COMPLETE: GTECH Center

[matt]

On the bus today, about five people were complaining about GTECH and the Waterplace Condos being built.    They were saying "it's supposed to be Waterplace PARK, not condos!"  It took all I had not to tell them to shut up...  Apparently some people think huge piles of dirt and overgrown grass downtown is better than buildings...

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I admit that I was of the opinion,too, that the GTECH site should remain green space. But I don't mind saying that after spending a few months on UP, you folks have changed my opinion about the city's development, and gotten me excited for the future of our city!

You make some excellent points about these grassy areas never really being parks, maintained, or even used as such. This is a city, not a suburb.

I do enjoy Station Park and India Point Park. Which one is Burnside?

[Frankie811]

I remember!!  And you are definatly right.

All thoses cinics predicted that the convention center would not only fail, but was really an excuse for the State to build a casino behind the peoples back.  Remember the rumour that it was really designed as a casino and was built with an extreme number of power outlets (supposedly to support all the slot machines).

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Ha ha ha yes I remember that.

[Magellan98]

I didn't think this was real until recently.  I've met lots of folks from all over RI who are still shocked at the idea that anyone would go to Providence for anything...  I know a guy in his 30's who lives in Boston and is from North Kingston who says that, still, whenever his family in N. Kingston wants, "a great meal or a good show" they go to NYC (!!!???!!!).  When I suggested PPAC, Federal Hill, etc, etc, he almost laughed...  I asked why not at least Boston or New Haven?  He gave me this knowing, "give me a break" look.  Amazing, huh?  That attitude is also why all the suburbs in an hour radius from NYC will always suck...

- Garris

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As a resident of those NYC suburbs I have to agree with you 100%!!! I can't tell you how many people I know who claim you can only get the best haircut, pizza, - you name it - in NYC. These people think they are the trendy, cutting edge types who are too cool for words. But in reality many are posers, looking for some warped sense of validation.

While in college in Philadelphia I ran into a lot of this mentality. Everyone would talk up NYC and how great it was - calling it a real city while insulting Philly ever chance they could. But these people never really gave the city a chance. When it came time to walk the walk rather than just talk the talk I moved downtown while everyone else stayed within the safe confines of campus. I tried as hard as I could to really experience the city and I left very few stones unturned. I look back and feel bad - both for these people because they really missed out on so much - and the city, because it really has an undeserved bad rep. I'd hate for Providence to follow a similar path with NYC and Boston as two more monkeys on an already crowded back.

The real cutting edge places to live in my opinion are cities such as Providence, which are reinventing themselves - cities where people (like those of us on this forum) have the chance to be urban "pioneers", actively shaping the physical and social development of a blossoming community.

The truly avante guarde, creative minds that I respect most are those willing to take a risk on a place like Philly or Providence and place their stamp on America

[Recchia]

I do enjoy Station Park and India Point Park.  Which one is Burnside?

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Burnsides the one adjacent to Kennedy Plaza. I enjoy Station Park only when theres an event in it.

P.S. Garris- your earlier question on where we're from: I grew up in Warwick off of Warwick Ave-technically a suburb but not by today's standards. Our house was on a <5,000 sq. foot lot and the streets actually form blocks up that end. Unfortunately my parents moved to North Kingstown to a subdivision, though its not one of those cookie cutter cul-de-sac large lot ones, so I can't complain too much. And we're still near a busline.

[Garris]

The suburbs are much more congested than Providence. Take a ride oin Route 1 or Route 2, or any route for that matter.

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Isn't that true... Most suburbs I'm aware of have traffic that would put Providence to shame. Serves them right...

- Garris

[CtownMikey]

yea.. congested with cheap walmarters..

[Frankie811]

Isn't that true...  Most suburbs I'm aware of have traffic that would put Providence to shame.  Serves them right...

- Garris

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I must assume were not talking about RT's 95 & 195! Otherwise................

[Recchia]

I must assume were not talking about RT's 95 & 195! Otherwise................

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95 and 195 are horribly congested in Providence, but its because of commuters from the suburbs.

[Frankie811]

95 and 195 are horribly congested in Providence, but its because of commuters from the suburbs.

