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CtownMikey

By CtownMikey
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Garris Town

Garris

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Intersting ProJo editorial. Mentions locating a casino (if it inevitably happens) at Fields Point, and other ways Providence can help itself....like sell parts of the Scituate Reservoir watershed for development (although he does say park development, I got kind of scared for a second...)

http://www.projo.com/opinion/contributors/...n.12a28be9.html

Fascinating editorial. This individual is certainly thinking outside the box for Providence (he should post here!). Some thoughts:

- The Field's Point idea: I'm anti-casino as he is, but I like this location as well. It would be a great complement to the ideas for the "Landing" down Allen's Ave and would connect this region to the downtown well. Forget a monorail, though (expensive, hard to upgrade and expand... Ask Seattle). LRT would be the preferred connector...

- Developing the East Side Park: I believe he is talking about the Blackstone Park, which is dramatically underutilized, somewhat run down, sketchy during the evenings, and really only has a great view of the tanks on the East Providence waterfront. I've thought myself that this would be a great location for an entirely new, mixed use, upscale East Side neighborhood, a new Wayland Sq if you will. The location is perfect, right adjacent to some of Providence's most expensive homes. It's also, like Wayland Sq, abutting the main East-West roads and that unused underground rail line. Additionally, it would potentially allow for the development of River Rd into a more useful North-South artery, which the East Side needs.

However, I'm sure this idea has absolutely zero chance of happening. It would, I'm sure, be the target of zealous, insurgency-style opposition from the Blackstone Neighborhood, Wayland Sq Neighborhood, and Fox Point Neighborhood groups, who would bemoan the loss of green space and its negative traffic implications. They would complain their home values would drop. These are the ultimate NIMBY neighbhorhood groups, the ones that would rather line the new 195 with trees rather than see the area around it used for development.

- The Scituate Reservoir: Interesting idea, but it's just as doomed for the reasons above. Open space groups, area residents, etc would never allow this...

- Roger Williams Park: This has promise. Especially a "Tavern on the Green" style destination restaurant there would do quite well, I'm sure. RWP is likely a grossly underused regional asset.

- Triggs Memorial Golf Course: I don't know much about this, so I won't comment.

His takehome point, that there is a lack of visionary leadership, is the key one, and was one of my own key points in my "10 Actionable Ideas" for Providence thread as well. We really need a vision for Providence, from each individual neighborhood on up to the region at large, and then need to commit to it and make it happen.

Thoughts?

- Garris

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basachs Burg

basachs

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I have no problem with any of these suggestion with the exception of the development of parks. Providence has a ton of abandoned/underutilized and already developed areas from which to implement visionary ideas. It does not strike me as being particularly visionary to advocate developing woodlands/open space into housing developments. True visionary ideas are to take industrial space and reuse it, like the recent Armory Properties proposal for the West Fountain St area.

Parks and open space are important to a city. I don't advocate for tree lined highways, that is more than a little silly. But I definitely advocate for maintained parkspace in a city. While the parks that the writer is talking about may be underutilized, tearing them out and replacing them with homes is not the best way to utilize the park space. Basically, you dont get park space back. His next suggestion about RWP is more sensitive to the park issue and is a very good approach to better utilize a natural resource.

I love development in a city, it is a sign of growth and vitality. But lets redevelop places where only parking lots exist or neglected buildings. Turning Providence into a concrete jungle does not seem to signal a vital city, merely a misguided one.

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Baines Hamlet

Baines

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- The Field's Point idea: I'm anti-casino as he is, but I like this location as well. It would be a great complement to the ideas for the "Landing" down Allen's Ave and would connect this region to the downtown well. Forget a monorail, though (expensive, hard to upgrade and expand... Ask Seattle). LRT would be the preferred connector...

- The Scituate Reservoir: Interesting idea, but it's just as doomed for the reasons above. Open space groups, area residents, etc would never allow this...

- Roger Williams Park: This has promise. Especially a "Tavern on the Green" style destination restaurant there would do quite well, I'm sure. RWP is likely a grossly underused regional asset.

-

Thoughts?

- Garris

I will address three points...the only one's I have enough knowledge of to have thoughts.

Field's Point Casino - is an outstanding location for a casino for three reasons: a long suffering area, a viable economic engine (Weather is an obstacle that southeastern cities never have to face...it isn't like there is a chance for a Busch Gardens), and it would extend the nightlife activity of Downcity from the south. That extension would best be served by combination of the existing trolley system and an LRT. Think of the posibilities of an integrated system that ties the Casino, Waterplace, and the Power Block.

Scituate Reservoir land sale - a dangerous idea for two reasons: issues in another jurisdiction, no real benefit and a loss of land that cannot be recovered from one of the nation's cleanest public water systems.

Roger Williams Park - This is one of America's great urban parks (mostly due to the best zoo in the region) and any thoughful enhancement, like name restaurants, would be a positive.

In closing, his best point is that Providence is rich in potential and has much underused land. This is a unique asset for a northeastern city...but it requires bold ideas and action.

