CanalSide

[CorgiMatt]

They were to come back to DDRC with some tweaking on the design.

They were to come back to DDRC with some tweaking on the design. I saw it on channel 2. One board member made it a point that all edifices are to be pleasing to look at from all sides.

[lucjanrc]

Why did phase two construction never start?

[CorgiMatt]

Why did phase two construction never start?

I don't know, but I meant to post on this last weekend. Last Sunday there was a construction headquarters trailer on the site with a hard hat sign and bulldozers.

[lucjanrc]

Thats a good sign.

[carolinagarnet]

I was not very familiar with the plans for Canal Side, but it looks incredible. This should help with the city's push to reclaim the river.

[lucjanrc]

If they really are moving forward with phase two, are they going to build phase 2A and 2B together or separately?.

[GvilleSC]

I hope greater critical mass near the river will push the City to make some changes to Huger. It's a pretty major mental and physical barrier. Not compared to Assembly, granted, but for a South Carolina metropolitan area, it is-- especially at the speeds that people travel down that road.

[CorgiMatt]

I hope greater critical mass near the river will push the City to make some changes to Huger. It's a pretty major mental and physical barrier. Not compared to Assembly, granted, but for a South Carolina metropolitan area, it is-- especially at the speeds that people travel down that road.

Actually it's more of a psychological barrier because it's not as developed as Assembly. While it will be great to have more people living at Canal Side, it will be a while before 'critical mass' in the area in general reaches a point at which there's a continual flow of pedestrians to and from that area and the entertainment areas of the Vista. These things take time.

[GvilleSC]

Actually it's more of a psychological barrier because it's not as developed as Assembly. While it will be great to have more people living at Canal Side, it will be a while before 'critical mass' in the area in general reaches a point at which there's a continual flow of pedestrians to and from that area and the entertainment areas of the Vista. These things take time.

They certainly do take time, and more development will definitely help. Like developments, Assembly's make-over will take a good long while, but it's my hope that Huger might follow.

[krazeeboi]

I know at one point, Coble talked about remaking Huger and I do agree that it needs to serve as more of a connective link between the heart of the Vista and the river. The Kline Steel project would have probably helped with that.

[growingup15]

I know at one point, Coble talked about remaking Huger and I do agree that it needs to serve as more of a connective link between the heart of the Vista and the river. The Kline Steel project would have probably helped with that.

Mayor coble told me personally that he hopes to see huger street lined up with mid to high-rise businesses mix used and residential buildings in the next 5-10 years.

he told me that hes hopeing to see the riverfront in general lined up kinda like a beachfront with apartments mixed used stores and hotels.

[carolinagarnet]

Huger right now is used as a fast track through downtown, much like Assembly and Bull Streets. I am all for making it more walkable, but the issue with some of the proposals for Assembly Street, for instance, is that narrowing the roads means that either drivers will find another bypass road or avoid driving through downtown. Commuters in particular tend not to like driving through areas with lower speed limits, which you so often find on narrower streets. I think it is unnecessary to have three of these arteries in downtown Columbia, but narrowing Assembly would undoubtedly increase traffic on Huger and Bull Streets.

I almost think it would help to focus development further in the core of downtown, especially where the surface lots are currently, and leave Bull and Huger Streets as bypass roads. This is not the ideal in urban planning, but this seems like a good way to relieve traffic on Assembly Street while Columbia works toward building the critical mass of residents that would allow them to address the bypass streets without killing traffic downtown.

[growingup15]

Huger right now is used as a fast track through downtown, much like Assembly and Bull Streets. I am all for making it more walkable, but the issue with some of the proposals for Assembly Street, for instance, is that narrowing the roads means that either drivers will find another bypass road or avoid driving through downtown. Commuters in particular tend not to like driving through areas with lower speed limits, which you so often find on narrower streets. I think it is unnecessary to have three of these arteries in downtown Columbia, but narrowing Assembly would undoubtedly increase traffic on Huger and Bull Streets.