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I can recall a journal article which stated that RT 95 through Providence had more traffic than the central artiry through Boston.

[pdxstreetcar]

Burnsides the one adjacent to Kennedy Plaza.

Am I right in thinking that wierd people hang out in Burnside Park? I was just walking by and there was some guy really pissed and spouting off then smashed a brick on the ground.

[Recchia]

Am I right in thinking that wierd people hang out in Burnside Park? I was just walking by and there was some guy really pissed and spouting off then smashed a brick on the ground.

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I think its the whole Kennedy Plaza area in general. I'm quite entertained on a daily basis by people around there. It makes my time waitin for the bus very interesting. Whether its people selling bootleg RIPTIK's, fighting, yelling at bus drivers, or of course the patented ten minute story about someone's need to go see their daughter and could they please have money for the bus, followed by you taking out your wallet and them grabbin it out of your hand and running.....always a good social experience around there, and I don't mean that sarcastically, it really is entertaining.

Okay, now that I'm off topic, I have a relative question: Where is the entrance to the GTECH parking garage goin to be, Memorial, Francis, or both?

[Cotuit]

Where is the entrance to the GTECH parking garage goin to be, Memorial, Francis, or both?

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Francis, right across from the mall loading dock entrance. You can see in the steel going up how some of it is sloped for the floor of the garage. The garage will sit above the first floor and be several levels. There will be a walkway from the corner at Francis and Memorial sloping down to the river. There will be a bridge over this walkway for access to the garage.

The garage is inside that bit that is faced with metal.

[Garris]

I must assume were not talking about RT's 95 & 195! Otherwise................

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Forget 95 and 195... The traffic there is small potatos compared to the traffic on Rt 2 in RI, Rt 22 and Rt 6 in Putnam County NY during rush hour, or the traffic in the burbs immediately surrounding NYC... It only takes a few minutes to deal with 195 and 95... The other above routes can strand you for 30-1 hr nearly stopped in place...

- Garris

[Garris]

Francis, right across from the mall loading dock entrance. You can see in the steel going up how some of it is sloped for the floor of the garage. The garage will sit above the first floor and be several levels. There will be a walkway from the corner at Francis and Memorial sloping down to the river. There will be a bridge over this walkway for access to the garage.

The garage is inside that bit that is faced with metal.

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I drove by the GTech site today, and I have to say, it's quite impressive, even now! The buildings flanking Waterplace (GTech and the condos) will make the park even that much more impressive. Having a landscaped, developed waterway amongst the urban canyons will look 100% more impressive than the basin sitting in the middle of a large field.

- Garris

[gregw]

Definitely agree with these points. The suburban mentality is hard to break as is a certain flawed environmentalism that views urban density negatively even though density is far better from an environmental point of view than sprawl. Myself, born in Staten Island NY, grew up in Cambridge Mass (close to Porter Sq.) and Providence (East Side).

Again, this is a phenomenon I don't fully understand.  There are a lot of people, many of whom actually live in cities, who don't like cities and have a very suburban mindset. 

This was a huge problem where I lived before, in Rochester, Minnesota (pop of about 80,000).  My theory was many of the people living in and around Rochester were from tiny, small town, bumble-f*** Minnesota and were drawn there for school or work.  They often wished Rochester were more like their home town of 800 than a city of 80,000. 

I think we have the same problem here.  Many of our denizens probably grew up in suburbs, and while drawn to Providence for a myriad of reasons, it's easier to take a person out the 'burbs than take the 'burbs out of the person.  Some residual suburban sensibility remains. 

My girlfriend is even a good example.  She's from a college town in Western Mass, and while she loves Providence's neighborhoods (which are about as urban feeling as the Main St in the town she came from), she's not as crazy about the "canyon-like" Downcity.  Even when living in bigger cities (Boston, Newark), she always lived in Wayland Sq like fringes.  She's also somewhat against building height as well, so I'm fighting this battle at home too .  An environmentalist, I'm trying to convince her that density is more environmentally friendly (somewhat unsuccessfully so far).

