mallguy

American and US Airways (separately) both had flights between GSP and LaGuardia about 10 years ago. For someone who lives in Greenville and even moreso Spartanburg, it makes no sense to stick with GSP for regular trips to the Northeast. They can fly out of GSP and be on a regional jet and have a choice of just a few flights a day (at most) or fly in the wrong direction to Atlanta and then connect, or connect in Charlotte and deal with the inconvenience of one more flight (GSP-CLT) that can get cancelled. Or they can just drive up to Charlotte, be there in the same time it takes to fly, and have a choice of a lot more flights on regular planes, multiple Admirals Clubs and more reliability.

GSP should focus as well on adding mainline "legacy" airline service. Just having Delta, United and American mostly run puddle jumpers to their hubs isn't sufficient because (1) for a frequent traveler who wants to go to a non-hub destination, it's often just as fast, or faster to drive to Charlotte and take a flight from there and (2) the puddle jumpers aren't as reliable as mainline flights. Let's say that someone wants to fly regularly from GSP to NYC. The total travel time with driving to Charlotte and flying from there is about the same (or faster) as flying from GSP, and by driving to Charlotte, there's less risk of a flight being canceled between GSP and Charlotte. I've had now 2 flights from GSP to "legacy" hubs cancelled in the past few months, resulting in delays of 8 hours and 16 hours, respectively. With that level of unreliability, I'd rather just drive to Charlotte.

Do we need ANOTHER nice grocery store in or around downtown, with Publix downtown and now Harris Teeter at Lewis Plaza? Wouldn't this location work for a Target (with the demographics probably similar to what supported the Sears that I was dragged to as a kid, across the street)?

It'll be terribly dated in 15 years. Downtown should have consistent architecture, with buildings that complement one another. Most of downtown's core does, but this does not.

Downtown stores were PACKED this weekend. Brooks Brothers, Mast General Store, etc. were all mobbed! One issue that I have with downtown is that the sidewalks, trees, outdoor dining, etc. were all set up when foot traffic downtown was far less than it is now. Now that downtown is such a destination, it's difficult to walk at a decent pace, since there are swarms of people up and down Main. I'd guess that there's nothing that can be done about it other than to perhaps reduce the restaurants' outdoor areas along Main, though. And couldn't something be done about the loud motorcycles along Main? They definitely detract from the nice ambiance.

Is Saluda River staying in a redeveloped site, or is it moving somewhere else?

Cute. We don't need to panic, but we do need to reflect on what type of architecture will result in Charlotte remaining beautiful in 50 and 100 years. 2005-era boxes won't do it, just as 1970s-era cement junk didn't do it, either. Remember how the Ivey's store at SouthPark was supposedly the most amazing, with-it store ever, until its 1970-era concrete grew out of style, for example?

I'd think that Metropolitan/Midtown could expand and really become the center city retail destination. If downtown Greenville, SC has stores ranging from Brooks Brothers to Anthropologie and the like, I still don't see why Charlotte doesn't, but at least something near uptown would be about as good.

Charlotte is one big glop of 2005-era architecture--and the Carolina Theater will be as well. That's all going to look incredibly dated in 20 years, just as 1970s-era architecture was horribly dated by the 1990s. I'd prefer that planners and developers build timeless architecture: neo-Classical, neo-Renaissance or even Colonial. CPCC's campus near uptown is an excellent development, since its architecture will not really be dated and it fits in well with Charlotte's history. It gets an A; the glass/brick boxes elsewhere all over town get a C.

Transit supporters really ought to tread with caution in Charlotte and be sure to build only rail lines that will generate a lot of ridership. Anti-transit zealots are itching to find any transit line that has low ridership and/or doesn't have a good farebox recovery ratio. So far the streetcar has a 0% farebox recovery ratio and low ridership. (I know that it won't be free once Phase 2 opens, and ridership will increase then.) I don't want to be giving the John Locke crowd any ammunition, but the streetcar could be it. I also don't want public transportation to have a stigma of being for "those other people", but the streetcar could be that as well. I'd prefer to focus on the Blue Line, commuter rail and additional Piedmont trains.

A good retail anchor could do much more to draw traffic than a movie theater could. Maybe a Saks Off Fifth or H&M or a cluster of higher-end chains (like the ONE project) or something?

An uptown mall? I don't see it happening. SouthPark is surrounded by high-income neighborhoods and has a critical mass of retail already. Uptown is surrounded by a mix: high-income neighborhoods and low-income ones. It has almost zero retail to start with (the Met isn't really within walking distance for most people so it doesn't really count as uptown, although it basically is). I don't think that going head-to-head vs. SouthPark would a good idea; SouthPark would win. Uptown Charlotte should do retail like downtown Greenville, SC does: destination retail of chains that aren't at the mall. The mall chains that are in downtown Greenville (Brooks Brothers, Anthropologie, etc.) are nicer than what's at its mall, and the anchor (Mast) is certainly not replicated at the mall. Downtown Greenville seems to do very well as a retail attraction.