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mr2448 Whistle-Stop

mr2448

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Blackstone Park or River Road should not be developed at any cost. This type of green area is rare in a city Providence's size and should remain as it is. The place to develope is behind the East Side Marketplace. It is a multi acre site that has had many proposals in the past. Opening up the Seekonk River to the public with mix use developement would be a great asset to the city. Also, LTR thru the old train tunnel into downtown and across the Seekonk River into EP would relieve traffic on I-195. LTR could start at the Narr. Park area of Pawt and continue thru Phillpsdale, where there is more mix use development taking place, into Providence with a stop just before going thru the tunnel. This route had been looked at as an alternative to the current Amtrak route. LTR could also head into the East Bay now that P & W is abandoning some EP trackage. The route could go to Wamp. Trail thru the old Mobil access line or into Bristol sharing the old Providence, Warren and Bristol line with the bike path.

Also, it is time for you to take a visit to RWP. Truly one of the great regional zoo's in the country. You would see that it is one of the most intergrated assets in Providence. It reaches not only the immediate neighbourhoods, but is used by a great portion of the citizens of Providence.

Mark

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Cotuit Megalopolis

Cotuit

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I have no problem with any of these suggestion with the exception of the development of parks. Providence has a ton of abandoned/underutilized and already developed areas from which to implement visionary ideas. It does not strike me as being particularly visionary to advocate developing woodlands/open space into housing developments. True visionary ideas are to take industrial space and reuse it, like the recent Armory Properties proposal for the West Fountain St area.

I agree completely, I think developing parks is a rather hairbrain idea for a city that has so much underutilized developed property, North Main Street anyone?

Roger Williams Park I would like to see improved. I think transit is key to that. We need to give our visitors a safe, comforable, convenient way to get to the park before we put money into improving it. I'd focus on Burnside, Station Park, and the Providence River Waterfront before moving to improving RWP. I think the zoo is excellent, but I think the park needs one more big attraction to give people a feeling that making a trip out there is worth it (and it is out there if you're hoping to have resdents and visitors not use their cars). I forget who first brought up the idea, but an Ocean State Aquarium along 95 across from the zoo would be the ideal attraction I think.

I'm against the casino too, I think we can have a nightlife in the city without one. New York, London, Chicago, San Francisco, Miami... no casinos there.

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Frankie811 City

Frankie811

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I'm against the casino too, I think we can have a nightlife in the city without one. New York, London, Chicago, San Francisco, Miami... no casinos there.

Great point, and I totally agree. Some people think that casinos are the answer to all economic problems. I want to see people spending their disposable dollars at PPAC, Trinity, PP Mall and local restuarants and retail outlets. As Cianci once pointed out, there isn't much culture in Las Vegas.

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Cotuit Megalopolis

Cotuit

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Two-way Weybosset and Empire 2 years away.

I think it's unfortunate that this project will take this long. The article mentions removing the comfort station in front of PPAC but doesn't mention what will happen to it. I think Ari stated earlier that it is moving to LaSalle Square.

I wonder if this 2 year timetable impacts Grant's Block, Ari mentioned they need Weybosset to be two-way for the parking garage to work.

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Frankie811 City

Frankie811

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Two-way Weybosset and Empire 2 years away.

I think it's unfortunate that this project will take this long. The article mentions removing the comfort station in front of PPAC but doesn't mention what will happen to it. I think Ari stated earlier that it is moving to LaSalle Square.

I wonder if this 2 year timetable impacts Grant's Block, Ari mentioned they need Weybosset to be two-way for the parking garage to work.

I'm totally against turning Weybosset St into a two-way street. Ever travel Weybosset St on a Thursday, Friday or Saturday night? Club goers travel down Dorrance St to get to the clubs on Pine St and in the process they back up traffic on Weybosset St. At least the way it is now you have three lanes to turn left or right unto Dorrance or continue straight ahead down Weybosset. If it's made two-way we'll probably see traffic back up to Richmond or even Empire St. And if PPAC has something going on then forget about it. And what do we do about the bus stops on Weybosset St in front of the Johnson & Wales Library? Are cars going to have to go around the parked buses by driving into the opposite lane of travel, into oncoming traffic? So why can't future residents of Grant's Block get to the garage by driving down Weybosset St to Union St? Is this such a major inconvience?

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Cotuit Megalopolis

Cotuit

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I'm totally against turning Weybosset St into a two-way street. Ever travel Weybosset St on a Thursday, Friday or Saturday night? Club goers travel down Dorrance St to get to the clubs on Pine St and in the process they back up traffic on Weybosset St. At least the way it is now you have three lanes to turn left or right unto Dorrance or continue straight ahead down Weybosset. If it's made two-way we'll probably see traffic back up to Richmond or even Empire St. And if PPAC has something going on then forget about it. And what do we do about the bus stops on Weybosset St in front of the Johnson & Wales Library? Are cars going to have to go around the parked buses by driving into the opposite lane of travel, into oncoming traffic? So why can't future residents of Grant's Block get to the garage by driving down Weybosset St to Union St? Is this such a major inconvience?

