PROPOSED: OneEleven Fountain (Fogarty Bldg.)

[Cotuit]

So apparently, since I have children, your solution is going to the mall - great way to market Providence - just brilliant!

[mental757]

Children aren't banned from any restaurant. Just because you have children you have to eat at Outback?

[Mothra]

So apparently, since I have children, your solution is going to the mall - great way to market Providence - just brilliant!

[webbage]

Based on this logic every Starbucks, DD, Au Bon Pain, etc. should be removed from the city. Yes?

[Mothra]

Not removed, Oh Faulty Logic One, but certainly not added to in DOWNCITY.

[mental757]

if you come to Providence to eat at a Panera, then...Hm. I'm not sure WHAT to say to you that you'll understand.

I certainly do not understand the mentality that the Mall is somehow a bad place to go, unacceptable even, but an Outback downtown would be "trendy" or something? What is that about?

[Mothra]

So, are you saying that if we don't have an applebees downtown the city will suffer? And people will STARVE?

I travel a lot. And I am a fussy, picky eater. And yet, when I go someplace that doesn't have a Dunkin Donuts or something familier to me, I still manage to eat. I do not think less of a city if it doesn't have a chain fast food joint downtown in order for me to get a Panera's Frontega Chicken Sandwich or a Wendy's Single with Cheese, Lettuce and Tomato.

The idea that we need to dumb down the city's culinary resources downtown is exactly the same shrill mentality that says "build more parking for people because they can't possibly walk a block."

AND PS. I am thinking big picture. Providence's food industry is just that, an industry. Watering it down with Applebees and Chilis and Wendy's and such will not strengthen this incredibly important tourism pull. If we can't keep them out of the entire city, we should at least try to keep them out of the core of downtown as best we can.

[CtownMikey]

The mall only has so many spots for successful chains to put up shop. I think having a well known, AFFORDABLE, and successful chain restaurant in downtown will help keep the type of tourist (or suburban visitor) who would usually be turned off by the higher end eating establiments that we have here to decide to stay in the city.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that a lot of people in RI like the word affordable and dont look down on eating at a chain restaurant. We have over 1 million people within 45 minutes of Providence, why not give every single person the option to eat in the city without making them go broke BUT giving them an option of at least 2 or 3 chains in the city.

So, are you saying that if we don't have an applebees downtown the city will suffer? And people will STARVE?

I travel a lot. And I am a fussy, picky eater. And yet, when I go someplace that doesn't have a Dunkin Donuts or something familier to me, I still manage to eat. I do not think less of a city if it doesn't have a chain fast food joint downtown in order for me to get a Panera's Frontega Chicken Sandwich or a Wendy's Single with Cheese, Lettuce and Tomato.

The idea that we need to dumb down the city's culinary resources downtown is exactly the same shrill mentality that says "build more parking for people because they can't possibly walk a block."

AND PS. I am thinking big picture. Providence's food industry is just that, an industry. Watering it down with Applebees and Chilis and Wendy's and such will not strengthen this incredibly important tourism pull. If we can't keep them out of the entire city, we should at least try to keep them out of the core of downtown as best we can.

[mental757]

So, are you saying that if we don't have an applebees downtown the city will suffer? And people will STARVE?

I travel a lot. And I am a fussy, picky eater. And yet, when I go someplace that doesn't have a Dunkin Donuts or something familier to me, I still manage to eat. I do not think less of a city if it doesn't have a chain fast food joint downtown in order for me to get a Panera's Frontega Chicken Sandwich or a Wendy's Single with Cheese, Lettuce and Tomato.

The idea that we need to dumb down the city's culinary resources downtown is exactly the same shrill mentality that says "build more parking for people because they can't possibly walk a block."

[Mothra]

not everyone thinks like you... SOME people do have a hard time and are fussy when it comes to eating at unknown places. It will only expand our industry.... and if it hurts our current restaurants.. then they will only be given the option to improve.

[runawayjim]

What kind of wacko universe do you live in where you actually believe that a Wendy's will improve Providence's restaurant scene? Do you think that Trinity Brewhouse will start making their burgers square as a result?!

I don't look down at eating at chain restaurants. I know the Panera menu backwards and forwards, Wendy's too! But I think they have no place in downtown Providence.

Don't get me started on affordable and how local delis provide a much better product at a cheaper price than a Panera or a Subway.

I need a drink.

[Lone Ranger]

What kind of wacko universe do you live in

[CtownMikey]

You don't need to put words in my mouth... I never said wendy's.... I said Outback...

Wendy's is fast food, and so is Panera in comparison to a normal restaurant...but Outback is not, therefore it really is a seperate argument

And as far as an Outback SH leading to an improved food restaurant scene overall... It was with the assumption that you thought our local/successful restaurants would lose business b/c of an addition of a couple of chains. I assume this is your concern because if it isn't, then the only other scenario is that more people will be eating in the city with no negative affect to our current hoppin' food scene... and you're crazy to object to that...SO assuming my assumption was correct, if the current high end places ended up with sluggish business as a result, their only option would be to improve their service and food to compete with the new competiton... which would make for an overall stronger culinary scene..

does anybody else understand this??

