-Mart's t-shirts are made by 10-14 year olds in sweat shops in the Far East. I'm not saying whether this is right or wrong, but I am saying that it's a pretty strong marketing campaign especially when you consider that most college students tend to liberal views.

And enough people swing that way, and catch on with trends, that American Apparel is not only the fastest growing clothing manufacturer in the US, but already the largest t-shirt manufacturer. They are also one of the most profitable. And, in fact, that AA decided to put a store in Providence, even if you think it sucks, should be met with hope and anticipation. These places don't grow by throwing up brick and mortar everywhere and hoping people come. They have good knowledge of the markets they are getting into. I just hope they are right, in this case.

As for the district as a whole, it probably would have been better to start with necessities than luxury items. Of course, for high volume low margin products to work, you need clientele. Like many other issues facing Providence, it is hard to know which one should come first and in the end which one will be the trigger that gets all the others going. I agree that the purpose of PP was to attract all of the high end stores and put them in one place. Now, since the ownership turnover, the mall is more and more like any other old mall. And since there is no great reason for people to go to Westminster otherwise (At least right now), the stores are going to suffer.

What would be nice is the always requested Trader Joe's to go in DownCity. Everyone and their brother wants a Trader Joe's. If you could figure a way to create urban foot traffic to Trader Joe's without making it too much of a hassle, I think that would help loads.

[provid]

Don't forget also one should consider the winter months the off season for providence. I dont think you can judge the traffic to any of these places until summer comes.

[PVDJack]

My boyfriend would KILL for a B&N Downcity. There was hope/speculation on the forum earlier that the retail spots in the Westin would be a good place for a B&N. There's also a possibility that Brown may turn the operation of it's bookstore on Thayer Street over to B&N. Of course this wouldn't help Downcity.

I don't know if any J&W bookstores are actually B&Ns (the one in Providence isn't). B&N is the online portal for a number of college bookstores, including J&W, but doesn't have brick and mortar shops for a lot of them. The BU bookstore in Kenmore Square is a B&N though.

Thanks for the background, Cotuit.

This is the info I was working off of in regards to B&N operating J&W book stores:

http://www.jwu.edu/prov/stu_bk.htm

Jeez... and with Brown possibly giving operations over to B&N as well, we could have B&N operating the majority of DownCityish bookstores, but still no actual B&N.

[brick]

Thanks for the background, Cotuit.

This is the info I was working off of in regards to B&N operating J&W book stores:

http://www.jwu.edu/prov/stu_bk.htm

Jeez... and with Brown possibly giving operations over to B&N as well, we could have B&N operating the majority of DownCityish bookstores, but still no actual B&N.

I think the best solution would be if B&N expanded the JWU bookstore in being a full retail store as well as the campus store. The Westin is too close to the mall and the Borders. Competition is fine and good, but why not get a book retailer into another part of DownCity? Of course, it would be even better if the JWU bookstore were also relocated as part of this. Right now it's location in the cookson bldg is kind of separate from everything else.

[Recchia]

I always found Borders to have a much better selection than Barnes & Noble, especially when it comes to social studies, urban studies, etc. I was at Borders at the mall the other day and I walked out with three great books, a similar trip to B & N (the one on 6th Ave in Manhattan) last week and I came up with nothing.

[Frankie811]

http://www.projo.com/opinion/columnists/co...s.17a4ab78.html

[CtownMikey]

""A rose to the federal authorities in Providence for removing the Jersey barriers from alongside the federal courthouse on Kennedy Plaza. The doctor eagerly awaits the decorative bollard covers that he assumes will be installed on the squat steel poles that for now have replaced the Jersey barriers.""

Will this continue with the barriers the face Burnside park?!

dont forget to read Frankie's link above!!

[Frankie811]

A rose to the idea of tearing down a perfectly good old building, 143 Washington St., home of New Japan restaurant, for a poopy-looking 10-story Sierra Suites hotel, postmodernism at its worst. The idea has the merit of being so bad that it will surely spur the Downcity Design Review Committee to suggest building it as a more attractive hotel on the site of a demolished Fogarty Building.

I emailed DB on this, telling him that I found it interesting that he would comment on a project that the journal hasen't even reported on. I'm sure that his readers will wonder what the hell he's talking about. But we know better, don't we. Maybe some folks will google this and find their way here.

[BBascule]

Raspberries to our civic leaders, who seem so heedless of how Providence is throwing away its remarkable beauty. Hartford, here we come!

-Brussat

Hmmm. Maybe we'll get lucky and he'll move away!

[Cotuit]

http://www.projo.com/opinion/columnists/co...s.17a4ab78.html

I absolutely refuse to read it.

[Cotuit]

A rose to the idea of tearing down a perfectly good old building, 143 Washington St., home of New Japan restaurant, for a poopy-looking 10-story Sierra Suites hotel, postmodernism at its worst. The idea has the merit of being so bad that it will surely spur the Downcity Design Review Committee to suggest building it as a more attractive hotel on the site of a demolished Fogarty Building.

If he had his way we would have nothing but postmoderism in this city, be careful what you wish for...

I emailed DB on this, telling him that I found it interesting that he would comment on a project that the journal hasen't even reported on. I'm sure that his readers will wonder what the hell he's talking about. But we know better, don't we. Maybe some folks will google this and find their way here.

Good point, the average ProJo reader would be rather confused by this.

[Cotuit]

Ari:

I saw a sign in the window of the Peerless Building last night offering restaurant space. Can you shed any light on where Cornish is hoping to place a restaurant and what type of restaurant they want? I think Westminster needs something between tazza and L'Epicureo. L'Epicureo is too high end, and tazza is too casual. The street needs a mid-priced sit-down restaurant where people can get a good meal at a reasonable price in a pinch.

