Gaines Street

[Florida]

good work downtown.

Poother, I absolutely agree with you. Students are going to anchor the revitalization of Gaines, and it would only be right for us (still a student) to test things out first.

[Go Gators]

FSU used the Gaines Street project as a lure to the school when I made my first trip up here my Junior year of hs. When will this actually start to happen? When Im an alumni? Glad to see the marriot coming along...ill get to used some rewards for a mini-vacation

[Florida]

LOL. I'm surprised they were talking about Gaines to College Students back then. You're right, they've been working on getting things done on Gaines for quite some time. Aquiring the land has been a major challenge but we've almost got enough to get us started. We should look for and see some work starting Nov/Dec 2006 or early 2007 on the road itself. I'm sure the commercial buildings will continue to change leading up to that.

[csmurphy8885]

out with the old

[Florida]

From reading the article, I got the since that I'm supossed to feel sorry for the businesses already in the Gaines Street area. Its kinda the same argument the County is trying to sell with not offering incentives for Turbocor, but instead using the money to boost local businesses. I like the idea of giving local businesses money, but some local businesses struggle for a reason ya know. I mean, if your food isn't good, I'm not coming to your restaurant! If your food is good, I'll cross town to go to your little hole in the wall (perfect example is the Kim's Place I love at the Junction of Old Bainbridge and Tharpe... best Seafood... selling out of a trailor. Or the Veggie Tofu Restaurant on Kleman Plaza... I'd love to see the gov't forward them some money to move into a permanent facility, but not some ragged business that doesn't respect the community or its staff.

How do you all feel about the incentives to lure developers along Gaines Street?

[csmurphy8885]

I think we should expect developers to bring us gifts to attract us to thier development. You know. We are a prime little hot spot. Pay us. I would rather offer incintives for developers to include things like parks and trees. or public restrooms and fountains. Be stingy with it, like momma says.

[Florida]

I totally feel ya.... however I don't think we're hot enough to expect them to give to us. I think we're hot because we are giving. And at this point its paying off for us. I think for us to become HOT enough to the point where developers want to give to us, we're going to have to lure more money into these homes, or some more attractions, be it the Cascades Trail, the Downtown Shopping, Performing Arts, Rejuvinated Civic Center, Convetions and such. Once the key pieces are in place, and the land becomes truly scarce and the market stronger, they'll start to offer us more. But I think we should continue in offering incentives. All of the money we give away comes right back once these pieces of public property become private and they are paying property taxes.

[csmurphy8885]

ah shucks with the reality of business and realestate!

[Florida]

I just think its weird how things have to become popular nationwide before we catch on. I wish for once we can do something first and reep the benifits from it such as doing it at a lower cost or exporting goods and services for more and better jobs here in town.

I love the fact that work is underway on Gaines right now, I just wish the gov't would hurry and finish some of these projects sooner (in terms of the road improvements, and cascades trail) so the construction cost don't go through the roof and we aren't stuck paying higher taxes for decades.

[EbonyGardens]

You know just as well as I do that city officials like to take their sweet time. So many projects have begun in Tallahassee that are either on hold, or have been put on the backburner because other projects take precedence, or so they say. On the issue of Turbocor, part of me wanted them to come here but another side of me felt it would do more harm than good to taxpayers. P.S: Olean's puts McDonalds to shame with their breakfast: Toast, grits and eggs for $2.68, can't beat that (Adams St. across from FAMU, going towards downtown)

[Florida]

About Olean's... I've heard good things, very good things about them. But I've yet to find a chance to get over there for a meal.

The Turbocor is a Win-Win in my eyes. Our people find work, our community has an opportunity to establish itself with some diverse industry to export, and lead the way to lessing our dependence on oil, AND if things don't workout.... we needed the spec building anyway.

[Florida]

Gaines Street Project

The project begain in the Fall of 1993, when FDOT officials sought to improve east/west travel on this state road. The corridor was a prime area for improvement because of its location. Gaines Street is considered the gatewat to the City and the State Capitol Complex. It connects Florida A&M University and Florida State University. The street offers access to downtown, which is the core of the City due to its many state and local government facilities and office buildings.

