Spartan

It's called designing for helicopters. It looks cool on the plan and from 500+ ft in the air but is not practical in anyway. Its the same reason they make serpentine sidewalks. They should have lined up the stair well with Spring Street so at least in theory you could walk directly across from Spring directly to to courthouse entrance.

Spartanburg Locomotives Loco's for short. People would go crazy for it.

I hope the large "Spartanburg" logo is used as part of the team name. The font + logo is actually pretty sharp. I agree with not using Hub City or Sparkle City as the team name.... those are great nick names, but they should stay that way. My concern with the team name is that the current team is called the "Down East Wood Ducks." Instead of the Kinston Wood Ducks. If you are not familiar with NC, "Down East" is not really a defined region - it's more an adjective. People who live inland refer to the area of southeastern NC around Wilmington/New Bern and the coast as living 'down east' - but people who live there don't identify with a specific geography as being down east. So anyway, the name of that team is already awkward. My concern is they would continue that tradition and go with the something similarly weird. I personally want a nice Spartanburg team name so I can get a hat or something with Spartanburg written in large letters to rep the city when I'm traveling.

I would love to see the Clemson-Carolina neutral site game here one year... but it might be too small for that.

Dang. 1600 parking spaces? That is insanity.

I think its a good compromise. Keep the ability to allow cars to circulate in case you need it (reduces risk of a permanent decision and having to undo).

What sort of community investment would change things for the Southside?

RE: Charlotte to Charleston - I agree the core problem is the SC General Assembly. They are not supportive of rail infrastructure (though they are wiling to 'study' it), and that is reflected in its chosen alignment for the high speed rail (which skips both Greenville and Spartanburg in favor of a single stop at the regional airport. Re: Rail Travel - it is not a stretch to think people will take the train. We will not have a European style intercity rail network, or the commensurate local transit network to support it, in our lifetimes. However, providing good, reliable, and frequent service can drive ridership. The assumption is that trains have to beat the travel time of a car, but IMO that's not true. A train has to be a better experience than a car. The value you're getting is the ability to be able to do something else. You can read, nap, work, play a video game, have a beer, etc. It's also an exponentially safer mode of transportation - you don't have to sit in congestion, worry about tailgating, distracted drivers, hydroplaning, etc. The CLT-RAL route's ridership is at an all time high, and NCDOT is working to expand it. You can also look at the success of the Brightline in Florida. IMO if people will travel to Raleigh, which is exponentially more suburban sprawled than CLT, then they would also travel to Charleston. Peninsular Charleston is the primary destination there. If you're going to Folly or IOP then you're likely not taking the train anyway. Downtown is where the majority of the hotels, restaurants, etc. are. It makes a lot of sense, IMO. So, point being, if you provide a convenient and reliable service, even if its not 'faster' than a car, you can still develop and expand ridership. And that, in turn, will help generate a land use response over time. Create the market and private sector development will follow.

Any rumblings on a team name yet?

This is interesting! I didn't realize it was a former post office or that the federal govt owned the lot. A lot of the vertical potential depends on how they can account for parking, and which is in part determined by what the market will allow. Now, never mind that there are like 5 massive parking decks within 1/2 mile of this location, I'm sure somehow those won't be considered. I'm not sure what the market will or wont support, but what we can say for sure is that with interest rates being what they are, and the office market being what it is (real bad), my money would be on like a 3-4 story mixed use building. Ground floor commercial with a few apartments up top. Just my guess. Personally I'll take any building at any height as long as its well-designed at the street level. Its a good thing we're building more parking decks that will sit empty lol

I think my biggest issue is the modern design aesthetic. That is not Spartanburg. Idk what our design aesthetic is, but it should not have this type of international generic blandness to it.

It isn't working because its an absolute garbage way to do zoning. Form based code maximizes flexibility for developers, creates clear expectations about what will happen for the public, and creates a built environment that, over time, supports the type of cities people say they want.

I'm not a fan of modern design/aesthetics, and I wish it had a more traditional feel that adds to the vibe of downtown instead of clashing with it. I am also not thrilled about the amount of trees they are removing. It's been 20ish years, since the last redo, and the trees are just now starting to provide good shade (well, the ones in the center of the square). The curvilinear terraces and green pockets just don't feel right to me. IMO materials are going to make/break this project. If they use a lot of granite and good brick pavers then it might turn out ok. I do like the design principles. I think their core concepts are solid and reflect what people told them. I like the hybrid street design that can be opened or closed... though I'm a bit unclear about what happens to Magnolia? I'm assuming traffic control would be through bollards of some sort. I like the amount of hardscape to green space... but I think the green space that's there is just for decoration, so I hope they do something better than grass (aside from the performance lawn area). I think green space is great, but in a space this small we need more hardscape for people to gather for larger events... think 'European village square' and not 'suburban front lawn.' I'll be interested to see how they decide to pay for this and the ultimate timeline. Feels like we're a few years away from anything breaking ground.

