Charlotte Greenways and Trails

[CLT2014]

12 minutes ago, InSouthPark said:

The latest greenway extension (51 to Johnson Rd) is officially "underway".  This will connect multiple apartments neighborhoods to the McMullen greenway.   It will also provide easy grocery store access to not only Lidl but to the new Publix under construction.  There has also been a bevy of re-zoning in the immediate area around Carmel Commons (including multi-family) which will all have access to the extension.  A GC has been selected (Eagle Wood). Visible construction is supposed to be by EOY.  18-24 month construction time line (for 1 mile?!).

Will also include a new parking lot on 51 (but no bathroom facility due to the flooding risk). 

Re: Flood risk. McMullen Creek and Four Mile Creek greenways have areas that seem to always be muddy and being reclaimed by the creek from flooding. The I-485 underpass near Tannehill Ct is caked in 2 - 3 inches of mud the entire underpass length. 

[InSouthPark]

1 hour ago, CLT2014 said:

There were cars parked there so much I figured they owned that land. If they don't, I'm glad you did something about it! It looked like it was usually employees forced to park off property for busy days for members like weddings or hot summer days with high pool usage. 

I wonder who put the gravel in there and why there is a little driveway. 

Nope, they don't own anything beyond the tree line.  The country club put the gravel there in the past couple years.  Used to be all grass except for a small area that AT&T used as a pseudo driveway to access their equipment (which is why there is a cutout in the curb). 

It looked SO TRASHY just having cars all lined up parked in the grass / gravel.  I live a mile away and saw it every day and it finally got under my skin enough to do something about it (emailed ALL the city zoning / inspection bosses + the directors of the CC).   After the city did inform them that was not their property and in fact city right of way, they put up the chain across with a no parking sign.  

I can't park my car on the grass but the country club thought it was ok to use city property and park 40+ cars on a grass (without any screening) daily for years?   "Rules for thee, Not for me".  

Edit: Even it they did own the property, city ordinance says it must be screened. 

Here is a shot of what it looked like on a very very light parking day when I went to take pics.  Only 4-5 cars early morning.  By mid-afternoon there was always 20+ cars out here.

 

Edited August 7, 2023 by InSouthPark

[CLT2014]

18 minutes ago, InSouthPark said:

Nope, they don't own anything beyond the tree line.  The country club put the gravel there in the past couple years.  Used to be all grass except for a small area that AT&T used as a pseudo driveway to access their equipment (which is why there is a cutout in the curb). 

It looked SO TRASHY just having cars all lined up parked in the grass / gravel.  I live a mile away and saw it every day and it finally got under my skin enough to do something about it (emailed ALL the city zoning / inspection bosses + the directors of the CC).   After the city did inform them that was not their property and in fact city right of way, they put up the chain across with a no parking sign.  

I can't park my car on the grass but the country club thought it was ok to use city property and park 40+ cars on a grass (without any screening) daily for years?   "Rules for thee, Not for me".  

NICE. They are sitting on plenty of land if they have a parking problem. Just lose a hole if it is that important. 

It is insane Carmel Country Club was only appraised at $17 million total for 382 acres of land + structures. That's $44,502 an acre.... which is basically impossible to find in Charlotte. 1 acre properties in the outskirts of Indian Trail even are $125,000+. While working class residents are paying $500+ more annually in property tax, a country club on land that could house thousands of people is appraised at roughly the same amount as 11 $1.5 million homes of club members. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by CLT2014

[Matthew.Brendan]

lol, looks like a perfect impromptu parking lot to me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[InSouthPark]

4 minutes ago, Matthew.Brendan said:

lol, looks like a perfect impromptu parking lot to me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

What it used to look like before it was a 3+ year impromptu parking lot.

[Windsurfer]

I hope these pics  from London aren't out of line.  I was thinking they might be inspiring as far as thinking about greenways, especially along creeks and river. (I'm actually remembering the creek near UNCC)

[KJHburg]

Little Sugar Creek Greenway section from Brandywine to Park Rd.  I had been on it before completed but this is first time of the long bridge that reminds me of the Linn Cove Viaduct.  This was fairly busy section.   Notice a few lane markings the kind they put on every greenway in the Raleigh area.   Also notice this area floods a lot and did so recently from the debris visible and the sand and mud recently cleaned up.  

