Richland Mall Redevelopment

[waccamatt]

Wouldn't a possibility also be the fact that there aren't as many jobs in Columbia that pay well enough for people to actually afford to buy items that exist in bigger cities? I think that is a big factor actually.

Actually, if you look at average income, Metro Columbia is the highest in the state and only slightly lower than Charlotte with a lower cost of living. I just think some retail expansion won't take place until we have a larger population base.

Since when was Columbia a "large" city??? I thought Large Cities have Professional Sports Teams, and malls that have stores such as Louis Vuitton, Saks, Gucci, Brooks Brothers, Diesel, Armani Exchange, and Neiman Marcus....i thought large cities have Immigration offices, and an International Airport? And the Population is nowhere near 1 million.... Columbia is not a large city in my book....

Columbia does have a customs office and we are close to 750,000. Of course large cities have all of the professional sports franchises, look at LA's NFL team....er...oops, LA doesn't have a pro football team.

Now how come you get to be the one that gets to bash Columbia? Let me do it for a change.

Because if you do then Greenville becomes fair game, lol.

[g-man430]

^^^Don't forget about Las Vegas too. How many NFL, NBA, and MLB teams do they have?

[krazeeboi]

We could also mention Norfolk/Hampton Roads, Austin, Louisville, Birmingham, etc.--cities in excess of 200K residents and metro areas with 1 million+ inhabitants.

[Captain Worley]

I think the reason there isn't as much high end retail is that, generally, South Carolinians are a conservative group, less inclined to chase the latest trend or show the trappings of wealth. Probably a leftover mindset from when we were a basically agricultural state.

Just a guess.

[Spartan]

I think its because the perception is that we can't support it.

[Captain Worley]

I see what you're saying, but I'm not sure we would support it. There is still a 'real money doesn't announce itself' mindset here.

[digital_sandlapper]

I see what you're saying, but I'm not sure we would support it. There is still a 'real money doesn't announce itself' mindset here.

. . and that's not necessarily a bad thing. You're right, it is not polite to flaunt your wealth in S.C., and that's part of it. Old money especially teaches you not to do such a thing.

There are plenty of "nouveau riche" and tacky people here, that do flaunt their (temporary) wealth. But nowhere near the level of Atlanta or Charlotte . . . yet.

[Captain Worley]

Oh, I'm not saying it is a bad thing by any stretch I think it shows a good bit of financial wisdom, and it is an attitude I'm glad to see in SC.

[Temeteron]

Im not saying its bad, but dont you think that it would be nicer to have stores that offer much nicer stuff, and higher quality things? People from out of town and from other countries who are used to having a big variety of retail find it very difficult to deal with SC's monotonous retail scene.....pick your choice: Wal-Mart, Belk, JCPenny, Rack Room Shoes or Foot Locker....I know of small towns in Europe that have populations of less than 80,000 that have a more mix of a retail scene than Columbia

[waccamatt]

Im not saying its bad, but dont you think that it would be nicer to have stores that offer much nicer stuff, and higher quality things? People from out of town and from other countries who are used to having a big variety of retail find it very difficult to deal with SC's monotonous retail scene.....pick your choice: Wal-Mart, Belk, JCPenny, Rack Room Shoes or Foot Locker....I know of small towns in Europe that have populations of less than 80,000 that have a more mix of a retail scene than Columbia

Tem, there are plenty of places you may buy high quality goods in Columbia. The problem I have with your mindset is that you think they have to be supplied by chains that have a "name" attached to them. I happen to enjoy spending money on clothes and I find plenty of very nice mens clothes at Savoy, Weathers and Louries. One doesn't have to shop at Louis Vuitton to be in style unless, of course, you're trying to impress someone with a name.

[g-man430]

I think the reason there isn't as much high end retail is that, generally, South Carolinians are a conservative group, less inclined to chase the latest trend or show the trappings of wealth. Probably a leftover mindset from when we were a basically agricultural state.

Just a guess.

Umm...I disagree. Look at Greenville and something called http://www.magnoliapark.com/ that is going to mostly have only high end retailers such as the Apple Store, the Cheesecake Factory, and many others. Unfortunately it will not have a Nordstrom or Bass Pro Shops though. Heck, you could look at Charleston and Myrtle Beach too. They have high end retailers most cities would kill for. Columbia can get high-end retailers if they wanted too and I bet they would be successful. They just have to work hard at it.

