Gaines Street

[AlaninTally]

I love the discourse back and forth about what flora make Tallahassee not part of the rest of FL. South FL is especially a prickly issue for a lot of posters it seems. Poonther excluded

I love palms in all forms and I love seeing them used in Tally landscaping. We have some palms native to our region so we should use them just as much as the over-used crepe myrtle.

On a final note....You may notice the signs around town and I suppose the rest of FL that mark buildings of historical significance. The sign says "Florida Heritage." On the sign is an image of a cornice type thing being supported by 3 PALM TREES

[cobyguy]

3. While I think this a grand idea, this is only a Res. Inn. It's not a luxury hotel. That type of entrance is only used on Hiltons etc and hopefully will be used on the Civic Center Marriott when that is built in 2050. Once they announced it was to be a Res. Inn, I knew the design was going to be simple. I've never seen a grand entrance on a Res. Inn. the hotel doesn't really work like that. It's more long term apt type stays as I'm sure you know. Of course now someone will dig up a pic of some obsure Res. Inn w/a grand entrance and prove me wrong.

Still needs an entrance that is inviting to the street...grand or otherwise.

5. This is the point I disagree w/most. That type of thinking is a little too provincial for me. "It's always been this way so we got to do it that way" type of attitude doesn't get it w/me. I'm of the mindset that Tally is the State Capital and it's cool if some of our bldg. design represent architecture from all over ther state. Having the same everywhere would make us look "too Disney." IMO. I agree that it's post-modern, but I don't see how you come up w/it being art deco. I can sorta kinda if I squit my eyes maybe see that, but art deco just doesn't come to mind w/this bldg. Maybe I spent too much time in South FL where eye popping art deco is to see it in this bldg. We are barely in the temperate zone....we are almost tropical....so a little blurring of the lines is cool w/me. Nothing I hate more than deciduous trees and their ugly falling leaving. Sycamores are the worst! Big ugly leaves and bark..ugh.

I said TROPICAL DECO- not "Art Deco", huge difference!. Art Deco was a particular movement in design during early 20th century that has very specific set of design principles that define it. Tallahassee has a few great examples of true Art Deco architecture. 3 good ones are located on east gaines near cascades park. They are state office buildings. And they are not tropical in their treatment. Better examples- The Empire State & Chrystler buildings in Manhattan are ART DECO out of their minds- but NOT tropical.....

Another great Tallahassee Example is the Armory/Senior Center on corner of 7th and N. Monroe..... FABULOUS Art Deco building that is very Tallahassee in its finishes....... (I wish their was a hotel on gaines like that building!) The old, old Coke Plant on corner of Saint Michaels and All Saints- again good us of particular period of architecture that is local in its treatment. There are a few other buildings around town too some old gas stations. Maybe some private homes. Just can't place them now. Remember that just because South Beach is famous for its art deco buildings which are tropical in their treatment, does not mean that that style is limited to Miami (a tropical city). Art Deco was an international style that affected everything of its time period- Buildings, toasters, appliances, airplanes, jewelry, silverware, Ocean Liners, Trains, Cars, plumbing fixtures, literally everything that was mass produced.

TROPICAL DECO- usually means decorating or treatment motiffs and colors that one associates SPECIFICALLY with a tropical climate. ei...strong "tropical colors, tropical plants, birds, seashells, smooth exterior finishes, the ocean, etc... It is not an architural period..... It just looks out of place- contrived even - in Tallahassee. To the trained eye its a huge distinction.....When you build a building that has no regard for its surroundings or makes no particular statement- then you are either snubbing your nose or in Disney World...I think "contrived" when I think "Disney" ... I think contrived when I see how that Hotel looks.

While post modern is a specific period it just sort of encompassed all this really bad architecture that we have all been spoonfed as a result of our post WWII , suburban, freeway overexpansion- examples are fast food joints, motels, stripmalls,mobile homes, malls for that matter, casinos- anything that is built without any regard for context, place, history, and or any insitefull- thoughtful design standards.

Don't take my word for it- ask any architect who really knows this stuff. Give Huffman/Tarmey architects a call or Gilchrist/Crowe Architects, or Dan Donovan with Planning Dept. or Kieth Grey with FAMU school of architecture.....They're all in the phone book... They'll probably trash me for posting their names too....I have a working relationship with all of them. They'll all agree with you about my personality too.