I'm just saying IF... but I dont think bringing in a chain or two would hurt any restaurant in this city at all.... JUST IF

[webbage]

Not to suck up to mental, but we should listen to him, he knows the travel/tourism industry well.

Time is an important factor. Some of my coworkers will drive up to Branch Ave to get to McDonalds and drive back (to Empire Street), wheras I might have gone to a restaurant downtown and my food still isn't ready.

And having some well known brands is a good idea, especially for travelers since they don't exactly know what to expect, especially if they're on the run - should they find someplace to hop on TripAdvisor and see if the restaurant is good? A brand is dependable.

Do we need a massive amount of chains? No, but a few could be helpful.

And also, how far should anti-branding go? Should Fleming's not go in the Westin? It's a chain. Obviously we should have fought against the Hilton improvement because Starbucks is common and there's more than one Shula's in the country. Ruth's Chris in GTech? Hell no! (Apparently)

[xine]

It's not only people who are unadventurous or those traveling with very small fussy people who like chains- some people legitimately adore chain restaurant food. I myself am partial to Pizzeria Uno's and I do eat Sicilia's stuffed crust pizza fairly often, but they just can't seem to cram as much grease into that crust as Uno's does.

Another case in point: we hosted our 19 year old nephew as a houseguest for a week last summer. It was restaurant week, so we got to take him to some great places and try some great food cheaply- we ate at XO, at Parkside, Don Jose Tequila, sat outside at Paragon. Anyway, on the last night, we drive by the mall and he exclaims "You've got a Cheesecake Factory?! Oh, man, I wish we could've eaten there!". Sigh.

I think it's great that the market here actually supports as many independents as it does and is real credit to the city - it is most certainly not like that everywhere. If a couple of chains want to piggyback on that success, I'd prefer that to the other way around.

[Jerry2]

Did the fast food chains not make it here because of profitability or because the rent skyrocketed enough where it ate at their profit margins substantially? Burger King and McDonalds both had stores downtown for quite a long time before half of Westminster, or downtown for that matter, had as many residents and visitors as it does now. Your argument, Mothra, as it is somehow linked to the dumbing down of our culinary accomplishments is absurd. You are discounting the fact that there is a large population of broke college students surrounding the city that may want to go and get a burger @ Burger King because they have $2.35 in their wallet or the Civic Center patron who has 20 minutes to grab something to eat during halftime and doesn't want to pay $10 for a cheeseburger at the concession stand.

All great cities that have moderately successful downtowns have a mix of recognizable "chains" and independent stores. It is what makes an area enticing for a plethora of people. Pvd has successfully increased its share of hotel room availability in order to attract bigger and better conventions. Hopefully, with the renovations to the Dunk, it too will increase the amount of performances that are held there. It is for this reason that I think this building would benefit from attracting recognizable establishments so that people don't need to cross the Skywalk and never physically set foot in the city.

[runawayjim]

You are discounting the fact that there is a large population of broke college students surrounding the city that may want to go and get a burger @ Burger King because they have $2.35 in their wallet or the Civic Center patron who has 20 minutes to grab something to eat during halftime and doesn't want to pay $10 for a cheeseburger at the concession stand.

[mental757]

All great cities that have moderately successful downtowns have a mix of recognizable "chains" and independent stores. It is what makes an area enticing for a plethora of people. Pvd has successfully increased its share of hotel room availability in order to attract bigger and better conventions. Hopefully, with the renovations to the Dunk, it too will increase the amount of performances that are held there. It is for this reason that I think this building would benefit from attracting recognizable establishments so that people don't need to cross the Skywalk and never physically set foot in the city.

[basachs]

Although interesting, this is really off topic and should be spun out of the Fogarty thread...

[Liamlunchtray]

Did the fast food chains not make it here because of profitability or because the rent skyrocketed enough where it ate at their profit margins substantially?

[basachs]

I think we need a Bojangles..preferably in the lobby of the new W.

[Garris]

I don't think that chains will in any way dilute Providence's wonderfull restuarant scene.

[JimmyGreaves]

The issue from the perspective of developing the 22,000 square feet of retail space at 111 Fountain Street is finding out what the highest and best use of this space is. I feel the needs of tourists must be balanced with the need to develop Downcity into a highly-utilized mixed use "neighborhood". Supposedly, much work and research has been done towards gathering data on what businesses Downcity can support. Downcity's compact size should mean that locating a retail space on Fountain Street that provides a utilitarian benefit to residents on Westminster, Washington Street or other streets that are blocks away, for example, should not be an issue. My point is, the developer and city should work together so that all possible uses for this space are explored and neighborhood utilitarian uses are not discounted.

[CtownMikey]

Would a small market be a better fit here? Or are we waiting for E&B

[Lone Ranger]

The issue from the perspective of developing the 22,000 square feet of retail space at 111 Fountain Street is finding out what the highest and best use of this space is. I feel the needs of tourists must be balanced with the need to develop Downcity into a highly-utilized mixed use "neighborhood". Supposedly, much work and research has been done towards gathering data on what businesses Downcity can support. Downcity's compact size should mean that locating a retail space on Fountain Street that provides a utilitarian benefit to residents on Westminster, Washington Street or other streets that are blocks away, for example, should not be an issue. My point is, the developer and city should work together so that all possible uses for this space are explored and neighborhood utilitarian uses are not discounted.