[KJHburg]

Still the Year of the Trail here in NC the great trails state.

https://greattrailsnc.com/

Few new ones I have been on this summer here in NC 

Balsam Nature Trail atop Mt Mitchell.  52 degrees mountain inside a cloud over 6500 feet on an August morning.  Only about 1 mile roundtrip and that  is if you go the top observation area.  Through a spruce and balsam fir forest.   From here you can hike down Mt Mitchell to the Black Mtn Campground (I drove down and saw the 2 nearby falls Setrock Falls and Roaring  Fork trails both falls about 1 mile roundtrip.   All just less than 2.5 hour drive from uptown Charlotte! 

 

[Windsurfer]

Beautiful photos!  Too bad our greenways have to be so narrow. If they were a little wider the trail wouldn't be washed over so frequently by the rising creeks.

[KJHburg]

4 hours ago, Windsurfer said:

Beautiful photos!  Too bad our greenways have to be so narrow. If they were a little wider the trail wouldn't be washed over so frequently by the rising creeks.

Our greenways are paved pretty wide.  those mountain trails are narrower of course.  Most of our greenways don't flood frequently only a few mainly intown where the right of ways are narrower do they flood more like near Park Road and under bridges many times under highways like Mallard Creek greenway under Hwy 29 and I-85.  

[CLT2014]

32 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

Our greenways are paved pretty wide.  those mountain trails are narrower of course.  Most of our greenways don't flood frequently only a few mainly intown where the right of ways are narrower do they flood more like near Park Road and under bridges many times under highways like Mallard Creek greenway under Hwy 29 and I-85.  

McMullen and McAlpine Creek greenways near 485 are also frequently flooded or muddy. The 485 underpass for McAlpine right near the Ballantyne Corporate Park is covered in 2 inches of mud at this point and being reclaimed by the creek. It has split the greenway in half for anybody that doesn't want to get covered in mud. 

[InSouthPark]

29 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

McMullen and McAlpine Creek greenways near 485 are also frequently flooded or muddy. The 485 underpass for McAlpine right near the Ballantyne Corporate Park is covered in 2 inches of mud at this point and being reclaimed by the creek. It has split the greenway in half for anybody that doesn't want to get covered in mud. 

That has always been a mess and the 485 expansion at the bridge has made it worse.  I doubt we see any improvements done until the 485 construction is complete and ballantyne greenway connection finished.  But they need to do something. I have been running that greenway for 15 years and the low spots have gotten worse, either from increased runoff or the heavy equipment sinking the pavement (or both).

[Nathan2]

36 minutes ago, InSouthPark said:

That has always been a mess and the 485 expansion at the bridge has made it worse.  I doubt we see any improvements done until the 485 construction is complete and ballantyne greenway connection finished.  But they need to do something. I have been running that greenway for 15 years and the low spots have gotten worse, either from increased runoff or the heavy equipment sinking the pavement (or both).

They definitely need to get serious about making sure the greenways are clear of mud. I have seen some people get seriously hurt biking through some of the muddy sections. It is also a deterrence to people who use the greenway to commute or go to the grocery store, no one wants to show up to a store, work, or home completely covered in mud. These sections have been covered almost continuously this entire summer. 

[InSouthPark]

6 minutes ago, Nathan2 said:

They definitely need to get serious about making sure the greenways are clear of mud. I have seen some people get seriously hurt biking through some of the muddy sections. It is also a deterrence to people who use the greenway to commute or go to the grocery store, no one wants to show up to a store, work, or home completely covered in mud. These sections have been covered almost continuously this entire summer. 

I have hurt myself running in mud there.  It's slick as s**t and no way around it. McMullen has always been the worst for this. Between the low spots and the flooded raised wood sections...ugh.  In their defense, they have seen their errors and have eliminated the raised wood sections from new construction.  All the new raised sections are now concrete (at least the walking surface).  