The initial design suggested by FDOT would turn the road into a six lane, high speed thoroughfare. Many people involved felt the solution presented by FDOT was "to move the automobile and no a solution for pedestrians, the universities, businesses, and the community." Many were not in support of the initial plan because they did not support the high speeds that would come about as a result, and they were also concerned FDOTs plans didn't take into consideration future land use and economic development issues.

FDOT joined with the local officials to develop an alternative solution that would enhance the effectiveness of the existing four lanes, provide for the future capacity through an expanded grid, provide safe travel for pedestrians and bicyclists, promote economic development, and connect the two major universities as well as the state capitol.

Nature trails and parks will be provided throughout the corridor, offering opportunities for relaxation and recreation Tallahassee-style.

Transportation ehnacements, such as sidewalks, bike lanes, traffic circles, and other pedestrian scale improvements are part of this vision.

The project has tremendous impace on FSU, and FAMU. The Gaines Street corridor will provide student housing facilities and entertainment and create and attractive entrance to both campuses from Gaines Street and Railroad Ave.

The project is expected to cost $57 Million and is being funded with a local sales tax option.

Any thoughts on what this district may become?

Coby Guy has raised some interesting concerns so I felt the need to resurrect this Gaines Street thread and seek some clarification on the plan. As far as I know, the plan remains as seen above... I've not recieved any updates or information on changes planned for the corridor. That said, please take a moment and look with me at the pictures above of people on their bikes, on skates, and the off street parking... I see a pedestrian friendly BLVD whose intent is to slow cars down and put the bikers, walkers, skaters, strollers first. That's the whole reason we've done this Gaines Street Process to begin with... so we can slow cars down and redevelop this corridor.

Where does the claim that the city wants to do differently come from?

[stjoe]

Thanks for posting this TJ.

I will be stunned if Gaines Street winds up 1/10 as nice as what was planned for. I don't have confidence in the city. Heres to hoping someday I am prove wrong....but I did laugh reading this...

"The project begain in the Fall of 1993, when FDOT officials sought to improve east/west travel on this state road. The corridor was a prime area for improvement because of its location. Gaines Street is considered the gatewat to the City and the State Capitol Complex. It connects Florida A&M University and Florida State University. The street offers access to downtown, which is the core of the City due to its many state and local government facilities and office buildings. "

Since 1993 and all we have is a cheap hotel to show for it? This city is LOST with trying to make Gaines Street impressive at all. I just have this vibe that millions and millions will be spent and Tally will get let more than what you see every other block at most average to large cities...let alone a "destination" area.

[gibson]

Thanks for posting this TJ.

I will be stunned if Gaines Street winds up 1/10 as nice as what was planned for. I don't have confidence in the city. Heres to hoping someday I am prove wrong....but I did laugh reading this...

"The project begain in the Fall of 1993, when FDOT officials sought to improve east/west travel on this state road. The corridor was a prime area for improvement because of its location. Gaines Street is considered the gatewat to the City and the State Capitol Complex. It connects Florida A&M University and Florida State University. The street offers access to downtown, which is the core of the City due to its many state and local government facilities and office buildings. "

Since 1993 and all we have is a cheap hotel to show for it? This city is LOST with trying to make Gaines Street impressive at all. I just have this vibe that millions and millions will be spent and Tally will get let more than what you see every other block at most average to large cities...let alone a "destination" area.

i hope not.....the enthusiasm lies in the plan, not some marriot built for the interstate. cobyguy is your group putting pressure on the city?

g

[cobyguy]

I agree... the Hotel is a good use of the land and the design is appropriate for the Gaines Street goals.

The look of it is what makes me think it would be more suitable to have the palms ya know.

The hotel is a cookie cutter plan seen all over I-75. They could have designed the exterior to be more "Tallahassee " in vernacular. The cost would have been the same. And Palm Trees? WTF?

Yes Gaines needs the business and the development!!!!!

Every project I have submitted for permitting has gone before the "All Saints architectural rewiew board" that was set up by planning dept. to oversee the designs being submitted for permitting along the Gaines Street Corridore. I wonder where this committee was when this hotel was submitted. I was raked over the proverbial coals with my projects! I think they are solid designs. People tell me this all the time.