Also, I think the planners made a big mistake calling Waterplace a "park" rather than a "walk."  The park name, plus years of greening, has lead people to the eronious impression that intended green space is being taken away from the public and being given to developers.  I've heard things referred to in this fashion by many people.  I've corrected them, saying that the building was intended all along.  So, Recchia, don't hesitate to correct the folks on the bus! 

- Garris

PS: Out of curiosity, what type of settings are we all from?  I bet few of us are actually from cities.  Myself, I'm from a town of about 8,000 total (county 70,000) in NY's Hudson Valley that's "sub-rural" (my term...  A rustic, woodsy area that's becoming more suburban).  The rest of you?

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[Mij]

I can recall a journal article which stated that RT 95 through Providence had more traffic than the central artiry through Boston.

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I drive from 195 to 95 then to 295 every day, i hate the section where 195 connects into 95 north. You figure first you have all the downtown traffic getting off exit 24 (i think it 24) then the mall traffic, rt.6 rt 10 traffic, and not even a mile away you have the 146 merge tough traffic through this corridor. I hope the relocation of 195 really relives soem of this strees

[Baines]

I drive from 195 to 95 then to 295 every day, i hate the section where 195 connects into 95 north. You figure first you have all the downtown traffic getting off exit 24 (i think it 24) then the mall traffic, rt.6 rt 10 traffic, and not even a mile away you have the 146 merge tough traffic through this corridor. I hope the relocation of 195 really relives soem of this strees

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Providence's Route 95 /Route 195 intersection is the 14th busiest in the nation...Boston has none on the top 20.

[Recchia]

Providence's Route 95 /Route 195 intersection is the 14th busiest in the nation...Boston has none on the top 20.

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Baines where did you find this info? I was on the hunt for freeway traffic stats a few weeks ago and couldn't find any useful ones.

[Baines]

Baines where did you find this info? I was on the hunt for freeway traffic stats a few weeks ago and couldn't find any useful ones.

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I have the information at work and will get it tommorow but one source is

http://highways.org .

[Recchia]

Baines- thanks for the link. Providence is up there with some traffic greats like LA and Atlanta, I'm surprised.

[Garris]

Baines- thanks for the link.  Providence is up there with some traffic greats like LA and Atlanta, I'm surprised.

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The American Highway Users Alliance? "Support our highways?" Ugh... Anyway, I'm still surprised. Having suffered the indignities of New York, Boston, and Minneapolis highway traffic amongst others, I don't think Providence is nearly as bad as the above cities.

- Garris

[Recchia]

The American Highway Users Alliance?  "Support our highways?"  Ugh...

- Garris

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Yep, it amazes me that there's still people out to improve highways/build more, as solutions to congestion. C'mon, isn't triple convergence a well known idea nowadays?? There's only so many ways to improve a system that inherently sucks--it's like fighting obesity by making low fat/low carb junk food, instead of promoting eating naturally healthy foods to begin with...or something, I dont know.

[Cotuit]

The American Highway Users Alliance?  "Support our highways?"  Ugh...  Anyway, I'm still surprised.  Having suffered the indignities of New York, Boston, and Minneapolis highway traffic amongst others, I don't think Providence is nearly as bad as the above cities. 

- Garris

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New York and Boston have heavy traffic spread over a much wider area. There may not be anywhere in either of those cities that is as congested as 195/95 in Providence, but Providence only has that one choke point, Boston and New York have many choke points. In Providence we have heavy traffic from the S-curve in Pawtucket to the Thurbers curve, and 195 into the East Bay, and some congestion on 6/10. That's a really small area though, and once you're through them, it's pretty smooth sailing.

[Baines]

New York and Boston have heavy traffic spread over a much wider area. There may not be anywhere in either of those cities that is as congested as 195/95 in Providence, but Providence only has that one choke point, Boston and New York have many choke points. In Providence we have heavy traffic from the S-curve in Pawtucket to the Thurbers curve, and 195 into the East Bay, and some congestion on 6/10. That's a really small area though, and once you're through them, it's pretty smooth sailing.

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Hi guys-

Here is the link with the listing...hope it works

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0931285.html

[CtownMikey]

lets say that for whatever reason.. maybe a month or so down the line, that Gtech decides to add a floor or 2... is that in anyways feasible?? For some reason I really think it needs to be taller now