Charlotte's Urban Lowe's Home Improvement

[MZT]

In keeping with A2's concerns on the 210 Trade thread.... Does it seem to anyone else, like nothing is happening here? They tore down the old garages months ago.

I think Lowes just reported a weak quarter recently. I wonder if their expansion plans are being slowed down....

[uptownliving]

Maybe Conformity can answer those questions. The condos have to get started before Lowe's can start on their store.

[Conformity]

UptownLiving? You wouldn't be playing to my ego would you?

A few specific things slowed down progress on the Lowes site, but there are no real problems. One of them was tenant holdovers (The Quilter's Gallery just vacating this week). There are a few other tenants left, but they will move on soon.

As part of the rezoning effort Conformity commited to "banking" 15 trees of 4" caliper or greater. Those trees were near the houses that are still standing and I asked that Conformity be afforded to effect the tree removal before those houses were razed to insure they were not damaged before we had the chance to take them out. That has been accomplished and the houses will be razed concurrent with those buildings that have the commercial holdover tenants in them.

I suspect that you will see mass grading in November. Watch this site for development solutions that will receive national attention. It's going to be crazy good.

[lptk]

I suspect that you will see mass grading in November. Watch this site for development solutions that will receive national attention. It's going to be crazy good.

Glad to hear that. As a neighbor of this a couple of blocks to the east, I'm happy to see this get underway.

[dubone]

Yeah, I think this one will end up with more attention than almighty Birkdale.

I am so happy that Lowe's, Dilworth, city planning, etc. were able to get this project to this point. I'm also relieved that we have such an urban project without subsidies. I hope that continues.

[atlrvr]

This project has already received a large amount of national press in planning and real estate journals.....I think we will start to see this as the rule rather than an anomoloy within 5 years.

[atlrvr]

But shareholders demand growth, and there are only so many small towns that can be built in, so like Wal-Mart, Home Depot and Lowe's will have to find ways to enter urban markets (where the majority of the population lives) To do this, they will have to make concessions to planning staffs, and a having precedent urban model will give planners the ability to say "see, you did it in Charlotte and it worked, so we expect that kind of design here too".

As far as other rural stores, I don't expect this ever to occur.

[monsoon]

When the NCDOT builds a highway such as this, the area does not stay rural. This is where Lowes sees most of its growth because when new development goes up there is a huge demand from people to buy stuff for their new homes. Lowes makes a huge amount of money on yard stuff for example.

There are at best 5000 new residences proposed for the center of Charlotte. (including the areas outside the CBD) Outside the city there are 100,000 new residences proposed. It's not hard to see where they are going to locate new stores to go after growth. A lot will depend upon the sales that Lowes sees at it's Dilworth store. Since that store is significantly smaller than the typical Lowes going up these days, the selection there is going to be more limited, and you may still see inner city residents going out to the suburbs to shop in better stocked suburban versions of this store.

I am not saying this is a good thing, but it is the reality of what we see here in this area. And if Charlotte and the surrounding towns continue to make moves to restrict growth, then more of this is going to happen outside the county because most of the surrounding counties are still about 20 years away from choking on the bad growth they are approving. (Though last night apparently, there was almost a fist fight at the Union county commissioners meeting because they voted to make developers start paying for schools or pay a fine for new develoment. One of the commissioners who didn't want this to happen said. "He's fixin' to be in the middle of getting his rear end whipped"...)

[atlrvr]

Just a correction....the store is not going to be smaller.....Lowe's has two protoypes.....one is about 120,000 sq. ft. and the other is about 140,000 sq. ft.....I don't recall which one this will be (Conformity, can you help out), but the point being, it will still be the same size as one of their suburban prototypes, and carry the same selection. Also, while the burbs are growing, the center city already has about 3,500 people per square mile that are "unserved".