[poonther]

Hey bud, my typing art deco instead of tropical deco was just a typo on my part. Still isn't a tropical deco look to me either. But thanks for the deco/tropical lesson, been awhile since I was in MURP school. Always good to be refreshed.

Just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one!

[csmurphy8885]

I like the hotel. I think they could've done a whole lot worse. I think a larger project would have been very profitable. I like the way the corner will be. I think the gas stations are much more of a thing to complain about. I love the grafffiti on gaines... and i think those 2 stations will be what starts the craze for gaines. Itll be sexy.

[cobyguy]

Hey bud, my typing art deco instead of tropical deco was just a typo on my part. Still isn't a tropical deco look to me either. But thanks for the deco/tropical lesson, been awhile since I was in MURP school. Always good to be refreshed.

Just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one!

So we agree on post modern at least.... How would you catagorize the design motiffs?

I am extremely more concerned about the one way traffic patterns proposed by Mr. Wright et al...on the eleventh hour ....

1. This is in defiance of a unanimous vote by the Gaines Street Vitalization Committy.

2. his plan will NOT achieve the goals set out 13 years ago by the city to create a Pedestrian Oriented, Multi-Use Corridore.

3. his plan will increase speeding, safety issues, accidents etc...speeding past the destination...

4. It is an insult to all the hundreds- thousands even, of voters who have been waiting all this time for these goals to be met- even voted for a sales tax hike to get us the money. Gaines will not look like those nice concept renderings if Mr. Wright has his "One " way....

5. I really REALLY think this is about encouraging a development on the O'Connel Property just south of the Civic Center.....If so don't hold the cards so close-just let us hear your plans. Show us the designs so we may have some input...we have to live with it ultimately...after the developer has gone home to Atlanta or Boca or somewhere.... We are talking about the public's interest ( and money). This will not bode well for the commission I fear or worst the public's confidence in the City.

6. The city has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in completely rezoning a corridore of 10plus distinct districts...No developer would have that kind of time or resources to do what has been done using public money. It really is a coup for any developer. But stick with the plan determined by the public if you are going to take public effort and use it for your own gain. (Gaines?) ok bad pun....

Im not so much speaking to Mr. Poonther here on this. But instead to the casual readers of these message boards- I have been directing the entire Gaines Street Vitalization Commitee, Commisioners, Dept. Heads to this board recently. Many people in my office read these. I'm just hoping there are other folks out in the ether who will get a little fired up too. And start asking some critical questions... just going along with something is NOT better ... I'm happy to let gaines sit until someone in the future has the juevos to do whats good for the people. Most of the people. Especially the Property owners.

[gibson]

4. It is an insult to all the hundreds- thousands even, of voters who have been waiting all this time for these goals to be met- even voted for a sales tax hike to get us the money. Gaines will not look like those nice concept renderings if Mr. Wright has his "One " way....

well i think it is time to email the commissioners......everyday....

g

[stjoe]

cobguy,

Well put. Just more reasons why the Gaines Street Project will likely not succeed in it's original mission of making the area a "destination area". I keep hearing "well it is better than what was there"...true, that would of happened WITHOUT the city dumping all that time and taxpayer money on it though. It only gives ammo to those that don't trust the city when it wants to tax people for projects like this. We just don't believe the city can succeed. This will be another example.

[cobyguy]

4. It is an insult to all the hundreds- thousands even, of voters who have been waiting all this time for these goals to be met- even voted for a sales tax hike to get us the money. Gaines will not look like those nice concept renderings if Mr. Wright has his "One " way....

well i think it is time to email the commissioners......everyday....

g

Thanks G- how was your meeting with Mr. Wright?

[cobyguy]

cobguy,

Well put. Just more reasons why the Gaines Street Project will likely not succeed in it's original mission of making the area a "destination area". I keep hearing "well it is better than what was there"...true, that would of happened WITHOUT the city dumping all that time and taxpayer money on it though. It only gives ammo to those that don't trust the city when it wants to tax people for projects like this. We just don't believe the city can succeed. This will be another example.

Thanks St Joe...Are you affiliated with the St. Joe Company? Please voice your concerns to the Commision also and especially to Mr. Wright...I was lobbying Commisioner Katz and Gillium at a campaign fundraiser last night. Both of their responces were "thanks for your input. I'm undecided on this matter still" . Its not what I wanted to hear.. I am good friends with Mr. Wrights daughter. So I gonna try that approach. I just wish the city would tell us what they are up to.