I almost think it would help to focus development further in the core of downtown, especially where the surface lots are currently, and leave Bull and Huger Streets as bypass roads. This is not the ideal in urban planning, but this seems like a good way to relieve traffic on Assembly Street while Columbia works toward building the critical mass of residents that would allow them to address the bypass streets without killing traffic downtown.

i do travel down Huger st at around 50 sometimes. The City, SCDOT and CMCOG was thinking of putting my Freeway idea into a simulator and add a 25 cent toll to it and see if it would be a good idea for a highway running straight through down. maybe it can be something to relieve some traffic off of Huger and downtown in general. but I think this subject about roads should be directed to the Roads thread.

[krazeeboi]

Huger right now is used as a fast track through downtown, much like Assembly and Bull Streets. I am all for making it more walkable, but the issue with some of the proposals for Assembly Street, for instance, is that narrowing the roads means that either drivers will find another bypass road or avoid driving through downtown. Commuters in particular tend not to like driving through areas with lower speed limits, which you so often find on narrower streets. I think it is unnecessary to have three of these arteries in downtown Columbia, but narrowing Assembly would undoubtedly increase traffic on Huger and Bull Streets.

I almost think it would help to focus development further in the core of downtown, especially where the surface lots are currently, and leave Bull and Huger Streets as bypass roads. This is not the ideal in urban planning, but this seems like a good way to relieve traffic on Assembly Street while Columbia works toward building the critical mass of residents that would allow them to address the bypass streets without killing traffic downtown.

As is, Assembly is built to handle way more cars than it currently does, so narrowing it won't worsen traffic. And it will be a good thing to have traffic dispersed throughout the other roads downtown, which is the purpose of a generous grid system like Columbia has. The only reasons I'm not in favor of leaving Huger and Bull as is are 1) Huger is the critical connector between the Vista and the river and 2) the Bull Street campus's connectivity to the rest of downtown will depend on a more walkable Bull Street.

[growingup15]

As is, Assembly is built to handle way more cars than it currently does, so narrowing it won't worsen traffic. And it will be a good thing to have traffic dispersed throughout the other roads downtown, which is the purpose of a generous grid system like Columbia has. The only reasons I'm not in favor of leaving Huger and Bull as is are 1) Huger is the critical connector between the Vista and the river and 2) the Bull Street campus's connectivity to the rest of downtown will depend on a more walkable Bull Street.

Really lately I've been seeing some big jams starting to happen on Assembly St now. I don't know why but lately its just been quite busy on Assembly.

My question is once they narrow assembly and say like 10-20 years from now assembly becomes a hot spot with people and cars everywhere. and the road quickly goes from like 25,000 cars a day to like 40,000 cars a day. how would it handle the huge flow? will they just make the road bigger again or will they try to find other ways of making traffic flow better?

Edited April 19, 2012 by growingup15

[carolinagarnet]

Traffic on Assembly is hugely different depending on which segment we are talking about. Excluding game days, when Assembly turns into a parking lot south of Gervais, daytime traffic between Gervais and Blossom can be pretty heavy. The proposals for Assembly seem to involve taking away the center street parking and should not restrict traffic flow more than it does now. Growingup15's post about more development around Main Street, the Vista, and Innovista raises an interesting point: if traffic gets heavier in downtown, will commuters become frustrated with the slow traffic in the city? Since residential development seems to be developing at a tepid pace, it seems likely that further commercial and academic developments in downtown will not correspond directly to residential developments and traffic will get worse. Add to that the fact that Columbia does not really have public transportation (especially with the bus system's issues) and it is hard to imagine that the city will be able to handle traffic without outer bypass roads.

I agree that Bull Street needs to become more walkable from USC to Elmwood, but I can't imagine that it will be easy considering that most of the development in the stretch is commercial (therefore not as safe at night) and there seems to be very little property that can realistically be redeveloped into bars, restaurants, or retail to encourage pedestrians. If you think about the plots that line Bull Street, most are pretty small and back into either housing or other small businesses. As far as Huger, I think it has the same effect on the walk to the river as Assembly has on USC and Innovista: it basically creates a barrier due to the size of the road. Traffic on Huger never really seems to be heavy, but I also don't know of any proposals to narrow the road. There is far more development potential on Huger and I can see the Vista expanding further down Gervais and in both directions on Huger, which may end up mitigating the mental block that it imposes.

Edited April 19, 2012 by carolinagarnet

[BrasilnSC]

Realistically, it's too late to build any kind of bypass through downtown Columbia, and I'm ok with that. The interstate loops work well and I don't want to see a highway running through the city.