While there probably won't be many more opportunities in Charlotte for these types of stores, there are cities across the country that are similarly underserved, and that Lowe's will look to enter. My point is, this type of concept is what will make these big boxes palatable in these other markets.

[uptownliving]

According to the rezoning the breakout for the SouthEnd Lowes:

Main Store: 140,000 sq ft

Garden Center: 30,000 sq ft

Sales/Storage: 5,000 sq ft

Outdoor Living Center: 4,200 sq ft

That brings the Lowes total to 179,200 sq ft

[monsoon]

The business journal says this about that Lowes.

The 116,000-square-foot store, with a brick fa

[dubone]

Lowe's has said this is their new prototype for urban locations, where they plan to focus on in the future for growth. The sprawling suburbs are saturated, but urban centers are underserved. Their plans in Dilworth will be used for new stores in places like Chicago, New York, etc. Lincoln county and other suburban locations will continue to get the old model. Rooftop parking doesn't make sense where land is cheap. But as they try to grow where land isn't cheap, this is the design prototype.

[monsoon]

I keep hearing that, but since that Dilworth Lowes was approved there have been at least two more suburban ones approved in the Charlotte area that I know about, and possibly more. The analysist's that keep offering the opinion seem to completely miss that fact.

In fact, in the last 20 years, Lowes has closed far more stores inside the city limits than what they have built. The one they are building in South End off the transit line replaces one they closed on South Blvd would have been on the transit line about 15 years ago. 20 years ago, there was a Lowes right on Walnut Avenue that is closer to downtown than the the one being built in SE. I don't see where this is anything new except for the parking on the roof.

[dubone]

Every thing I have read is that they will continue to open an obscene number of suburban locations, just like before. However, they will change their approach of opening ZERO stores in the centers of cities, or urban locations. They plan to open the Dilworth store, learn some things, and then open some stores in urban locations.

Lowe's is not going to alter their business model substantially. They are simply trying to add growth in a new type of location.

[Conformity]

This project has already received a large amount of national press in planning and real estate journals.....I think we will start to see this as the rule rather than an anomoloy within 5 years.

I did not know that. Where have you seen it, if you don't mind me asking?

[Conformity]

I can only speak to a couple of things on this issue....specifically, those that are public. As to size, the BJ made a mistake. This store has its roots in the full size module. Metro M: this store is innovative in ways that go far beyond parking on the roof....not the least of which is the fact that it is skinned with housing on 2 sides....I mean housing attached directly to the store.

Now of course I am biased, but that's pretty cool (innovative).

[monsoon]

Ahh OK. I based what I said on the last thing that I had heard about this project. If this is indeed a full sized Lowes, then I suspect that one of the things they are going to learn is how undesirable it is to live next to one of these warehouses. There is a huge turnover in product in one of these places (if it is to be profitable) and that means multitudes of cars, trucks and semis heading in and out of there all day long. It's a constant drone that will go on 7 days/week and all day long. Even the garbage hauled out of one of these places is quite impressive. This is most likely the reason why you don't usually see them in mixed use development as people don't want to live next to something like that.

[queensguy06]

Quick question, how are they planning to get large and/or heavy stuff to the autos on the roof? I could see them doing it several different ways, just wondering which route Lowe's is taking.

[nowensone]

Ahh OK. I based what I said on the last thing that I had heard about this project. If this is indeed a full sized Lowes, then I suspect that one of the things they are going to learn is how undesirable it is to live next to one of these warehouses. There is a huge turnover in product in one of these places (if it is to be profitable) and that means multitudes of cars, trucks and semis heading in and out of there all day long. It's a constant drone that will go on 7 days/week and all day long. Even the garbage hauled out of one of these places is quite impressive. This is most likely the reason why you don't usually see them in mixed use development as people don't want to live next to something like that.