[Temeteron]

My point exactly, Charleston, Greenville, & Myrtle Beach always get stuff before Columbia....the capital

[g-man430]

^^^Oh yeah. I think I just bashed Columbia by accident. My bad. I assure you it wasn't on purpose though. I was just saying that Columbia can get the big name retailers like any other large city has and they can be successful if they want too.

[krazeeboi]

Oh my God, have we really gotten to the point where we consider an Apple Store and that nasty Cheesecake Factory as "high-end" retail?

First rule of thumb: trendy and high-end are NOT the same thing.

The fact of the matter is that, for the most part, we really only have what you could consider upper level mid-tier retail throughout our cities. The very few high-end exceptions are due to the wealthy tourists who come to SC with lots of money to spend. Once you eliminate the tourist factor, the truth is that there are very few differences in the retail scenes of each of our major cities. Each one has stores/restaurants that the other doesn't have or got some of those stores or restaurants first; big friggin' deal. I don't mind some nice chains here and there, but they are hardly the sign that a city has "arrived."

[waccamatt]

I agree with Krazee; how can you possibly classify the Cheesecake Factory as anything more than a middle of the road chain restaurant? The Apple Store? You can buy Macs/Ipods all over the place. I don't know where the idea came from that chain stores make a city, but they don't in my book. For comparisons sake, does Greenville or Charleston have a Sharper Image? Does Greenville have an American Apparel? Do you see how silly the chain game is?

[krazeeboi]

My point exactly, Charleston, Greenville, & Myrtle Beach always get stuff before Columbia....the capital

What does Columbia's status as the capital have to do with anything? All that means is that the city is the seat of state government; nothing more. Otherwise, Tallahassee would be the big dog in Florida and Sacramento would be the big dog in California.

[Captain Worley]

And who needs a store when you have the internet and a credit card?

[Chi2Midlands]

I agree that there is more of an attitude in the Midlands of not flaunting your wealth, at least not amongst a signficantly large mass of people. In fact, that's one of the reasons my wife and I moved down here - while Columbia is largely white-collar professional (at least by SC standards), it goes about it quietly. Sure, we can build loft condos in the Vista, revitalize bungalow districts like Shandon, maintain nice comfortable houses in Forest Acres, and build newer, larger middle class housing in suburban Richland and Lexington counties, but that does not mean we have to have a 3-series BMW in every driveway or a Restoration Hardware in every mall. In time, some of those things will come, but I will not hold my breath for a P.F. Chang's to open to announce that we are a "real" city - we already are!

Also, many of us would be "excited" if such upscale stores open, but how many of us will TRULY shop their often enough to make those stores PROFITABLE here - these retailers aren't dumb, and there is a reason why they choose seemingly arbitrary criteria to open up stores beyond average/median incomes (such as only opening in metros of over 1 million in population) - they need a large enough VOLUME of high-spenders to justify their presence here. They need a steady stream of shoppers who will drop money like once a month, not once or twice a year. That's why an Ann Taylor Loft can be justified at the Village of Sandhill, but a regular (i.e., more expensive) Ann Taylor may not be at Richland Mall (that's not to say there's NO market for this type of clothing - there's a Talbot's (which is for a more mature look than Ann Taylor, admittedly) at Forest and Trenholm, for example).

[Temeteron]

I agree with Krazee; how can you possibly classify the Cheesecake Factory as anything more than a middle of the road chain restaurant? The Apple Store? You can buy Macs/Ipods all over the place. I don't know where the idea came from that chain stores make a city, but they don't in my book. For comparisons sake, does Greenville or Charleston have a Sharper Image? Does Greenville have an American Apparel? Do you see how silly the chain game is?

Actually Charleston used to have a Sharper Image......but not anymore...but they have a Brookstone (we just end up getting a Brookstone kiosk in the middle of the hallway only during xmas season) whoopty doo........you guys arent hardcore shoppers you wouldnt understand........and what that one person said about how you can buy just about anything anywhere in SC at any store is a false statement.....take Puma for example...the boutique in Charleston carries waaaay more stuff than any Champs, Finish Line, Foot Locker, Foot Action, Dick's or Todd & Moore

[Spartan]

Oh my God, have we really gotten to the point where we consider an Apple Store and that nasty Cheesecake Factory as "high-end" retail?

