Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[CLT2014]

1 hour ago, uptownliving said:

The Terminal Renovation keeps on getting pushed back and pushed back. The website now says construction will start this summer. I have a feeling this is a project they thought would be rather simple and has turned into a logistical nightmare.

It definitely is going to be a nightmare. The number of people American Airlines is pushing through those concourses and the tight connection times they are offering at the airport makes it hard to imagine how they can shut down entire gates / parts of concourses without dramatically impacting business. My guess is American Airlines as the main tenant has been hesitant to re-bank their schedules in order to accommodate a renovation. For example, if 8 gates are closed, they will need to re-bank and re-time their current scheduling to make use of a smaller amount of gates and maintain their current daily flight count - I would guess they are dragging their feet. 

An example of the challenge of renovating a constrained airport is LAX. When United was renovating their gates they would move temporary chairs into the construction zone gates for the daytime so the gate could be used. They would then remove the chairs after 11PM, set up their equipment all over again, and deboard you into an emergency exit for any flight arriving after midnight. When we arrived at 1AM once, an employee escorted us through an emergency exit and made us do a u-turn. You could see them ripping up floor materials and lighting. Then we went outside, back inside, across the United Club (it had closed for the night), down a set of stairs, and out another fire door into the terminal in order to get everybody around the construction that occurred at night. 

CLT will likely have to do something like this and do the majority of the work at night because I don't think they can lose too many gates to a complete closure.

Edited February 23, 2017 by CLT2014

[cjd5050]

20 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

It definitely is going to be a nightmare. The number of people American Airlines is pushing through those concourses and the tight connection times they are offering at the airport makes it hard to imagine how they can shut down entire gates / parts of concourses without dramatically impacting business. My guess is American Airlines as the main tenant has been hesitant to re-bank their schedules in order to accommodate a renovation. For example, if 8 gates are closed, they will need to re-bank and re-time their current scheduling to make use of a smaller amount of gates and maintain their current daily flight count - I would guess they are dragging their feet. 

An example of the challenge of renovating a constrained airport is LAX. When United was renovating their gates they would move temporary chairs into the construction zone gates for the daytime so the gate could be used. They would then remove the chairs after 11PM, set up their equipment all over again, and deboard you into an emergency exit for any flight arriving after midnight. When we arrived at 1AM once, an employee escorted us through an emergency exit and made us do a u-turn. You could see them ripping up floor materials and lighting. Then we went outside, back inside, across the United Club (it had closed for the night), down a set of stairs, and out another fire door into the terminal in order to get everybody around the construction that occurred at night. 

CLT will likely have to do something like this and do the majority of the work at night because I don't think they can lose to many gates to a complete closure.

Thanks for the info.  Was wondering why the Terminal 2 expansion for San Diego went so much smoother but now realize that Terminal 2 is not home to Southwest, which is the primary for SAN and SAN is not a hub.  

[kickazzz2000]

Would be nice if they could wait until A North is done, squeeze everybody in A up there and let AA use A as an overflow.  Unfortunately, CLT doesnt utilize common use gates so this would be basically impossible.

[LKN704]

I hadn't realized that for the first time in 10 years, CLT is no longer one of the top 30 busiest airports by passenger traffic.

International airports, especially in the Middle East and China, are growing at a record pace.

[ssh214]

9 hours ago, LKN704 said:

I hadn't realized that for the first time in 10 years, CLT is no longer one of the top 30 busiest airports by passenger traffic.

International airports, especially in the Middle East and China, are growing at a record pace.

In the United States both Seattle and Miami surpassed Charlotte too... Charlotte lost about 1% of total passengers compared to 2015. The last time Charlotte gained significant growth was from 2012 to 2013 at over 5%. Charlotte and Phoenix were the only two of the AA hubs in the top 50 worldwide airports to lose overall passengers from the year before (Philadelphia and Washington National are the two hubs not in the top 50).