I just want Tallahasse to look uniquely Tallahassee. That does not mean little clapboard pastle houses. Some of those yes. And glass and steel ones too- But certainly not tropical deco from south florida!!!! spanish colonial, french colonial style uses stucco- thats ok cause we have a long history of these two vernacular styles- that marriot was a cop-out!! and a sell out!!!! (insult intended to all parties)....plain and simple, It should have had archades or awnings along that southern exposure along gaines to shade pedestrians- oh maybe they don't want pedestrians cause traffic will be moving too fast for pedestrians to feel safe once gaines becomes one-way. (is that a metaphor?) - and maybe they don't want street side cafes either.... now i'm venting..... breath----1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10.

If they had hired an architect who knows anything about New Urbanism..... I'd have consulted with them for free!!!

[stjoe]

cobguy,

Well said. My thoughts EXACTLY.

What makes this all the more concerning is this was THE lot, the cornerstone of this project, and they just whiffed on it. It does NOT set the tone very well at ALL for this project.

Damn shame. Please COT prove me wrong...but right now, we are getting what I have become too used to with the city. Spending a TON of time and money with average results in the best case scenerio. Like "University Park", this might be another opportunity wasted...along with limited resources.

[gibson]

The hotel is a cookie cutter plan seen all over I-75. They could have designed the exterior to be more "Tallahassee " in vernacular. The cost would have been the same. And Palm Trees? WTF?

Yes Gaines needs the business and the development!!!!!

Every project I have submitted for permitting has gone before the "All Saints architectural rewiew board" that was set up by planning dept. to oversee the designs being submitted for permitting along the Gaines Street Corridore. I wonder where this committee was when this hotel was submitted. I was raked over the proverbial coals with my projects! I think they are solid designs. People tell me this all the time.

I just want Tallahasse to look uniquely Tallahassee. That does not mean little clapboard pastle houses. Some of those yes. And glass and steel ones too- But certainly not tropical deco from south florida!!!! spanish colonial, french colonial style uses stucco- thats ok cause we have a long history of these two vernacular styles- that marriot was a cop-out!! and a sell out!!!! (insult intended to all parties)....plain and simple, It should have had archades or awnings along that southern exposure along gaines to shade pedestrians- oh maybe they don't want pedestrians cause traffic will be moving too fast for pedestrians to feel safe once gaines becomes one-way. (is that a metaphor?) - and maybe they don't want street side cafes either.... now i'm venting..... breath----1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10.

If they had hired an architect who knows anything about New Urbanism..... I'd have consulted with them for free!!!

i think it is a big whiff as well....lets hold the city over the coals......i would rather see the city take their time and do it right, than jump at something "corporate" in style just to get a project started! lame in my opinion, stick to the plans city of tallahassee.

[DaiDreamer5]

The hotel is a cookie cutter plan seen all over I-75. They could have designed the exterior to be more "Tallahassee " in vernacular. The cost would have been the same. And Palm Trees? WTF?

Yes Gaines needs the business and the development!!!!!

Every project I have submitted for permitting has gone before the "All Saints architectural rewiew board" that was set up by planning dept. to oversee the designs being submitted for permitting along the Gaines Street Corridore. I wonder where this committee was when this hotel was submitted. I was raked over the proverbial coals with my projects! I think they are solid designs. People tell me this all the time.

I just want Tallahasse to look uniquely Tallahassee. That does not mean little clapboard pastle houses. Some of those yes. And glass and steel ones too- But certainly not tropical deco from south florida!!!! spanish colonial, french colonial style uses stucco- thats ok cause we have a long history of these two vernacular styles- that marriot was a cop-out!! and a sell out!!!! (insult intended to all parties)....plain and simple, It should have had archades or awnings along that southern exposure along gaines to shade pedestrians- oh maybe they don't want pedestrians cause traffic will be moving too fast for pedestrians to feel safe once gaines becomes one-way. (is that a metaphor?) - and maybe they don't want street side cafes either.... now i'm venting..... breath----1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10.

If they had hired an architect who knows anything about New Urbanism..... I'd have consulted with them for free!!!