People are just kind of worn out I'm affraid....maybe the city is betting on that.

[Go Gators]

I am good friends with Mr. Wrights daughter. So I gonna try that approach. I just wish the city would tell us what they are up to.

Let me just advise, as someone who works in the political/lobbying field, the "lobbied" typically dont like it when lobbyists (or whomever) go to their family to try and persuade...that typically just makes realtions a lot worse. No disrespect intended, and Im sure you know exactly what your doing...just trying to help

[AlaninTally]

Hey Cobyguy,

Just a friendly word of advice on posting. It's considered bad manners to type in bold. It's sort of tantamount to shouting.

Certainly bold someone's name if you are trying to address them or ask a question.

I think you will have an easier time on this board if you show a little bit of this posting etiquette.

[cobyguy]

Hey Cobyguy,

Just a friendly word of advice on posting. It's considered bad manners to type in bold. It's sort of tantamount to shouting.

Certainly bold someone's name if you are trying to address them or ask a question.

I think you will have an easier time on this board if you show a little bit of this posting etiquette.

I thought all caps meant shouting? Bold was for emphasis? Is this downtown Alan T.? I often shout though even when I'm just thinking..... unless I've been drinking..... How do you guys feel about color fonts and various fonts styles? Seriously....I just want to fit in...

[cobyguy]

Let me just advise, as someone who works in the political/lobbying field, the "lobbied" typically dont like it when lobbyists (or whomever) go to their family to try and persuade...that typically just makes realtions a lot worse. No disrespect intended, and Im sure you know exactly what your doing...just trying to help

Actually I often shoot from the hip.... letting the end justify the means as long as its legal and ethical... Subtle is rarely in my repartoir..... "lobbying" is also something else I know very little about. I do know what I want and what the People of Gaines Street Corridore want. Sometimes the "proper channels" break down. You have to be a little creative. I will endeavor to learn protocol though.... thanks for the advice...

[Florida]

Do the people of the Gaines Street Corridor and the People of the City of Tallahassee as a whole, see eye-2-eye on the future of this district. I personally would have done something differently with the heigh restrictions in that area... but I don't live in the Gaines Street corridor so I don't know if I'm qualifitied to comment on it anymore. Its starting to feel more and more like I must live in a particular neighborhood, or district to have input on something going on in my city.

[Go Gators]

Actually I often shoot from the hip.... letting the end justify the means as long as its legal and ethical... Subtle is rarely in my repartoir..... "lobbying" is also something else I know very little about. I do know what I want and what the People of Gaines Street Corridore want. Sometimes the "proper channels" break down. You have to be a little creative. I will endeavor to learn protocol though.... thanks for the advice...

No problem man, I personally agree with the ends justifying the means! I was just saying from all my personal experiences (and there have been a few) Good luck with it!

[cobyguy]

Do the people of the Gaines Street Corridor and the People of the City of Tallahassee as a whole, see eye-2-eye on the future of this district. I personally would have done something differently with the heigh restrictions in that area... but I don't live in the Gaines Street corridor so I don't know if I'm qualifitied to comment on it anymore. Its starting to feel more and more like I must live in a particular neighborhood, or district to have input on something going on in my city.

[ Well yes and no-- You have a say if you are a city resident but if you are actually affected , quality of life, money, property values then you certainly have a greater say. Certain rights do run with the title of the property.... But certainly- we are all Tallahasseeans...

The people of the "Corridore" see eye-eye. That may not be whats best for commuters from Ox Bottom. But we have to live here. People have been pushed around in this country for centuries cause their voice was different that those who were in power. Understand that what we want along Gaines WILL help Tallahassee- It will create a jewel in the crown of Tallahassee's revitalisation efforts- we have been working on this for 13 years- and we altered and modified to accomodate everyone who has presented their dilema appropriatly- The Gaines Street Plan in its current form compliments the campuses, Cascades Park, Down Town , the Civic center.... What Mr. Wright wants is to appease a very small group of outside developers- without regard for the wishes of the people of the corridore.

I don't get the height restrictions either...I'd rather let market demands determine that... If you can justify a 20 story building than build it. Height restrictions was a fight I fought and won with regards to the Cloisters and my personal house. They never presented a valid arguement- only said "just because"..

But it better be designed right! And I did - I think. I am so against the flagrant use of power just cuase your party is in power- better show me some facts mister-man!!!