[KJHburg]

Well what would be the solution that is can be done feasibly in these areas under major highways with creeks?  Unfortunately a bypass is not feasible like can be done on city streets.  Unfortunately mud will be problem anywhere there is low area like this and I have seen this on greenways everywhere.  Most of the new stretches are far enough from the creeks but sometimes that is not possible.  I don't like walking through it anymore than you don't like riding through it.  But in floodplains this is going to happen I guess is how quick do they clean it up.  The next day or does it stay for days?  On the Mallard Creek greenway where this happens I usually see it done 1 day after a big rain with flooding. 

[Nathan2]

56 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

Well what would be the solution that is can be done feasibly in these areas under major highways with creeks?  Unfortunately a bypass is not feasible like can be done on city streets.  Unfortunately mud will be problem anywhere there is low area like this and I have seen this on greenways everywhere.  Most of the new stretches are far enough from the creeks but sometimes that is not possible.  I don't like walking through it anymore than you don't like riding through it.  But in floodplains this is going to happen I guess is how quick do they clean it up.  The next day or does it stay for days?  On the Mallard Creek greenway where this happens I usually see it done 1 day after a big rain with flooding. 

Mud on the little sugar creek seems to never go away. I have seen issues on the new section near the south carolina state line where it is out of the floodplain.  

[Windsurfer]

6 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Our greenways are paved pretty wide.  those mountain trails are narrower of course.  Most of our greenways don't flood frequently only a few mainly intown where the right of ways are narrower do they flood more like near Park Road and under bridges many times under highways like Mallard Creek greenway under Hwy 29 and I-85.  

I'm referring to the width of the entire greenway, not the paved portion.  If the entire width were wider, the paved portion could be higher, or, as in the case of much of London's, gravel instead of impermeable surface.

[KJHburg]

4 hours ago, Windsurfer said:

I'm referring to the width of the entire greenway, not the paved portion.  If the entire width were wider, the paved portion could be higher, or, as in the case of much of London's, gravel instead of impermeable surface.

in some areas especially newer sections that is possible and has happened.  But some of these in town missing links has to follow very close to the creek thus the flooding issues there is just not enough land to have a wide right of way for the greenways.  But the newer sections of lower Little Sugar Creek greenway have very wide areas.  

[Windsurfer]

7 hours ago, KJHburg said:

in some areas especially newer sections that is possible and has happened.  But some of these in town missing links has to follow very close to the creek thus the flooding issues there is just not enough land to have a wide right of way for the greenways.  But the newer sections of lower Little Sugar Creek greenway have very wide areas.  

yep

[Professor]

On 8/10/2023 at 8:26 AM, Windsurfer said:

I hope these pics  from London aren't out of line.  I was thinking they might be inspiring as far as thinking about greenways, especially along creeks and river. (I'm actually remembering the creek near UNCC)

 

[Professor]

It would be very helpful to know  where we could build a London type canal in Charlotte. I would like to see a Camden Market or Battersea like fun park on the Charlotte Canal.  I imagine in a few years, the canal could be a huge, as in the photo, and full of supply barges replacing gas guzzling trucks or lorries as they say in jolly ole England. I can see countless Amazon barges. Maybe Biden will help fund the canal. 

[Windsurfer]

10 minutes ago, Larry Singer said:

It would be very helpful to know  where we could build a London type canal in Charlotte. I would like to see a Camden Market or Battersea like fun park on the Charlotte Canal.  I imagine in a few years, the canal could be a huge, as in the photo, and full of supply barges replacing gas guzzling trucks or lorries as they say in jolly ole England. I can see countless Amazon barges. Maybe Biden will help fund the canal. 

I've mentioned it before, and perhaps you're old enough to remember as well, there was an effort in the mid 70s to dam up Sugar Creek just below Freedom Park. This would've created a canal several miles long.  I'm guessing the hospital and other powers-that-be didn't like that idea.