While downtown traffic can get pretty bad (rush hour will be bad anywhere), our streets are more than adequate to handle it and Assembly Street plays a big part in that. I'm very much against narrowing Assembly from 6 to 4 lanes, which was suggested by the study done for the city. Doing so will only push traffic to Huger St which is even more of a barrier in my opinion (and from experience). Like Assembly, Huger Street is also 6 lanes but it lacks wide sidewalks and space for any median refuge. Huger Street is the one that needs to be narrowed.

As is, Assembly is too wide. There is so much width to play with on Assembly, that it can be pedestrian friendly and accommodate all of the traffic all while being city's grand boulevard. Get rid of median parking, remove ALL right turn lanes, narrow lanes to 11 feet, and construct bulb outs. That leaves 77 feet to cross with a large median refuge in between. That is about the same distance as crossings like Harden and Devine or Gervais and Lincoln. The narrower lanes will slow don't traffic and wider more visible crosswalk would make pedestrian feel safer. Keeping the existing capacity on Assembly will make narrowing Huger more realistic and help connect development along the river with the rest of the city. .

Edited April 20, 2012 by BrasilnSC

[CorgiMatt]

The very idea of a bypass running alongside downtown Columbia through the Vista is DOA. If travelers are in such a hurry that they can't stop and smell the roses with the Vista and Main Street's highrises in their direct view, let them go around as they do now, on the beltway.

[growingup15]

The very idea of a bypass running alongside downtown Columbia through the Vista is DOA. If travelers are in such a hurry that they can't stop and smell the roses with the Vista and Main Street's highrises in their direct view, let them go around as they do now, on the beltway.

Going back to my old idea of the Freeway running straight through downtown actually caught the attention of SCDOT and CMCOG when i presented it to them last year.

here's the pictures of my recent designs>

Heres where the freeway will begin

Here where it will run parallel to assembly st near the fairgrounds.

Then straight through the vista.

and finally ending up at I-126 which will continue following the tracks until it runs into 277 over main st.

heres the Connector

SCDOT and CMCOG was thinking about making my ideas into Tollroads. at first liked that idea but then i thought that south Carolinians will find a way around the tollroads and make the whole project useless. But think about this. this may not be now but in the next 10-15 years planning this would be a great let out and bypass through downtown once we really start to get development going.

Edited April 20, 2012 by growingup15

[krazeeboi]

Growingup15, this is one of the worst ideas EVER and it would kill downtown.

[growingup15]

Growingup15, this is one of the worst ideas EVER and it would kill downtown.

It's one of the best ideas ever and the city agrees.

[growingup15]

Growingup15, this is one of the worst ideas EVER and it would kill downtown.

With every new highway brings economic growth. your just one of those people doesn't see the real achivements for Columbia and it's future. also probably dont wanna see change. if it caught the attention of SCDOT & CMCOG then its worth something.

But, if your so much saying its a bad idea whats your hhmm?

also lets bring this discussion to the Roads page not Canalside please.

[CarolinaCrown]

Growingup15, learn from Charlotte's 277 mistake although its a great people mover, an interstate right through the heart of the city is nonsensical and a guaranteed neighborhood killer. What is this the 1980's?

[SCxpBrussel]

The absolute last thing Columbia needs is increased road capacity downtown, particularly a freeway. Like CarolinaCrown suggested, the era of major freeway construction in urban centers is (or at least should be) over. I also think this topic is appropriate in the CanalSide forum because if a freeway slices through downtown, CanalSide would become a wasteland. The type of people attracted to CanalSide are not going to want a noisy, polluting freeway in their front yard. In fact, few people who have an option would choose that.

[krazeeboi]

It's one of the best ideas ever and the city agrees.

No they don't. It would be a done deal or at least in the works if they did.

With every new highway brings economic growth. your just one of those people doesn't see the real achivements for Columbia and it's future. also probably dont wanna see change. if it caught the attention of SCDOT & CMCOG then its worth something.

Facilitating the destruction of the urban core with a new freeway barreling through downtown does not represent "economic growth" or "real achievements." I want to see change, but positive change. This freeway idea is NOT an example of positive change.

Read up a little bit on the issue. Start here.