[cobyguy]

I just thought of something before I go have a glass of Shiraz.... (or 4)... an even better east-west connector would be Tharpe Street connected to Thomasville road. It would serve as a major benefit to the entire population of our fair city! But we would have to loose a large part of a small neighborhood- no big loss. It would be in the best interest of the people of Tallahassee right .... that little neighborhood is Los Robles....

Why is Gaines any different than Los Robles? I'll give up Gaines if Los Robles will give a little too...thats compromise right???? I'm gonna go have that shiraz now..... Hey I'm usually at Cafe Cabernete on Fridays and saturdays usually outside having a cigar (or Marboros) ... shaved head dark features late 30-ish just ask any one of the staff where im sitting... ask for Corri not coby....

[cobyguy]

Ok last one... Im usaully at Cafe around 10pm,,,,

What about taking part of the train tracks and making a GREAT- east west light rail artery from TCC all the way to chaires and with stops and connectors to ALL of Down Town , the Parkway, the hospital, the Blairstone, tennessee street and Southwood????.... and stops all along the Gaines street Corridore!!!

The citzens of the state voted for that initiative too....

[Florida]

Ok last one... Im usaully at Cafe around 10pm,,,,

What about taking part of the train tracks and making a GREAT- east west light rail artery from TCC all the way to chaires and with stops and connectors to ALL of Down Town , the Parkway, the hospital, the Blairstone, tennessee street and Southwood????.... and stops all along the Gaines street Corridore!!!

The citzens of the state voted for that initiative too....

I really like this idea.

[csmurphy8885]

I love the idea... adn we could utilize some of the land out in chaires to provide a park and ride for comuters to the east. That would also give options for students living farther from the dense city. And wow, the train tracks get a wonderful view of lake lafayette and TB park... and even under the blairstone extension and over appalachee and monroe... cascade... wow what a waste only letting frieght see these sights! I was thinking of how good that rail way would be for a road location, it would be a nice location for a bypass...

[gibson]

yea yea spoke with michael wright @ the city about concerns with the project. he assured me that in no way the revised vision of gaines would take away from the destination appeal, mentioning that different means would be used to slow traffic and make it a ped friendly, biz friendly, live friendly. he also mentioned that his wifes father use to farm in the gaines st. corridor....i guess to empahasize his good steward approach to the revised plans. i asked him about setbacks but he referred to the developer having that decision....the city should require from the developer setbacks to create a truly ped friendly, cafe/rest. scene outside....

where i can i view the gsvc plans for the area. all i see online is the 2001 version...

wrote all commissioners and asked for comments and heard nada

that is the whole enchilada!

[Florida]

thanks for the report Gibson!

[csmurphy8885]

farming on gaines and grocery shoppiong at the moon!

[cobyguy]

Don't take anything at face value - make them show you in writing... The GSVC has 13 years of proven progress. Trust in the people who are charged to do this job... And the power for change is in the hands of the people. Not the government! Send those letters with your ideas. The commision WILL listen.. Also ask the Democrat to get involved. I have forwarded several of my posts to this board to the paper as well as the Commision.

Mr. Wright is shooting from the hip on this one. Demand he show us his plan in writing before we settle. I really don't care whos father farmed what- whats he doing now? Mr. Wright has never responded to a single letter I've written him in 13 years... Mayor Madox has. Commisioner Lightsey has. Commisioner Radcliff has. Commisioner Winchester has. So why not these other guys?

Its about intestinal fortitude! - I'd rather have a commision that makes some serious intelligent desisions now- for the future- than a future one that makes desisions to fix the past mistakes.

[Florida]

Don't take anything at face value - make them show you in writing... The GSVC has 13 years of proven progress. Trust in the people who are charged to do this job... And the power for change is in the hands of the people. Not the government! Send those letters with your ideas. The commision WILL listen.. Also ask the Democrat to get involved. I have forwarded several of my posts to this board to the paper as well as the Commision.

Mr. Wright is shooting from the hip on this one. Demand he show us his plan in writing before we settle. I really don't care whos father farmed what- whats he doing now? Mr. Wright has never responded to a single letter I've written him in 13 years... Mayor Madox has. Commisioner Lightsey has. Commisioner Radcliff has. Commisioner Winchester has. So why not these other guys?

Because unlike the Commissioners, he doesn't answer to you. They do.