[HopHead]

6 minutes ago, saamh said:

In the United States both Seattle and Miami surpassed Charlotte too... Charlotte lost about 1% of total passengers compared to 2015. The last time Charlotte gained significant growth was from 2012 to 2013 at over 5%. Charlotte and Phoenix were the only two of the AA hubs in the top 50 worldwide airports to lose overall passengers from the year before (Philadelphia and Washington National are the two hubs not in the top 50).

Seattle is in super growth mode in so many different areas right now (population, jobs, construction, etc). So that isn't surprising. They also surpassed Houston and is now the 9th busiest airport nationally. I'm a little surprised that Philadelphia isn't a top 50 world wide airport... Perhaps in part that Baltimore, Reagan and Dulles are all nearby. 

[CLT2014]

32 minutes ago, saamh said:

In the United States both Seattle and Miami surpassed Charlotte too... Charlotte lost about 1% of total passengers compared to 2015. The last time Charlotte gained significant growth was from 2012 to 2013 at over 5%. Charlotte and Phoenix were the only two of the AA hubs in the top 50 worldwide airports to lose overall passengers from the year before (Philadelphia and Washington National are the two hubs not in the top 50).

CLT’s growth is directly tied to if American Airlines is growing (it isn't). We are the American hub most dominated by American. Our 1% decline in passenger volume perfectly matches the American Airlines system wide load factor decline of 1% in 2016. So AA had the same number of flights at CLT in 2016, but carried less people on their planes so traffic declined.

At some of AA’s other hubs, they aren’t as dominate and additions by other airlines made up for American’s stagnation. At MIA for example, several international airlines have added service in 2016 that make up for stagnation by AA. If those airlines hadn’t added service, MIA would have declined too due to AA cuts. ORD is experiencing growth mainly from United who is converting their regional aircraft to bigger airplanes as they get deliveries. DFW is stagnant as well due to domination by AA, who isn’t growing.

AA Dominated airports:

PHL declined -3.4%
PHX declined -1.4%
MIA only grew 0.32%
DFW  only grew 0.20%

At the other AA hubs, AA is not the dominant carrier. At ORD they split share with United, they don’t even have 25% of LAX market share, they are 3^rd at JFK, etc… so those airports aren’t reliant on AA for growth.

[CLT2014]

33 minutes ago, HopHead said:

Seattle is in super growth mode in so many different areas right now (population, jobs, construction, etc). So that isn't surprising. They also surpassed Houston and is now the 9th busiest airport nationally. I'm a little surprised that Philadelphia isn't a top 50 world wide airport... Perhaps in part that Baltimore, Reagan and Dulles are all nearby. 

Delta has chosen SEA as their main gateway to Asia and the location is actually better for connections than LAX. SEA is 1 hour closer to Beijing for example than Los Angeles. Delta is adding TONS of domestic service as they build up their trans-Pacific hub and they now offer international service to Amsterdam, Beijing, Paris, Seoul, Shanghai, and Tokyo. With those big international flights have been additional domestic flights to fuel connecting activity to fill these planes (Seattle isn't big enough to fill them on their own, but the Delta frequent flier network nationwide is via one-stop connections). 

Since 2012 Delta has taken Seattle from an outstation with less than 40 flights per day to a mid-size hub with 160 flights per day. That's on top of the large hub that Alaska Airlines was operating with 278 flights per day, but Delta found room to compete by operating an international hub to Asia rather than a domestic hub.

Edited March 1, 2017 by CLT2014

[HopHead]

Saw this on the CLT Airport Twitter feed. Couldn't stop laughing... Loved Hacksaw when I was a kid.

[hinsp0]

^^^ best post ever on the airport thread.  HOOOOOOO

[caterpillar2]

I don't want to take anything away from what is being discussed, but I just got back from Boston this morning. I was impressed with the security in Charlotte. I did the usual take the shoes off, take metal out pockets, i.e., coins, take my computer out of the case, etc, and I was still caught with two pieces of small, wadded paper in my pocket from a piece of candy I had eaten before. They were through.