[KJHburg]

from the city on greenway projects some I knew about others not:

https://www.charlottenc.gov/Growth-and-Development/Projects/Uptown-CycleLink/Belk-Greenway-Connector  near uptown midtown 

https://www.charlottenc.gov/Growth-and-Development/Projects/XCLT/XCLT-Mallard-Creek-Pavilion  university area

https://www.charlottenc.gov/Growth-and-Development/Projects/XCLT/XCLT-Pavilion-Kempsford  university area continues trail from the one above mentioned

https://www.charlottenc.gov/Growth-and-Development/Projects/XCLT/XCLT-Matheson-to-Craighead  Villa Height and NoDa 

https://www.charlottenc.gov/Growth-and-Development/Projects/XCLT/XCLTCraighead-to-Tryon  Sugar Creek station area to Hidden Valley 

 

https://www.charlottenc.gov/Growth-and-Development/Projects/XCLT/XCLTCraighead-to-Tryon   Craighead to Tryon XCLT trail 

https://www.charlottenc.gov/Growth-and-Development/Projects/XCLT/XCLT-Orr-to-RRRW  XCLT trail to connect to existing Toby Creek greenway 

This is all exciting and I hope these all keep moving 

https://www.charlottenc.gov/Growth-and-Development/Projects/type/Trails-Paths-and-Bike-Lanes

[Professor]

21 hours ago, KJHburg said:

from the city on greenway projects some I knew about others not:

https://www.charlottenc.gov/Growth-and-Development/Projects/Uptown-CycleLink/Belk-Greenway-Connector  near uptown midtown 

https://www.charlottenc.gov/Growth-and-Development/Projects/XCLT/XCLT-Mallard-Creek-Pavilion  university area

https://www.charlottenc.gov/Growth-and-Development/Projects/XCLT/XCLT-Pavilion-Kempsford  university area continues trail from the one above mentioned

https://www.charlottenc.gov/Growth-and-Development/Projects/XCLT/XCLT-Matheson-to-Craighead  Villa Height and NoDa 

https://www.charlottenc.gov/Growth-and-Development/Projects/XCLT/XCLTCraighead-to-Tryon  Sugar Creek station area to Hidden Valley 

 

https://www.charlottenc.gov/Growth-and-Development/Projects/XCLT/XCLTCraighead-to-Tryon   Craighead to Tryon XCLT trail 

https://www.charlottenc.gov/Growth-and-Development/Projects/XCLT/XCLT-Orr-to-RRRW  XCLT trail to connect to existing Toby Creek greenway 

This is all exciting and I hope these all keep moving 

https://www.charlottenc.gov/Growth-and-Development/Projects/type/Trails-Paths-and-Bike-Lanes

I remember John Belk pushing the San Antonio like canal. I thought it was a wonderful idea. My ex-wife was a buyer for a period in those days (before I moved back to London).  I remember running into Mayor Belk  who was alone walking down a sidewalk and discussing the project with him. What a great guy he seemed to be.  By the way, I 'm talking about 1969-1970. 

 

23 hours ago, Windsurfer said:

I've mentioned it before, and perhaps you're old enough to remember as well, there was an effort in the mid 70s to dam up Sugar Creek just below Freedom Park. This would've created a canal several miles long.  I'm guessing the hospital and other powers-that-be didn't like that idea.

Yes, I do remember and thought it was a wonderful idea although I was too young to see any issues. 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Larry Singer

[Windsurfer]

1 hour ago, Larry Singer said:

I remember John Belk pushing the San Antonio like canal. I thought it was a wonderful idea. My ex-wife was a buyer for a period in those days (before I moved back to London).  I remember running into Mayor Belk  who was alone walking down a sidewalk and discussing the project with him. What a great guy he seemed to be.  By the way, I 'm talking about 1969-1970. 

 

Yes, I do remember and thought it was a wonderful idea although I was too young to see any issues. 

Belk, Rolf Neil, McColl ,etc..... all those guys had plans. For better or worse. Remember how their group used to meet once a week to plan out Charlotte's future?

Your name sounds so familiar. I'm sure we crossed paths....so to speak. I graduated from Carmel Academy in '77