I don't see it being as bad as you suggest. Part of the reason there is traffic on Weybosset now, is because Empire is one way. Lots of traffic that clogs Weybosset now, will have Empire as an option. I think Richmond has also been floated as a candidate to be made two-way (it is from Point Street to 195). This could also help ease traffic on Weybosset.

I'm sure the traffic engineers have considered the bus situation at J&W. It shouldn't be a problem to create a pull-off for the buses.

PPAC... Well it's a city, you should expect a little traffic when there is a big event in the city. Residents should know to avoid that area already when PPAC has an event, that won't change. Two-way Richmond would help in this case though.

Being able to head South/West on Weybosset will also pull traffic out of Kennedy Plaza and could even pull traffic off Memorial as people will now be able to use Dorrance to Weybosset to get to the West Side.

those busses should be forced to drop off and pick up the JWUers in the back of the building.. along Pine street is it?

It wouldn't be a terrible idea to put at least the J&W buses on Pine, but right now, Pine runs one-way in the other direction. Pine could become two-way I suppose, but I don't think there is enough room on Pine for two-way traffic, and street parking. Perhaps with Weybosset being two-way, Pine could be turned in the other direction to accomodate buses.

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Frankie811 City

Frankie811

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I don't see it being as bad as you suggest. Part of the reason there is traffic on Weybosset now, is because Empire is one way. Lots of traffic that clogs Weybosset now, will have Empire as an option. I think Richmond has also been floated as a candidate to be made two-way (it is from Point Street to 195). This could also help ease traffic on Weybosset.

There is no traffic on Weybosset St now. Not during the day or night except between the hours of 10:30pm - midnight on weekends with the club crowd heads to Pine St or when PPAC lets out. Of course, since people don't know the city and how to naviagte it, it's like let's follow the leader.

I'm sure the traffic engineers have considered the bus situation at J&W. It shouldn't be a problem to create a pull-off for the buses.

Let's hope so. I'm sure that RIPTA had some input into this plan.

PPAC... Well it's a city, you should expect a little traffic when there is a big event in the city. Residents should know to avoid that area already when PPAC has an event, that won't change. Two-way Richmond would help in this case though.

I agree!

Being able to head South/West on Weybosset will also pull traffic out of Kennedy Plaza and could even pull traffic off Memorial as people will now be able to use Dorrance to Weybosset to get to the West Side.

It wouldn't be a terrible idea to put at least the J&W buses on Pine, but right now, Pine runs one-way in the other direction. Pine could become two-way I suppose, but I don't think there is enough room on Pine for two-way traffic, and street parking. Perhaps with Weybosset being two-way, Pine could be turned in the other direction to accomodate buses.

Let's hope so. I'm sure that RIPTA had some input into this plan.

There is no traffic on Weybosset St now. Not during the day or night except between the hours of 10:30pm - midnight on weekends with the club crowd or when PPAC lets out. Of course, since people don't know the city and how to naviagte it, it's like let's follow the leader.

Weybosset St heads West to East. I agree with having J&W buses utilize Pine St as often as possible. As I said before, the only area that I usually experience traffic jams downtown, day or night, is on Francis St near the mall. And Fountain St during the afternoon/evening commute. I must admit that I do like Washington St being two-way now even though I was intially against it. Empire St will become a nightmare when the Civic Center lets out if it becomes two-way. It's bad enough now being one-way. I've NEVER been in a traffic in Kennedy Plaza. NEVER! I've seen more trafffic on Thayer St.

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AriPVD Hamlet

AriPVD

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It's not the residents of Grant's Block that need it to be two-way, they'd figure it out. It's visitors to the public garage. Also, one way streets are bad urbanism. They were devised in the era of urban renewal as a way to allow more automobile flow. They also reduce connectivity in and around downtown.

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MikeR Hamlet

MikeR

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I'm totally against turning Weybosset St into a two-way street. Ever travel Weybosset St on a Thursday, Friday or Saturday night? Club goers travel down Dorrance St to get to the clubs on Pine St and in the process they back up traffic on Weybosset St. At least the way it is now you have three lanes to turn left or right unto Dorrance or continue straight ahead down Weybosset. If it's made two-way we'll probably see traffic back up to Richmond or even Empire St. And if PPAC has something going on then forget about it. And what do we do about the bus stops on Weybosset St in front of the Johnson & Wales Library? Are cars going to have to go around the parked buses by driving into the opposite lane of travel, into oncoming traffic? So why can't future residents of Grant's Block get to the garage by driving down Weybosset St to Union St? Is this such a major inconvience?

I agree w/ Frankie on this one. I think the big problem Weybosset has is the eway the road jogs left and then right just in front of PPAC. Cars routinely drive over the road striping because of the alignment, so the stripes wear off the road quickly and no one knowes exactly where the lanes are, and causes the bottleneck. Plus, the road is not of uniform width. I think the street simply needs to be straighted out and be made uniform in width, and that should help drivers knowing which lane they are in.

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