On the other hand, it was scary in Boston. I didn't have to take my shoes off, I didn't have to show what was in my computer case, I didn't have to put metal in a bowl as usual, and I wasn't even X-rayed. It was so lax, it was frightening. I went through the Jet Blue line and it wasn't terribly busy either. I was a bit concerned flying back to Charlotte. Bottom line, hats off to the good security at CLT. Oh yea, I believe that I got the last parking space in long term parking (lot one). All the others were either full closed. 

[deleted]

1 hour ago, caterpillar2 said:

I don't want to take anything away from what is being discussed, but I just got back from Boston this morning. I was impressed with the security in Charlotte. I did the usual take the shoes off, take metal out pockets, i.e., coins, take my computer out of the case, etc, and I was still caught with two pieces of small, wadded paper in my pocket from a piece of candy I had eaten before. They were through.

On the other hand, it was scary in Boston. I didn't have to take my shoes off, I didn't have to show what was in my computer case, I didn't have to put metal in a bowl as usual, and I wasn't even X-rayed. It was so lax, it was frightening. I went through the Jet Blue line and it wasn't terribly busy either. I was a bit concerned flying back to Charlotte. Bottom line, hats off to the good security at CLT. Oh yea, I believe that I got the last parking space in long term parking (lot one). All the others were either full closed. 

When I fly JetBlue out of CLT to NYC (it's been a little while), the security is roughly as described above for Boston.  They definitely had a different procedure.  I rather enjoyed it but agree it was less scrutiny of passengers.  

[CLT704]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/article136983418.html 

Terri Pope is retiring, it is a shame to see her go. It will be interesting to see how her replacement- Dec Lee- will continue to build up Charlotte. In a statement, Robert Isom said that CLT is "one of our largest and top-performing operations.”

[HopHead]

Not CLT specific, but RDU is getting a Virgin America nonstop to San Francisco later this year. Really wish American would get some competition here on the long haul flights. I know Delta has the CLT to Salt Lake City nonstop flight here, but I think that's the furthest west we have for non-American Air routes?

https://thepointsguy.com/2017/03/alaska-virgin-routes-from-bay-area/

[CLT2014]

43 minutes ago, HopHead said:

Not CLT specific, but RDU is getting a Virgin America nonstop to San Francisco later this year. Really wish American would get some competition here on the long haul flights. I know Delta has the CLT to Salt Lake City nonstop flight here, but I think that's the furthest west we have for non-American Air routes?

https://thepointsguy.com/2017/03/alaska-virgin-routes-from-bay-area/

Alaska Airlines might want to consider a fare sale if they want people to try them out rather than United on that route. Their one flight per day between RDU and SFO is currently showing as $427 - $1,327 round trip in economy depending on the dates after the service begins Oct 29. By comparison, American is $411 - $690 for the same period CLT - SFO.

Edited March 9, 2017 by CLT2014

[HopHead]

We also have the one nonstop San Jose, CA route on AA as well (can't remember if that's seasonal or year round). I get it. We're a hub and we've beaten this to death over time. Our main carrier is going to cover all the time slots for a given route. Just wish they could add incentives to lure someone else like RDU does with lots of their routes. But that wouldn't sit well with American. Just would benefit those that don't frequently travel or would prefer the Virgin America (or other) experience. I have looked on routes that RDU and CLT share in the past, and they are actually usually pretty close in price. I've seen their SFO flight actually be a few hundred dollars more in some cases. Virgin (Alaska) could do well on that right if they offer some specials for a while. 

[LKN704]

In addition to the previously announced service to Bangor and Georgetown, AA is also adding service to Rapid City, SD for the summer.

AA is adding an (long overdue) additional flight on CLT-PDX this summer, for 2x A321 daily.

I know the CLT cheerleaders will kill me for saying this, but having flown both LH CLT-MUC-CLT and AA CLT-LHR-CLT within the past three weeks, our FIS area (especially the baggage claim area) is a dump. Gray walls, no natural light, ultra-bright lighting. Ick. The FIS agents were surprisingly pleasant though, with an agent who kept calling me "brother" when I landed in from LHR on Thursday.