[Recchia]

http://www.projo.com/opinion/columnists/co...s.17a4ab78.html

Raspberries to our civic leaders, who seem so heedless of how Providence is throwing away its remarkable beauty. Hartford, here we come!

What the hell does he mean by this?

[Cotuit]

What the hell does he mean by this?

I'm sure it has something to do with GTECH.

[markOne]

""A rose to the federal authorities in Providence for removing the Jersey barriers from alongside the federal courthouse on Kennedy Plaza. The doctor eagerly awaits the decorative bollard covers that he assumes will be installed on the squat steel poles that for now have replaced the Jersey barriers.""

Will this continue with the barriers the face Burnside park?!

Do you mean the barriers in front of the PO that seem to be lingering (and providing parking for PO employees)? I expect they will go away when the covers are put on the posts.

I spoke with one of the federal marshals a week ago and he said the buildings will be surrounded by the steel tubes (check) which are filled with concrete (check) and then covered so they will look like the posts in Kennedy Plaza (soon I hope). He said that he did not expect the posts to be connected by chains like the posts in KP.

[runawayjim]

Thanks for the background, Cotuit.

This is the info I was working off of in regards to B&N operating J&W book stores:

http://www.jwu.edu/prov/stu_bk.htm

Jeez... and with Brown possibly giving operations over to B&N as well, we could have B&N operating the majority of DownCityish bookstores, but still no actual B&N.

BN does some nice stuff with the college bookstores. the GA tech bookstore in atlanta is beautiful and it has a nice computer store and GA tech merchandise. while i am not a fan of the whole idea of corporatizing the college bookstores, if it does have to happen, they do a nice job with it. something like this would work great downtown.

[gregw]

You see those metal bollards all over Washington DC now. Some of them can be retracted back into the ground to allow the passage of emergency vehicles.

BTW, does anyone know if the removal of all those nice parking spaces along Greene St. next to the Verizon bldg is antiterrorism related? I know that telephone exchanges are prime targets in warfare, but just can't imagine that the Verizon bldg in little old Providence could be such a likely terrorist target to justify the elimination of like 25 parking spaces.

I spoke with one of the federal marshals a week ago and he said the buildings will be surrounded by the steel tubes (check) which are filled with concrete (check) and then covered so they will look like the posts in Kennedy Plaza (soon I hope). He said that he did not expect the posts to be connected by chains like the posts in KP.

[brick]

BTW, does anyone know if the removal of all those nice parking spaces along Greene St. next to the Verizon bldg is antiterrorism related? I know that telephone exchanges are prime targets in warfare, but just can't imagine that the Verizon bldg in little old Providence could be such a likely terrorist target to justify the elimination of like 25 parking spaces.

Verizon likes to have that space avilable to park their trucks during the day. Why they don't just have a "No Parking 7-7" kind of thing I don't know. I asked a meter maid one day when I was over there and that's the explanation she gave. She could have been talking out her butt but it does seem plausible.

[HartfordTycoon]

Raspberries to our civic leaders, who seem so heedless of how Providence is throwing away its remarkable beauty. Hartford, here we come!

What the hell does he mean by this?

I would assume that he is alluding to the self-mutilation that was Hartford's Urban Renewal in the 50's and 60's that led us to demolish block after block of beautiful Historic Buildings Downtown and replace them with such gems as Constitution Plaza and The Hartford Civic Center. Leaving us with a hodge podge of Old and New, historic elegance mixed with 60's through 80's era garbage.

[MikeR]

I would assume that he is alluding to the self-mutilation that was Hartford's Urban Renewal in the 50's and 60's that led us to demolish block after block of beautiful Historic Buildings Downtown and replace them with such gems as Constitution Plaza and The Hartford Civic Center. Leaving us with a hodge podge of Old and New, historic elegance mixed with 60's through 80's era garbage.

Brussat was referring to exactly that. I was hoping he was actually referring to the business climate, though. Hartford does have the edge over Providence on that score!

[Frankie811]

A rose to the idea of tearing down a perfectly good old building, 143 Washington St., home of New Japan restaurant, for a poopy-looking 10-story Sierra Suites hotel, postmodernism at its worst. The idea has the merit of being so bad that it will surely spur the Downcity Design Review Committee to suggest building it as a more attractive hotel on the site of a demolished Fogarty Building.

I emailed DB on this, telling him that I found it interesting that he would comment on a project that the journal hasen't even reported on. I'm sure that his readers will wonder what the hell he's talking about. But we know better, don't we. Maybe some folks will google this and find their way here.

Here's his response to my email.

The Journal will, I presume, run a story when the proposal becomes

public at the Downcity Design Review meeting on Monday. I know about it because

I get their agenda in the mail, and I received a letter from PPS as well.

Unfortunately, I will be out of town Monday, but I presume I'll address the

hotel proposal in coming months.

As for the Journal's lack of a story on it, we fall down on the job in a

lot of ways, especially in covering downtown development, but this is not an

example of that - yet.

- Dave

[mr2448]

Verizon likes to have that space avilable to park their trucks during the day. Why they don't just have a "No Parking 7-7" kind of thing I don't know. I asked a meter maid one day when I was over there and that's the explanation she gave. She could have been talking out her butt but it does seem plausible.

They are making space to get rid of the number system and return to the old names for the telephone exchanges. We soon expext GAspee, DExter, WIlliams, PLantations, JAckson, CHerry, HOpkins, etc to make a triumphant return to those "number challanged" among us!

Mark