Richmond International Airport

[wrldcoupe4]

Is this a thru flight to other cities?

[blopp1234]

5 minutes ago, eandslee said:

The flights to RDU don’t appear to be live yet on the Breeze Airways website though. 

My guess is it was misreported as Breeze doesn’t seem to show this route, even with the website updates that show all the other expanded flights. This route also wouldn’t make any sense for Breeze to fly as the cities are too close together to make anything other than connecting operations unprofitable, especially at 2x per week. This city pair would be much better served by rail.

 

Jacksonville is exciting to get back on the schedule as without direct service we had decent PAX numbers. Hopefully we start seeing some midwestern routes to places like Cincinnati, Columbus and Louisville soon!

[wrldcoupe4]

More detail here:

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article269699451.html

[eandslee]

10 minutes ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

More detail here:

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article269699451.html

Yep, it’s legit!  It is a weird city pair (RDU and RIC), but Breeze hasn’t been shy to try new, never-been-tried-before routes!  We shall see how this plays out. BTW, I don’t think Breeze is targeting business travelers with this route. It’s probably more for leisure travelers. 

[blopp1234]

https://www.rdu.com/breeze-airways-adds-two-more-destinations-at-rdu/
 

Official notice from RDU. RIC-RDU isn’t on there, or Breeze’s list of new routes announced today. False article.

[I miss RVA]

2 hours ago, eandslee said:

The flights to RDU don’t appear to be live yet on the Breeze Airways website though. 

WTVR updated the news story -- pulling it back. Apparently Breeze is NOT going to offer flights from RIC to RDU.

This was their 11:34 a.m. (EST) update:

LOCAL NEWS

Breeze Airways no longer adding flights from Richmond to Raleigh-Durham

 

Richmond top stories and weather December 7, 2022

 

By: WTVR CBS 6 Web Staff

Posted at 9:35 AM, Dec 07, 2022

 

and last updated 11:34 AM, Dec 07, 2022

RICHMOND, Va. — Breeze Airways announced Wednesday they were adding nonstop flights from Richmond International Airport to Raleigh-Durham — but then a few hours later said the new service is "not in the cards at this time."

They did not give a reason for the sudden change in plans or say when those flights to Raleigh-Durham could potentially be added.

Breeze is however still planning to bring back flights to Jacksonville in 2023.

Edited December 7, 2022 by I miss RVA

[I miss RVA]

8 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

WTVR updated the news story -- pulling it back. Apparently Breeze is NOT going to offer flights from RIC to RDU.

This was their 11:34 a.m. (EST) update:

LOCAL NEWS

Breeze Airways no longer adding flights from Richmond to Raleigh-Durham

 

Richmond top stories and weather December 7, 2022

 

By: WTVR CBS 6 Web Staff

Posted at 9:35 AM, Dec 07, 2022

 

and last updated 11:34 AM, Dec 07, 2022

RICHMOND, Va. — Breeze Airways announced Wednesday they were adding nonstop flights from Richmond International Airport to Raleigh-Durham — but then a few hours later said the new service is "not in the cards at this time."

They did not give a reason for the sudden change in plans or say when those flights to Raleigh-Durham could potentially be added.

Breeze is however still planning to bring back flights to Jacksonville in 2023.

 

FOLLOW-UP -- The Raleigh News & Observer issued a CORRECTION to their article - also detailing that Breeze is NOT flying between RIC and RDU.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article269699451.html

Edited December 7, 2022 by I miss RVA

[eandslee]

Well, what a big mess this was!  Geez Breeze!  I thought the RDU/RIC City pair was weird anyway.  This makes more sense and is more logical. Thanks for hunting the truth down everyone!

[I miss RVA]

8 minutes ago, eandslee said:

Well, what a big mess this was!  Geez Breeze!  I thought the RDU/RIC City pair was weird anyway.  This makes more sense and is more logical.

Thanks for hunting the truth down everyone!

1.) - Agreed. Big GFE (gross factual error) that got out there. A shame that happened - but maybe the upside to it is that RIC/RVA is definitely on Breeze's mind. And THAT is a good thing!

2.) - Once a journalist, always a journalist, my friend.   I still recall my first (and finest)  journalism professor my freshman year in undergrad saying - "If your mother says she loves you, check it out!"

