major hotel in the works for downtown Greensboro

[cityboi]

Dennis Quaintance and Mike Weaver, owners of the O'Henry and Proximity hotels are filing a law suit to invalidate the financing of the proposed downtown hotel. Their reasoning? They don't think the hotel is viable. They have even set up a website. They realize this hotel will get the financing and now they are in panic mode. No judge would rule in their favor because the motive would be to stop competition from hurting their business. Its the ultimate conflict of interest. The hypocracy is amazing because they themselves said they wish they would have used the federal bonds for their own downtown hotel project. Wow these are some shady guys and I have lost respect for them.

http://www.digtriad.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=137282&catid=57

[beyonce245]

Dennis Quaintance and Mike Weaver, owners of the O'Henry and Proximity hotels are filing a law suit to invalidate the financing of the proposed downtown hotel. Their reasoning? They don't think the hotel is viable. They have even set up a website. They realize this hotel will get the financing and now they are in panic mode. No judge would rule in their favor because the motive would be to stop competition from hurting their business. Its the ultimate conflict of interest. The hypocracy is amazing because they themselves said they wish they would have used the federal bonds for their own downtown hotel project. Wow these are some shady guys and I have lost respect for them.

http://www.gogreensboro.net/

http://www.digtriad....137282&catid=57

You tell 'em Tim.

[cityboi]

Q & W's counsel seemed to rely heavily on the Lee Street Proposal before it was moved to the Elm Street Center. Problem is, most of the facts and studies, etc. related to the proposed hotel at the Lee Street site are moot because the current proposal is different. And the complaint didn't cite any state or federal statute stating that proposals can't be materially changed after the deadline for submissions had passed, which is what happened here. Q & W are arguing that b/c the notice of intent which included Elm Street Center was submitted after the deadline that it can't be recognized. But if there's no law saying that proposals submitted prior to the deadline can't be changed, then their argument becomes more tenuous.

Secondly, the complaint refers to both December and January reports from Richard Williams at HVS. Richard Williams has done consulting work for Quaintance Weaver in the past. Now read what Jordan Green wrote in Yes! this week: "Andy Scott (assistant city manager) turned to local hotel developer Dennis Quaintance for advice on the viability of Chisholm’s project. The day after Shoffner expressed concerns about the project, Quaintance told Scott: “If I were in the city’s shoes, I’d get a market study for this sort of hotel from one of the top consultancies.”

If Quaintance or Weaver suggested/encouraged the city contract with HVS, and specifically, Richard Williams, for the reports cited in their complaint, their impartiality and admissibility are questionable and shouldn't be allowed in. Or at least that's what I'd argue if I were the hotel group.

Clearly the motive for the law suit is that Q & W don't want the competition. Its rediculous, its like Home Depot suing Lowes because they plan to open up shop down the street.

[krazeeboi]

Wow, this is pretty ridiculous. The childish and immature motives aside, these sort of shenanigans will discourage any outside developers from taking interest in Greensboro. I hope the lawsuit gets thrown out, the hotel gets built, and it becomes a smashing success. I just find it interesting that these guys say they are doing what's in downtown's best interest but chose to build their hotels in the suburbs. Going this far to prevent anyone else from succeeding from an opportunity they missed is about as low as you can get.

[beyonce245]

Wow, this is pretty ridiculous. The childish and immature motives aside, these sort of shenanigans will discourage any outside developers from taking interest in Greensboro. I hope the lawsuit gets thrown out, the hotel gets built, and it becomes a smashing success. I just find it interesting that these guys say they are doing what's in downtown's best interest but chose to build their hotels in the suburbs. Going this far to prevent anyone else from succeeding from an opportunity they missed is about as low as you can get.

The situation is not what it may seem according to what's been written on this thread. Hell, Cityboi's previous post (11 February 2010 - 09:48 PM) isn't even his own opinion. He copied and pasted it without attribution to the original author or source. In fact, I have a sneaking suspicion that Cityboi has actually been exacerbating the problem by engaging in petty name-calling and posting poorly written comments in support of the hotel in the local blogosphere (under the name Tim), hence my previous post. People think "Tim" is being paid to cheerlead by the developers.

I think both sides of the hotel debate, the developers and Quaintance-Weaver, could have acted in a more professional manner. I will say that the hotel proposal has been most hurt, not by the proposed developers themselves, but by their broker who doubles as chairman of the county commissioners. He may not have acted inappropriately in brokering this deal and having the county commissioners vote on it without disclosing why he was recusing himself from the vote. But nevertheless, seeing is believing when it comes to politics. And if people see you as dishonest and untruthful, they're going to believe that regardless of if you were or not.