Also, just some educated guesses: Intersection projects that cost ~$500k are probably adding mast arms or upgrading traffic signal technology, possibly adding ADA features to traffic signals. Could also include other ADA features (like wheelchair ramps, etc) $1m-$2m dollars are probably adding left or right turn lanes, adding mast arms, and/or traffic signal signal tech - maybe getting into geometric modifications. This could mean changing where the streets intersect or how they intersect to improve sight distances, reduce crashes, adding splitter islands, ped countdown timers, ADA features, etc.)

Gold start for creating that map westsider! The County could/should do a much better job explaining what all is in there. Also, I guarantee you they have a map somewhere of these things... not just a list. The only thing that sough about that list is that of all the streets I'm most familiar with in Spartanburg, many of them are on that list. What would be great is if they shared at laest part of the prioritization methodology. What is a tier 3 vs 4? Why is that differentiation important? How do these relate to the State's resurfacing plan with the new gas tax $$? Why are we paying to resurface like 10 miles of highway 29 through town when SCDOT should be doing it?

So is the entire hospitality tax being consumed by this project and Memorial auditorium? I'm all for these projects, but feels like committing all of our hospitality tax resources for the next generation is not the most fiscally responsible path.

I get those a lot too. VPN is usually the problem, or if you have a browser/plug-in that deletes cookies.

That's reasonable, but also speaks to the strength of the market downtown... or lack thereof.

Just an observation, but Spartanburg is really crushing its tourism investments right now. Dan Trail's $25m RAISE grant, Saluda Grade Trail is up to $15million, and the baseball stadium is a $250m investment - mostly private, but will be a huge boost for local tourism. And lets not forget the planetarium expansion on the library site, and the Morgan Square renovation will create more space for more events downtown... what else am I missing? Seems like a great time to invest in Spartanburg County!

I'm not going to suggest Spartans never travel to Greenville for an occasional Drive game, but I think people are less willing to travel for the sole purpose of a minor league baseball game. I doubt this will hurt their business at all. Greenville has a lot of great things going for it, but let's not lose the perspective that this is just a minor league baseball team.

I feel like a deck wrap (which could include apts/amenity deck on top of the parking) seems most likely. The places in Charlotte where you have a pure podium style structure (building on top of parking structure) are almost all terrible designs and tend to be located in areas with very high land values (Uptown, South End).

Thanks for posting that! Did they not reference a single penny for pedestrians or cyclists? Its a shame the General Assembly has let our roads deteriorate to the point that we have to spend basically ALL of our (hypothetical) local road money on maintenance.

Wow this is phenomenal news! I honestly thought this was sort of a pipe dream (but a fun one to talk about!). This could be a real shot in the arm for the area just south of Downtown. Can't wait to see how this unfolds!

Ave or Square?

A few thoughts: Biscuitville is good, but a bit overrated, IMO. Would not recommend waiting in that line, or driving to Duncan, just for that. But if you fund yourself in the My position on Mast is "meh, who cares?" I don't want to be like Greenville. There are other stores out there. Maybe the Local Hiker can expand and compete one day? That said, I suspect the inability to keep Wild Wing Cafe and the lack of a Mast are very related topics. As is the general lack of retail/restaurants east of Church. Bad management is certainly a contributing factor, but also mediocre food, and service. I put WWC in the same category as Sticky Fingers. It was a great regional chain restaurant in its prime, but it lost quality, originality, and "coolness' as it expanded. That's part of why I don't really care about a Mast Store. If Greenville, Asheville, Waynesville, Henderson, Boone, Winston-Salem, Columbia (am I missing any?) all have them, what stopping them from Spartanburg? The differentiator, IMO is $$$. Those places have a higher local median income and/or a LOT of tourist $$$. Spartanburg County is growing, but we haven't hit a critical mass of business/residents with disposable income in and around downtown yet. One day it will pop like Greenville did, and we'll all wish we had invested in property when it was cheap.