[eandslee]

Here is a Henrico Citizen article that talks about the county’s desire to improve the Williamsburg Road area around the airport and how they plan to do it.  Additionally, it talks about the planned improvements to the entrance to RIC:

https://www.henricocitizen.com/articles/henrico-airport-officials-seek-enhancements-to-williamsburg-road-corridor/

[Niccckk]

17 hours ago, eandslee said:

Well, what a big mess this was!  Geez Breeze!  I thought the RDU/RIC City pair was weird anyway.  This makes more sense and is more logical. Thanks for hunting the truth down everyone!

I thought it was weird as well, already served by rail and greyhound... and I-85.... dunno why people would fly haha.

[Shakman]

Perhaps next month Breeze announces service between DCA and IAD.

 

Really excited Williamsburg Road streetscape is getting attention.  It has been needed for as long as I can remember.  When first time visitors come to our area, the current impression is embarrassing.

Edited December 8, 2022 by Shakman

[123fakestreet]

4 hours ago, Shakman said:

Perhaps next month Breeze announces service between DCA and IAD.

 

with NOVA traffic that might be a good idea

[I miss RVA]

4 hours ago, Shakman said:

Perhaps next month Breeze announces service between DCA and IAD.

 

Really excited Williamsburg Road streetscape is getting attention.  It has been needed for as long as I can remember.  When first time visitors come to our area, the current impression is embarrassing.

 !!!  A significant upgrade to Williamsburg Road is LONG overdue. I agree with you - and I hate to say that I've felt exactly the same way about the impression of that area near the airport - but it is downright embarrassing for a supposedly up-and-coming city/metro to have such a backwater look next to the airport. For decades - NOT an example of the RVA putting the best foot forward at all - so I'm absolutely thrilled to see upgrades coming to this part of the metro.

[Niccckk]

20 hours ago, Shakman said:

erhaps next month Breeze announces service between DCA and IAD.

Honestly I think flights to destinations 2-3 hours away is such a waste... there is so many better ways to get there. TBH it'd still take more time to fly there then drive since ya gotta park, check bags, board, wait, then fly, then deboard, get bags... ya see? 

It would be faster, cheaper, and less stressful to just take the train up to D.C.

[eandslee]

27 minutes ago, Niccckk said:

Honestly I think flights to destinations 2-3 hours away is such a waste... there is so many better ways to get there. TBH it'd still take more time to fly there then drive since ya gotta park, check bags, board, wait, then fly, then deboard, get bags... ya see? 

It would be faster, cheaper, and less stressful to just take the train up to D.C.

Oh, that’s just Shakman being…well, Shakman!  LOL!  He’s our comic relief on this board - he was being facetious.  We love him though!
 

I do agree with you though. However, sometimes it can take longer than 3 hours to get to Baltimore (for example).  I think SW flights to BWI would be beneficial. 

Edited December 9, 2022 by eandslee

[blopp1234]

1 hour ago, eandslee said:

Oh, that’s just Shakman being…well, Shakman!  LOL!  He’s our comic relief on this board - he was being facetious.  We love him though!
 

I do agree with you though. However, sometimes it can take longer than 3 hours to get to Baltimore (for example).  I think SW flights to BWI would be beneficial. 

I don’t necessarily know about BWI as being useful as Amtrak accomplishes the O & D traffic for this city pair better than any flight could. This means any flight to BWI would be entirely a feeder flight for Southwests network, something that could be accomplished by flying to a place such as Dallas Love, Houston Hobby, Denver or St Louis much more efficiently and profitably due to higher O&D traffic.
 

I think the cutoff for where flights can compete with cars and conventional rail service is around 300-400 miles, so I wouldn’t expect any flights being added unless it serves as a hub feeder flight. I’d much rather see an airline like southwest fly to St Louis, Kansas City or Nashville instead of BWI. Leave that corridor for Amtrak!

 

I would keep an eye out in the news in 2023 for AirCanada express returning as in an article describing their new routes to Sacramento and JFK, it mentioned that Air Canada would be looking to add and re add a bunch of new and previously cut US destinations. With RIC being one of the largest US markets with no service to Canada, I would expect we would be one of the first new destinations that is added.