I appreciate Cityboi's enthusiasm for Greensboro and downtown. I wish more people would display the same. However, he appears to have unwavering support for this hotel no matter the facts. And while I don't agree with the tactics employed by the hoteliers filing suit, I think they are right to question whether or not the hotel is viable. With the same token, I think the developers should be given some breathing room to produce a feasibility study based on the final proposal, since the facts and circumstances of the hotel have changed so much since its inception.

I'll get right behind cityboi and everyone else and cheer this hotel on as soon as they can demonstrate to me that it at least has the potential for success. But I'm not going to support a project that can't be proven. It's not good business.

[gman430]

The situation is not what it may seem according to what's been written on this thread. Hell, Cityboi's previous post (11 February 2010 - 09:48 PM) isn't even his own opinion. He copied and pasted it without attribution to the original author or source. In fact, I have a sneaking suspicion that Cityboi has actually been exacerbating the problem by engaging in petty name-calling and posting poorly written comments in support of the hotel in the local blogosphere (under the name Tim), hence my previous post. People think "Tim" is being paid to cheerlead by the developers.

I think both sides of the hotel debate, the developers and Quaintance-Weaver, could have acted in a more professional manner. I will say that the hotel proposal has been most hurt, not by the proposed developers themselves, but by their broker who doubles as chairman of the county commissioners. He may not have acted inappropriately in brokering this deal and having the county commissioners vote on it without disclosing why he was recusing himself from the vote. But nevertheless, seeing is believing when it comes to politics. And if people see you as dishonest and untruthful, they're going to believe that regardless of if you were or not.

I appreciate Cityboi's enthusiasm for Greensboro and downtown. I wish more people would display the same. However, he appears to have unwavering support for this hotel no matter the facts. And while I don't agree with the tactics employed by the hoteliers filing suit, I think they are right to question whether or not the hotel is viable. With the same token, I think the developers should be given some breathing room to produce a feasibility study based on the final proposal, since the facts and circumstances of the hotel have changed so much since its inception.

I'll get right behind cityboi and everyone else and cheer this hotel on as soon as they can demonstrate to me that it at least has the potential for success. But I'm not going to support a project that can't be proven. It's not good business.

There was supposed to be a hotel like this built here in downtown Greenville, SC. It was going to be five stars and built by a local developer. Well, the dream turned into a nightmare very fast. Originally it was going to be 12 stories tall and have over 100 rooms. The design was fantastic. After construction started though, costs got too high so the developer reduced the hotel size to eight stories tall and made it less than 100 rooms. The design changed too and most people thought it was too boxy looking and extremely lacking. The worst part happened in early 2008 when construction stopped after only one story of the hotel got built. The developer couldn't get a bank loan. It's been that way ever since. The tower crane was removed in mid-2008. Here is the original article with original design: http://www.wyff4.com/money/9539868/detail.html Notice it was announced in mid-2006 and to this day only one story of the hotel has gotten built. New design article: http://www.wyff4.com/news/14576844/detail.html Shorter, less rooms, etc. I truly hope if construction starts on this hotel in Greensboro, the same fate of the Peacock here in Greenville will not happen there.

[krazeeboi]

The situation is not what it may seem according to what's been written on this thread. Hell, Cityboi's previous post (11 February 2010 - 09:48 PM) isn't even his own opinion. He copied and pasted it without attribution to the original author or source. In fact, I have a sneaking suspicion that Cityboi has actually been exacerbating the problem by engaging in petty name-calling and posting poorly written comments in support of the hotel in the local blogosphere (under the name Tim), hence my previous post. People think "Tim" is being paid to cheerlead by the developers.

I think both sides of the hotel debate, the developers and Quaintance-Weaver, could have acted in a more professional manner. I will say that the hotel proposal has been most hurt, not by the proposed developers themselves, but by their broker who doubles as chairman of the county commissioners. He may not have acted inappropriately in brokering this deal and having the county commissioners vote on it without disclosing why he was recusing himself from the vote. But nevertheless, seeing is believing when it comes to politics. And if people see you as dishonest and untruthful, they're going to believe that regardless of if you were or not.

I appreciate Cityboi's enthusiasm for Greensboro and downtown. I wish more people would display the same. However, he appears to have unwavering support for this hotel no matter the facts. And while I don't agree with the tactics employed by the hoteliers filing suit, I think they are right to question whether or not the hotel is viable. With the same token, I think the developers should be given some breathing room to produce a feasibility study based on the final proposal, since the facts and circumstances of the hotel have changed so much since its inception.

I'll get right behind cityboi and everyone else and cheer this hotel on as soon as they can demonstrate to me that it at least has the potential for success. But I'm not going to support a project that can't be proven. It's not good business.