First rule of thumb: trendy and high-end are NOT the same thing.

The fact of the matter is that, for the most part, we really only have what you could consider upper level mid-tier retail throughout our cities. The very few high-end exceptions are due to the wealthy tourists who come to SC with lots of money to spend. Once you eliminate the tourist factor, the truth is that there are very few differences in the retail scenes of each of our major cities. Each one has stores/restaurants that the other doesn't have or got some of those stores or restaurants first; big friggin' deal. I don't mind some nice chains here and there, but they are hardly the sign that a city has "arrived."

Exactly. Well said, Krazee.

[TheSuperPope]

Actually Charleston used to have a Sharper Image......but not anymore...but they have a Brookstone (we just end up getting a Brookstone kiosk in the middle of the hallway only during xmas season) whoopty doo........you guys arent hardcore shoppers you wouldnt understand........and what that one person said about how you can buy just about anything anywhere in SC at any store is a false statement.....take Puma for example...the boutique in Charleston carries waaaay more stuff than any Champs, Finish Line, Foot Locker, Foot Action, Dick's or Todd & Moore

But like captain said, who needs the store when we all obviously have the internet and probably a credit card or two? No, I'm not a hardcore shopper (the thought of being in the mall or just trying on clothes sends chills up and down my body), so I guess I don't understand.

PS the Puma boutique in Charleston carries less than any of your international soccer equipment dealers (trust me, after many many years of having to order cleats and equipment, I was excited to finally see them in our state. Lo and behold though, my favorite dealer had turned all crappy and trendy on me and I just wanted some cleats )

[TheCarolinaKing]

Well personally I like shopping, and I like many of those "name brand" stores. I agree (I was raised here) that wealth shouldnt be flaunted, but Louis Vuitton and all those other high end store do make conservative items (which are the type of items that I purchase). I really believe that the columbia market can handle several small botique type high end stores. The stores dont have to be the size of those in Houston or Atl but smaller botiques like the Gucci and Charleston I believe can thrive in our market. I remember an article that was in the state one day that talked about the dispersion of money in SC and how the majority of the wealth is in Charleston, Columbia, Greenville, Hilton Head and Myrtle Beach. However when added in with thte highly poverty stricken areas in the state, overall our state looks to be lacking. To those who are concerned with our state not being able to support the high end retail, remember that tourism in SC is picking up (I even saw a comercial about visit SC last night), and there are plenty of wealthy northern transfers.

Don't get me wrong, I dont feel that high end stores "make" a city big. i do feel that it is time for a larger variety of retail. We really dont need anymore stores that sell khakis, polo shirts, sweater vest, and boat shoes.!

[krazeeboi]

Actually Charleston used to have a Sharper Image......but not anymore...but they have a Brookstone (we just end up getting a Brookstone kiosk in the middle of the hallway only during xmas season) whoopty doo........you guys arent hardcore shoppers you wouldnt understand........and what that one person said about how you can buy just about anything anywhere in SC at any store is a false statement.....take Puma for example...the boutique in Charleston carries waaaay more stuff than any Champs, Finish Line, Foot Locker, Foot Action, Dick's or Todd & Moore

Well, here at UP we tend to be hardcore urbanists first and foremost. Most of these stores we're talking about (and ones like them) are why our cities/downtowns went into decline in the first place.

Secondly, the Puma example fits in with one of the "very few differences" I talked about. With few exceptions, you can find the same basic stuff in all of our cities. When Charleston or Greenville get a Phipps Plaza or Tysons Galleria or even a SouthPark to the exclusion of Columbia, call me. Until then, it's basically the same ol', same ol' throughout this state. The very few exceptions that exist aren't enough to make any substantial difference, unless one's entire existence revolves around those exceptions.

[Spartan]

Good points Krazee.

[g-man430]

And who needs a store when you have the internet and a credit card?

Let's just stick with ebay for the rest of our lives.

I agree with Krazee; how can you possibly classify the Cheesecake Factory as anything more than a middle of the road chain restaurant? The Apple Store? You can buy Macs/Ipods all over the place. I don't know where the idea came from that chain stores make a city, but they don't in my book. For comparisons sake, does Greenville or Charleston have a Sharper Image? Does Greenville have an American Apparel? Do you see how silly the chain game is?

Actually, American Apparel WAS supposed to build a store in downtown Greenville on Main Street, but it didn't work out for some reason.