Sad to hear about the Miniature World of Trains. I certainly liked it. It really should retool to be part of a "real" railroad museum. Spartanburg has a "real" railroad museum, and there is another one on the way to Columbia that has real trains to ride. Perhaps Greenville could get a "real" railroad museum with real railcars, and what results could be even better than expected. Or maybe it could have a model train store attached to it? Having $5 admissions as the only source of revenue, for all I could tell, perhaps was a tough business model.

Old Navy at SouthPark? What's next? Will Sears be returning to the mall?

Kermit, wow, great post and that's really shocking. I would assume (without a basis that I have verified) that VA has done well because of DC-area Federal government employment. I would guess (again, without a basis that I have verified) that the rest of the state has fared more like NC and SC. I'm shocked to see NC doing so badly. I'm also depressed to see SC doing not much better now than it did when I was born--particularly as the US as a whole isn't doing particularly well. I would guess (again, without a basis) that the low education levels in all of these states (outside the major urban areas in each state) are what's holding things back, but who knows.

Feel free to use all the anecdotes you want, but facts are facts: http://www.cnbc.com/2015/07/09/ (decline from 2013 to 2014, and most people would pay more to watch a movie at home vs. in a movie theater) Further, from the Motion Picture Industry of America's report referenced in the CNBC article: US/Canada movie theater admissions declined from 1.50 billion in 2004 to 1.34 billion in 2013. It's a general downward trend.

cltbwimob, FYI, South Carolina is a very heavily Republican state, with a much deeper GOP control of government at all levels. Virginia has a GOP legislature that has an even larger GOP majority in the lower house than the NC one does. So "the heavy hand of GOP-controlled NCGA" drives companies to relocate to neighboring states that also have GOP-controlled legislatures, and that are more GOP-controlled overall in some respects? And "the heavy hand of GOP-controlled NCGA" drove off companies to relocate to SC, a state that until yesterday had a Confederate battle flag in front of its State House? The NCGOP is THAT bad? FYI, here are economic data about NC, SC and VA. From best to worst, VA has the lowest unemployment and SC the highest; NC has the highest income growth and VA by far the lowest. So neither state seems a clear winner over the others. http://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.nc.htm http://www.bls.gov/regions/southeast/south_carolina.htm#eag http://www.bls.gov/regions/mid-atlantic/virginia.htm#eag Based on the economic data in those official government links (from the Obama Administration), NC seems to be doing better than SC and VA in many respects.

I don't care what the movie theater serves as long as it's a "nicer" movie theater; I don't want the trailer park crowd taking over downtown and running the rest of us away. I have concerns about movie theaters in general, though: movie theaters have low sales per square foot and are generally a declining industry, with dropping attendance recently. I'd prefer a large destination retailer or anchor, like a Cheesecake Factory or a Target, or even a Saks Off Fifth or an H&M.

1. The surrounding area has lower incomes than Woodruff Road does. 2. Haywood is not aesthetically appealing: particularly the zone between the mall and Laurens Road. 3. The surrounding area isn't experiencing as much residential growth as downtown and further-out suburbs. 4. The area has lost its short-lived monopoly on upscale chain retail. High-end chain stores can now consider downtown as a viable location. Haywood still has a strong central location, so if the area can improve its aesthetics, attract more upper-income residential development and lure some more strong retail anchors, it can certainly stay strong. Haywood certainly has not deteriorated like Pleasantburg Drive did, although it has trended in the same direction. Haywood Mall certainly needs to be preparing for the day it becomes a 3-anchor mall, minus Sears and JC Penney.

Haywood Road these days reminds me of South Main Street in 1985 (the fun and excitement are long gone). If the Cheesecake Factory wants to pick a location that'll be thriving in 10 years, it ought to think long and hard.

Why are so many "center city" grocery stores needed? The downtown Publix has enough business and is popular, but it's not mobbed 24/7. If anything, downtown-ish neighborhoods need a Target or Walmart/Neighborhood Market. I grew up being dragged to Sears at the Northpointe site and it always did fine.

As much as I dislike Haywood (the clientele, the exterior, the location, etc.), it's not a B mall; it's certainly a strong and dominant center- at least for now. Once downtown and exurbs keep building up, and once Sears closes (which will happen), things could change, but for now, it's a strong, mid-market shopping center. I also agree that Cheesecake Factory would do great downtown. The perfect location would be the Greenville News site, Riverplace or maybe McBee Station (for the ample parking).

Yes, the Polk building could be pretty chic inside.

Wouldn't a better downtown website help retail? Here's Greenville's. It doesn't even list the draws that will help new high-end stores come downtown. Anthropologie is one of this era's most in-demand retailers and so it should be trumpeted, to draw more stores and people downtown, but it's not even listed: http://www.visitgreenvillesc.com/things-to-do/shopping/ Here's a good one that is much more useful: http://www.palmersquare.com/shopping

I can't repeat this enough: we need more traditional architecture in these developments. What's in vogue today won't be in vogue in 15 years, and using "trendy" architecture, given all of the new construction downtown, will result in a skanky looking downtown soon, once they're out of style. Look at the existing Greenville News building: it and the Daniel/Landmark building were stylish when built, but they were eyesores within 15 years. There are plenty of architectural styles that have lasted hundreds of years. We should have more buildings using those styles.