I took the opportunity to talk to the cabin crew on the nearly empty LH CLT-MUC flight, who said they loved coming to CLT because it has great shopping, and they love the Epicentre.

On routes at CLT, I'm personally shocked that UA hasn't started CLT-SFO yet, considering they have almost every medium sized city on the East coast covered with SFO service (even BDL...).

Edited March 13, 2017 by LKN704

[CLTaviation13]

CLT-TUL/OKC/SMF also recieved an additional flight this summer!

Edited March 13, 2017 by JetBlueCLT

[kickazzz2000]

On 3/12/2017 at 8:28 PM, LKN704 said:

 

I took the opportunity to talk to the cabin crew on the nearly empty LH CLT-MUC flight, who said they loved coming to CLT because it has great shopping, and they love the Epicentre.

 

thats a bit concerning...

[deleted]

1 hour ago, kickazzz2000 said:

thats a bit concerning...

Which part, the nearly empty cabin or that they love the Epicentre?

[LKN704]

Yes, very concerning that beautiful, young Germans love to hit up American style honky-tonks

Anyway, yes the flight was very, very empty in back. I was seated in the second zone of economy. The seating configuration of the plane is 2x4x2. Most of the seats in the group of four seats were unoccupied, and people eventually moved to them during the flight to sleep. The first zone of economy was lightly filled as well. Almost everyone in Economy got an open seat next to them. Premium Economy and Business class appeared to be full. LH no longer offers a First class service on the route.

Remember you can't base a flight's profitability simply on the basis of a load factor. Yield and cargo certainly can make or break the flight. I've heard rumors that because of the corporate connections on the CLT-MUC run, it's Business class that makes/breaks the flight. Economy is just gravy.

When I checked in, the lovely LH customer service rep confirmed the light load, and even said that the light load "was unusual". Whether she was just telling me what she wants or was truly factual, I dunno. You can't look at the seat map at Lufthansa.com either, as the seat map online showed my flight as full, even though it wasn't.

On a different note, the vast majority of the passengers onboard were foreign. There seemed to be a lot of people connecting to Tel Aviv, Delhi, and Moscow. We were delayed 2.5 hours leaving Charlotte because of thunderstorms, and I ended up letting some French woman use my phone to call her US contact, as I was one of the only passengers in my section fluent in English!

Anway, the flight was absolutely fabulous. 100x better than any AA/US transatlantic flight I have taken. The crew were polite and hospitable. The seat was amazingly comfortable, even for Y. A real pillow with a pillowcase, and a real cotton blanket (rather than the pantyhose that AA provides) were provided. An after-dinner cognac service was provided, which I enjoyed. The only thing missing was an amenity kit.

 

[CLT704]

I love Lufthansa- one of my favorite airlines to fly! Really miss the 346 coming in! I have heard from my AA flight attendant friends, albeit galley gossip so not that reliable, that if Lufthansa pulls the plug on CLT-MUC, AA is willing to jump on the route to serve demand from BMW in Upstate SC and others. Personally I don't think LH will cancel CLT, every time I fly from D concourse, when LH is ready to depart (which is maybe 2-4 times a month), the boarding area for the flight is always packed. 

[InSouthPark]

On 3/12/2017 at 8:28 PM, LKN704 said:

I took the opportunity to talk to the cabin crew on the nearly empty LH CLT-MUC flight, who said they loved coming to CLT because it has great shopping, and they love the Epicentre.

Really? I flew this route in February and it was completely full on a Friday.  It wasn't quite as full coming back from Munich on a Monday but not more than a dozen or so empty seats that I could see.

That said, Premium Economy on LH is fantastic. It is basically first class on a domestic flight with a slightly smaller seat.    

 

[caterpillar2]

20 hours ago, kickazzz2000 said:

thats a bit concerning...

Why do you find that concerning? My family and friends and family in Europe love coming here, going out and shopping, etc. To them, it is a bargain. Remember, Unfortunately for the, their currency isn't doing as well these days with buying power. 

[deleted]

^^

I'm sure he was referring to the half-empty cabin.  I made the bad joke about Epicentre...