I think you should post more like this. It makes you should less like you are trying to sell us something and more like a person. From what I have seen of your work, I think you are doing the community some good. I personally don't think you need to convince us of this.

I hope I didn't offend...

[poonther]

I think you should post more like this. It makes you should less like you are trying to sell us something and more like a person. From what I have seen of your work, I think you are doing the community some good. I personally don't think you need to convince us of this.

I hope I didn't offend...

I agree w/this statement of yours DaiDreamer5 100%!!!!!!!!

And while cobyguy does make some valid and good points in his rant, the hotel does not look like a budget motel that lines interstates and freeways throughout this country. That statement is a little high on drama, it does however look like tons of urban set hotels throughout the country. I just wish all the tacky motels on freeways looked like this one!

I like the palms, yeah there are palms there and they could be mixed w/a few oaks for a real North FL feel. I've got sabals in my yard that I did not plant they grow here naturally. Again stop saying that you guys don't want South FL style architect, no one has ever said that is what they want and this hotel doesn't even come close to looking South FL. If we are going to keep falling back on what was built here historically, then all our dwellings should be those Apalachee Indian chickee type huts and teepees.

Bottom line for me is that this thing is actually being built. The way this community agrues and argues and studies the heck of things, I'm just glad in my lifetime that at least one thing was built on Gaines. Is it exactly what I wanted, NO....but it's a start and hopefully the projects that follow will be better.

Now if you really want to talk about blight on this city, let's examine our current signage and the code that enforces it. Build all the beautiful office and commercial structures you want, but when you place big ole tacky large signs out in front of them, the whole project gets ruined.

[cobyguy]

I agree w/this statement of yours DaiDreamer5 100%!!!!!!!!

oops

[cobyguy]

MR POONTHER- we need to get together and talk....the only thing I'm selling is a community created by the people with lots of hard work and time...which I am ony a VERY small part of .... I am proad of that and passionate about it....I want evryone to be just as passionate too...About our community...I could really give a tinkers dam about your personal opinions of me...be please be thoughtful of Tallahassee.

I would much rather engage you in person regarding the future of Tallahasse than to keep dissecting every comment on this message board... you have many, many many, valid points!!!! Albiet our personal point of reference is different- e.i...our pallette from which we paint our world is different.

Help me to encourage thoughtful well designed architecture and planning. And we will all be happier for it... please don't every feel compelled to agree with me. I enjoy the discource. But look at the big picture... No insult intended and with the utmost respect for you and your life's experiences... I pledge to help you with your concerns for our fair city.

I don't care who rants about the city- thats called discource, And I don't care what color its painted- I really don't care if crepe mytles are planted which are indigenous to SE Asia- not SE United states- I DO care about thoughtful architecture that plans for things like what direction the building faces on hot sunny days etc... I want buildings that incorparate elements from the local environment (Frank Loyde Wright understood this.) What wrong with paying homage to a cheekee its better than S. Fl. Deco. (Teepees are from the Plains Peoples not indigenious to the SE U.S. ....Unless you are driving along I-75 around Kissimee)

..... Just design it well with regards to urban design priciples that have existed since we came out of caves and chose to live in cities. These are NOT my ideas- I'm only parrotting the ideas of really smart people who I read about.... Some of them live right here in TLH... Olive branch extended...with graciousness....etc..etc.... (cant wait for this reply)

[poonther]

C-guy I'm confused by your post, but maybe that's b/c it's late. I did not say you were trying to sell us something, I just merely agreed. But I was also agreeing that your post in which DaiDreamer5 made reference to was actually a pretty good post and you seemed much more humble. I believe that's what she (it is she isn't DaiDreamer5?) was trying to say also.

Why in the world do you think I am not being thoughtful of Tally? I've always been OK w/the Res. Inn on Gaines (mainly b/c something is finally happening there, not b/c I love the design), way before you or I started posting here, so I'm not saying I like it just b/c you don't. You say you are cool w/us not always agreeing on topics and that's exactly what I was doing. I truly don't think this hotel looks like a freeway budget motel.