I have been thinking that the whole time (and been afraid to post), and I guess I really don't get the whole concept, even after following this thread. One, of getting the kinds of materials bought at a place like this to your downtown condo/townhome. Seems to contradict the idea of downtown living and not needing a car, not that it would do you much good, you'd still be lugging your materials up an elevator, or god forbid, on a bus or train. Or Two, as mentioned in the quote, the impracticalities of living adjacent to a giant hardware store.

[atlrvr]

I admit, some people will be turned off from living next to the store, but they only need to find 75 or so that don't mind.

There are a few restrictions in place to help alleviate truck noise.....

The rezoning petition restricts the average number of trucks a day (I think to 17 on average), trucks aren't allowed before a certain hour. Also, the design (and zoning ) make sure trucks can only enter from a right turn from SOuth Blvd. to Inverson Way.....enter the store, then exit Iverson and right out onto South. This keeps trucks from passing any residences.

EDIT. Conformity, I'll try to dig up those articles and post them if they are online.

[lptk]

Ahh OK. I based what I said on the last thing that I had heard about this project. If this is indeed a full sized Lowes, then I suspect that one of the things they are going to learn is how undesirable it is to live next to one of these warehouses. There is a huge turnover in product in one of these places (if it is to be profitable) and that means multitudes of cars, trucks and semis heading in and out of there all day long. It's a constant drone that will go on 7 days/week and all day long. Even the garbage hauled out of one of these places is quite impressive. This is most likely the reason why you don't usually see them in mixed use development as people don't want to live next to something like that.

A cloud for every silver lining, eh?

The agreements in place (on truck and forklift time restrictions, enclosed compacted trash, no outdoor speakers, operating hour limits, and restrictions on outside merchandising/storage) make me much less concerned than i would be if this was to be a normal big box. I see in-good-faith planning by Lowe's, so I am willing to wait and see how this turns out.

I'm hard-pressed to imagine how it could be worse than the paved-over industrial mess that preceeded this project. It seems that anyone who claims to be in favor of density along transit corridors and creative redevelopment would find something to appreciate in this plan...

[dubone]

I think they've got a plan, or they wouldn't have signed the agreement.

Also, there are noise barriers between the trucks and the homes. If South Boulevard hasn't been an impediment to housing in SouthEnd, then I doubt the Lowes will be. Macs, a block away, will probably be a larger noise annoyance.

[atlrvr]

Ahhh...I'm not sure where I got that 17/day number from....maybe it was in version 32 or it was an estimate pitched by a Lowe's rep. I was at about a dozen of those meetings, and my brain still hasn't returned to full function.

[MZT]

I think we've had threads before... where we debate whether anyone would be willing to live near a fire station, or quickie-mart, or a baseball park. There are people that will... not everyone, but out of a large city wide population, there would be someone.

I don't see this as being as strange as the million dollar "Clock Sandwich" condos for Smith Curry.

[dubone]

Most people don't want to live near anything or anyone. That is why 90% of the region is suburban, exurban and rural in character. If the central part of Charlotte is also catering to people who don't want to be subjected to noise, cars, and other people, then we're in for a big problem.

The thing is, there are homes in central Charlotte that front interstates, freight tracks, public housing, industrial facilities, office towers, firehouses, bars, restaurants, churches (loud ones that practice brass instruments past midnight), and many other things.

If the design is interesting, the location is desireable, and the price is correct, people will certainly want to live in these units. It is in Dilworth, fronts a very desireable residential neighborhood, is convenient to light rail, and major thoroughfares. So what if a few people might be buying appliances and designing their next kitchen on the other side of a thick concrete wall. It can't be louder than the other things I listed before. And as for trucks, there are already significant numbers of trucks that go all over the place in central Charlotte. NoDa grew despite being on a major truck route to the intermodal (train-truck) facility. I actually think the slow moving trucks are much more tolerable than all those fast moving trucks I hear all the time from my house with that weird vibrating air brake noise.

Anyway, all that to say that I predict this will be a success and will be able to successfully be reused in other larger cities with more expensive land.