[I miss RVA]

2 hours ago, blopp1234 said:

I’d much rather see an airline like southwest fly to St Louis, Kansas City or Nashville instead of BWI. 

 

I would keep an eye out in the news in 2023 for AirCanada express returning as in an article describing their new routes to Sacramento and JFK, it mentioned that Air Canada would be looking to add and re add a bunch of new and previously cut US destinations. With RIC being one of the largest US markets with no service to Canada, I would expect we would be one of the first new destinations that is added.

1.)   !!!  Most definitely would like to see STL KC and Nashville added to an expanding roster of direct-flight destinations from RIC. We're up to 33 destinations now, no? (yes, some are seasonal - but from the top down - we've grown from 18 to 33). Let's keep adding on to this list!

2. Air Canada jumping onboard and picking RIC as one of their first new added destinations:  from your keyboard to God's eyes, my friend!  

[upzoningisgood]

There is a RIC-Nashville flight through Allegiant. I take it frequently. It’s like $80.

[eandslee]

24 minutes ago, upzoningisgood said:

There is a RIC-Nashville flight through Allegiant. I take it frequently. It’s like $80.

Yeah, I think there needs to be a more frequent option for flights between BNA and RIC.  How are those flights...full?

[Niccckk]

On 12/9/2022 at 9:00 AM, blopp1234 said:

I would keep an eye out in the news in 2023 for AirCanada express returning as in an article describing their new routes to Sacramento and JFK, it mentioned that Air Canada would be looking to add and re add a bunch of new and previously cut US destinations. With RIC being one of the largest US markets with no service to Canada, I would expect we would be one of the first new destinations that is added.

I sure hope so! Plus that would attract other people from the coastal area since Norfolk has no Canadian flights, so I could definitely see flights to Canada out of RIC getting good PAX numbers

[I miss RVA]

So I had intended to mention something I saw in the Raleigh News & Observer story that sparked the speculation of an RIC-RDU direct route and I just forgot - and I wanted to mention it to inquire what RIC needs to do to get this level of service (not meaning "passenger" service - but attracting the number of airlines comparable to what RDU currently enjoys.

Okay - from the News & Observer articles:

"At 14, RDU has an unusual number of airlines vying for customers for an airport its size. But several of those carriers, including Alaska, Bahamasair, Icelandair and Sun Country, serve only one destination. The two busiest airlines, Delta and American, handle nearly 60% of passengers, with Southwest and United serving another 25%. Avelo, Bahamasair, Breeze and Icelandair all made their debuts at RDU this year. At the same time, low-cost carrier Allegiant quietly stopped flying from the Triangle this fall after seven years at RDU."

The long and the short of it is that RDU currently has 14 airlines serving the facility. How many do we have currently at RIC?

The question - how do we attract more airlines to RIC in the manner that RDU has snagged a rather impressive number of carriers serving them? I realize that the two "Captain Obvious" answers  are:

1.) Grow the RVA/RIC market size

2.) Grow the passenger count at RIC (KEEP THOSE PLANES FULL!!)

Those are the OBVIOUS answers. But I think there's more we can do. I know a lot comes down to pure dollars and cents based on market size. That's a given. But aside from that - the News & Observer story seems to indicate that the airport is punching way above its weight class. THAT said - what do we need to do to be competitive in this area? Aside from the obvious answers of difference in market size - is RIC at a natural disadvantage that RDU simply doesn't have to contend with, given that ORF, DCA and IAD are ALL within about a nine-iron's distance from the Richmond market and PHF is roughly a pitching-wedge away?

 

 

Edited December 12, 2022 by I miss RVA

[eandslee]

RIC is currently served by 9 airlines (when you consider the newest passenger service provided by Sun Country Airlines starting in May '23), which is a lot (I think) considering our metro area size....but the question you want answered is what do we need to do to be competitive and grow at RIC.  I can think of a few things:

1) There should be a focused effort on drawing more flyers to RIC.  I think the airport could advertise more not only in the Richmond Metro Area, but also in the surrounding areas (Fredericksburg, Charlottesville, Lynchburg, Farmville, Williamsburg,...even NOVA, etc.).  I think the airport needs to cast a wider net to gain the customers it is capable of grabbing.  Some folks in the outlying areas may not even consider RIC an option and automatically think that the NOVA airports are the only/best option.  Advertising certain airlines/service in the Norfolk area (not currently served by ORF) should also be done to cast the widest net for riders on certain routes.  Why isn't this being done now?  I don't know.  I rarely, if ever hear/watch/see any ads for RIC, anywhere.  There's probably no/little money to advertise, but I think that needs to change.  Okay...that's one thing I think will help.