Again I'm just a little confused as to exactly what you are saying to me and exactly what you want from me. The main reason I come to this board is to learn and I do every time I come here. I've learned quite a few things from you too. I have very different opinions and ideas from a lot of people here on this board and that is part of what makes it fasinating to me and keeps me coming back. I'd find it totally boring if we all just agreed. Sorry if you think I was nitpicking you, I'm just a detailed oriented person who notices the little things. So I'm not sure why you are offering me an olive branch or feel the need to, but if you put it out there I'll take it. Thanks.

The only favor I'd ask of you would be to please never ever ever put my name in a post that also approves of CRAPPY MYRTLES! Man I loathe those things.

[cobyguy]

C-guy I'm confused by your post, but maybe that's b/c it's late. I did not say you were trying to sell us something, I just merely agreed. But I was also agreeing that your post in which DaiDreamer5 made reference to was actually a pretty good post and you seemed much more humble. I believe that's what she (it is she isn't DaiDreamer5?) was trying to say also.

I just don't want to get personal....I know the lines blur sometimes...But I will make a conscious effort of my end.

The design of Marriot is flawed because...

1. It is uninviting to pedestrians because there is no shaded outdoor space on either Gaines or RRd Ave that allows for a commfortable walk along either street.

2. The exterior treatment does not have a frame of refernce regarding the architects selection of color palette, finishes, landscaping etc...

3. That setback at the corner would have been a grand main entrance for cars and guests on foot. The place would look alive to anyone driving down either street...

4. The planters with palmtrees could have had more thought put into them- I know its just a rendering and I hope the final choice of material will include some annuals, and perinials for variety- propably will.

5. The design does not reference any historic period from the area- thats fine.. but once you move away from a point of reference- the burden is placed on the architect to set a new standard- to break the mold with something powerful and evocative- they did not. This building is post modern (tranlation-mediocer) in its design and tropical deco in its treatment- Tallahassee is not tropical- we're temperate. Our architecture and lanscaping should also suggest seasonality.

6. If the first building is so ho-hum then I fear this standard for everything else....I am still hopeful for the next building though....

[DaiDreamer5]

I am a she.

[poonther]

First things first....glad to have an F here DaiDreamer5 there are so few of you in our Tally section!

C-Guy not that I'm the official judge of things like this around here, but your last post was your best ever. Good job man. Now for the discussion:

My points line up w/yours.

1. More shade and outdoor awnings etc could be added to the project couldn't they after it's finished? Especially if the tenants of the retail spots demand it?

2. True

3. While I think this a grand idea, this is only a Res. Inn. It's not a luxury hotel. That type of entrance is only used on Hiltons etc and hopefully will be used on the Civic Center Marriott when that is built in 2050. Once they announced it was to be a Res. Inn, I knew the design was going to be simple. I've never seen a grand entrance on a Res. Inn. the hotel doesn't really work like that. It's more long term apt type stays as I'm sure you know. Of course now someone will dig up a pic of some obsure Res. Inn w/a grand entrance and prove me wrong.

4. You know as well as I do that landscaping seems to always change from the renderings. I am and have always been doubtful they will end up being palms. Of course I am hoping they are. Nice Sabals, Mex. Fans, or even an odd cluster of Windmills would look great IMO.

5. This is the point I disagree w/most. That type of thinking is a little too provincial for me. "It's always been this way so we got to do it that way" type of attitude doesn't get it w/me. I'm of the mindset that Tally is the State Capital and it's cool if some of our bldg. design represent architecture from all over ther state. Having the same everywhere would make us look "too Disney." IMO. I agree that it's post-modern, but I don't see how you come up w/it being art deco. I can sorta kinda if I squit my eyes maybe see that, but art deco just doesn't come to mind w/this bldg. Maybe I spent too much time in South FL where eye popping art deco is to see it in this bldg. We are barely in the temperate zone....we are almost tropical....so a little blurring of the lines is cool w/me. Nothing I hate more than deciduous trees and their ugly falling leaving. Sycamores are the worst! Big ugly leaves and bark..ugh.

6. Good to see you optimistic! I'm that way too in the fact that finally at least something is being done.

Now see wasn't that fun????