2) I believe in the "if you build it, they will come" idea.  I realize it's a huge risk though and it's not my money that would be used to do this, so, in that regard, it's easy for me to say.  I think the airport needs to be WAY ahead of any need for certain facilities (i.e. additional gates, runways, a new terminal, etc.) with the idea that an airline will see the vacancy and want to fill it.  The downside to doing this is that an airline, if it wanted to significantly expand at RIC, would probably pay for the expansion themselves (which the airport wouldn't have to do or foot the bill for).  So, it's very risky to do and is probably cost-prohibitive, but in my little fantasy world, that would be the thing to do.

3) I think the airport does a great job serving it passengers, but there's always room for improvement.  So, the airport just needs to make sure it is always improving the passenger experience at the airport.  Examples would be:  Improving the storefront/restaurant offerings in the airport, improve security (which I think they are planning to do by moving all security to one place so that passengers can walk between Concourse A and B), keep making parking easy, push and advocate for mass transit options to the airport to improve accessibility (better than just a bus that takes 30+ minutes to get from downtown to the airport), keep improving the facilities to keep the place looking new and up-to-date with the latest technology for an improved passenger experience, improve the time it take to get checked baggage from the aircraft to the baggage claim (that's been terrible the last few times I flew in and out of RIC...that HAS to get better), etc.

Those are just a few ideas I had that popped up at the top of my head.  I'm sure there's more, but these would be a great start!

Edited December 12, 2022 by eandslee

[I miss RVA]

8 hours ago, eandslee said:

RIC is currently served by 9 airlines (when you consider the newest passenger service provided by Sun Country Airlines starting in May '23), which is a lot (I think) considering our metro area size....but the question you want answered is what do we need to do to be competitive and grow at RIC.  I can think of a few things:

1) There should be a focused effort on drawing more flyers to RIC.  I think the airport could advertise more not only in the Richmond Metro Area, but also in the surrounding areas (Fredericksburg, Charlottesville, Lynchburg, Farmville, Williamsburg,...even NOVA, etc.).  I think the airport needs to cast a wider net to gain the customers it is capable of grabbing.  Some folks in the outlying areas may not even consider RIC an option and automatically think that the NOVA airports are the only/best option.  Advertising certain airlines/service in the Norfolk area (not currently served by ORF) should also be done to cast the widest net for riders on certain routes.  Why isn't this being done now?  I don't know.  I rarely, if ever hear/watch/see any ads for RIC, anywhere.  There's probably no/little money to advertise, but I think that needs to change.  Okay...that's one thing I think will help.

2) I believe in the "if you build it, they will come" idea.  I realize it's a huge risk though and it's not my money that would be used to do this, so, in that regard, it's easy for me to say.  I think the airport needs to be WAY ahead of any need for certain facilities (i.e. additional gates, runways, a new terminal, etc.) with the idea that an airline will see the vacancy and want to fill it.  The downside to doing this is that an airline, if it wanted to significantly expand at RIC, would probably pay for the expansion themselves (which the airport wouldn't have to do or foot the bill for).  So, it's very risky to do and is probably cost-prohibitive, but in my little fantasy world, that would be the thing to do.

3) I think the airport does a great job serving it passengers, but there's always room for improvement.  So, the airport just needs to make sure it is always improving the passenger experience at the airport.  Examples would be:  Improving the storefront/restaurant offerings in the airport, improve security (which I think they are planning to do by moving all security to one place so that passengers can walk between Concourse A and B), keep making parking easy, push and advocate for mass transit options to the airport to improve accessibility (better than just a bus that takes 30+ minutes to get from downtown to the airport), keep improving the facilities to keep the place looking new and up-to-date with the latest technology for an improved passenger experience, improve the time it take to get checked baggage from the aircraft to the baggage claim (that's been terrible the last few times I flew in and out of RIC...that HAS to get better), etc.

Those are just a few ideas I had that popped up at the top of my head.  I'm sure there's more, but these would be a great start!

 on both points!!!

A few thoughts:

1.) MARKETING: I totally agree - there is no reason whatsoever that I can think of (aside from lack of funding -and even THAT can (and should) be addressed) that we aren't aggressively marketing the airport in out-of-market locales. How much does it cost to run targeted YouTube ads? Or to put up a few billboards? Or to run ads on public transit? We need to push RIC not merely as an "alternative" but rather as a "preference" - meaning - RIC is THE "GO-TO" airport. You wanna fly out of Virginia? FLY RIC!  (Mind you - getting airline fees/costs more in line with our competitors would go a LONG way to making any/all marketing stand up. My biggest concern is that the higher ticket costs for similar service to similar destinations that flyers pay at RIC vs other airports doesn't back up advertising -- we need meat on the bone - and that meat MUST come in the form of lower costs to travelers. Not sure AT ALL how we address this - because it's been one of the chief problems that RIC has faced for DECADES vis a vis other airports in Virginia.

2.) BUILD IT AND THEY WILL COME: Once again, we're in 100% lockstep agreement. I feel like I've been calling for an abandonment of traditional old-school Virginia "fiscal conservatism" when it comes to the airport since the time of Abraham -- and I'll keep calling for it until either I'm lowered into the grave or until the CRAC and other powers that be both at RIC and in local government actually get off the schneid and pony up the pennies, nickels and dimes to make it happen. All of your points on expansion and improvement need to come to pass - and I believe all of them are in the airports current master plan. Yes - building a bigger/better airport is gonna be bloody expensive. Now - to your point of an airline paying for airport expansion: I somehow don't see an airline willing to pay for parallel runways - and folks, we need two of 'em -- one set of parallels is nice - but we need two sets to realistically land us a hub. We need probably a complete second terminal (just expanding the current facility likely won't be sufficient)... we probably need a third and or fourth concourse - so we're talking about possibly doubling the number of gates we currently have.

By old-school (most would argue "realistic" thinking) - do we NEED this right now? Obviously - current traffic does not warrant this kind of expansion. HOWEVER - I'm 100% in lock step with you in that if we took the Nestea Plunge and built out the damn thing to the max - it won't sit idle. Will there be un/under used portions of such a huge facility for a while? Yeah - probably. But I don't think it will sit empty for more than a few years. If we build - AND MARKET - a MEGA airport (mind you, MEGA by "Richmond standards" - no one is talking about replicating DFW or ORD or ATL) - airlines will start showing up. I think they'd at least take a chance on the place and give it a shot. If they can't get the traffic - okay. That's one thing. But I think they'll show up - RVA's market size be damned - if for nothing else than the fact a new "super airport" just might attract travelers from out-of-market to come a fly out of this facility (particularly if indeed it helped increase direct service).

Admittedly different market dynamics altogether - but when it was first built in the '60s, how long did IAD sit empty? It wasn't all that long, if i remember my history correctly.

3.) Agreed 100% - and all (or at least most of) this is in the current on-file master plan, no?

Edited December 12, 2022 by I miss RVA

[eandslee]

35 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

Now - to your point of an airline paying for airport expansion: I somehow don't see an airline willing to pay for parallel runways - and folks, we need two of 'em -- one set of parallels is nice - but we need two sets to realistically land us a hub.

My bad - I didn’t emphasize it, but you’re right - an airline probably won’t help pay for a parallel runway, but a new (additional) terminal?  ALL DAY LONG!  Airlines do this all the time when they invest in the hub airports.  RDU got a new terminal back in the day when American Airlines (I think it was AA) decided to put a small hub at RDU. JetBlue built a nice new terminal at JFK recently.  So, Terminal, yes…new runway, probably not. This is where RIC needs to get things moving so that we can say we are ready for an airline to come in and invest at RIC. 
 

Marketing?  Market the hell out of the place!!

Costs?  Costs have improved over the years at RIC and is getting better. Still could improve.