Don't get me wrong; the developers and brokers could have gone about this better, no doubt. And it would be one thing had a citizens group gotten together to oppose this hotel, but being that it's coming from the competition and involves a lawsuit is pretty ludicrous. I'm familiar with the things that get proposed for downtown Greensboro, and there have been other projects proposed in the past whose feasibility was questioned and so forth, so why is THIS particular project getting this level of opposition? It's one thing to withhold full support of this project until further feasibility is determined, but a lawsuit from developers of other hotels in the area? Reeks of immature jealously. I'm not one to call "-ism's", but in this case, it looks like either localism, racism, or sexism could possibly be involved on the part of Weaver and Quaintance, or a combination of the three.

[d_Random]

There was supposed to be a hotel like this built here in downtown Greenville, SC. It was going to be five stars and built by a local developer. Well, the dream turned into a nightmare very fast. Originally it was going to be 12 stories tall and have over 100 rooms. The design was fantastic. After construction started though, costs got too high so the developer reduced the hotel size to eight stories tall and made it less than 100 rooms. The design changed too and most people thought it was too boxy looking and extremely lacking. The worst part happened in early 2008 when construction stopped after only one story of the hotel got built. The developer couldn't get a bank loan. It's been that way ever since. The tower crane was removed in mid-2008. Here is the original article with original design: http://www.wyff4.com/money/9539868/detail.html Notice it was announced in mid-2006 and to this day only one story of the hotel has gotten built. New design article: http://www.wyff4.com/news/14576844/detail.html Shorter, less rooms, etc. I truly hope if construction starts on this hotel in Greensboro, the same fate of the Peacock here in Greenville will not happen there.

If this hotel gets built in Greensboro, same thing will probably happen.

Skip just wants his broker fee and does not give a flip about Greensboro!

[Beany]

I think most of us have been skeptical of this. Based on the proposed location I think a hotel could do well there but I don't get the luxury part of it or the number of rooms. I think they need to keep working their ideas until they get something more feasible. At this point I don't see this getting off the ground.

[cityboi]

The situation is not what it may seem according to what's been written on this thread. Hell, Cityboi's previous post (11 February 2010 - 09:48 PM) isn't even his own opinion. He copied and pasted it without attribution to the original author or source. In fact, I have a sneaking suspicion that Cityboi has actually been exacerbating the problem by engaging in petty name-calling and posting poorly written comments in support of the hotel in the local blogosphere (under the name Tim), hence my previous post. People think "Tim" is being paid to cheerlead by the developers.

I think both sides of the hotel debate, the developers and Quaintance-Weaver, could have acted in a more professional manner. I will say that the hotel proposal has been most hurt, not by the proposed developers themselves, but by their broker who doubles as chairman of the county commissioners. He may not have acted inappropriately in brokering this deal and having the county commissioners vote on it without disclosing why he was recusing himself from the vote. But nevertheless, seeing is believing when it comes to politics. And if people see you as dishonest and untruthful, they're going to believe that regardless of if you were or not.

I appreciate Cityboi's enthusiasm for Greensboro and downtown. I wish more people would display the same. However, he appears to have unwavering support for this hotel no matter the facts. And while I don't agree with the tactics employed by the hoteliers filing suit, I think they are right to question whether or not the hotel is viable. With the same token, I think the developers should be given some breathing room to produce a feasibility study based on the final proposal, since the facts and circumstances of the hotel have changed so much since its inception.

I'll get right behind cityboi and everyone else and cheer this hotel on as soon as they can demonstrate to me that it at least has the potential for success. But I'm not going to support a project that can't be proven. It's not good business.

beyonce maybe the reason you saw the same thing that was posted elsewhere was because I was the person who posted it Clearly people should be concerned if this project were being funded by tax dollars, but this in not the case. Give the project a chance. The recent feasibility report is flawed because of several reasons so I wouldnt base the potential success of this hotel on that report if I were you. Also Chrisholm and Kaplan are fine tuning thier hotel project trying to find the right mix of hotel rooms, retail, restaurants and office. 200 rooms is not set in stone. This is just ONE of the reasons the feasibilty report is flawed because it did not include the mixed-use component. I will continue to support this project for our downtown because I think it can be a success and help attract other development. I do agree the developers and the city should have made this a smoother process and there were mistakes made, people involved in the hotel project should have kept quiet. I still think the sticking point is the parking deck. If city council doesnt approve a deck for this hotel it kills the whole project.

[gman430]

beyonce maybe the reason you saw the same thing that was posted elsewhere was because I was the person who posted it Clearly people should be concerned if this project were being funded by tax dollars, but this in not the case. Give the project a chance. The recent feasibility report is flawed because of several reasons so I wouldnt base the potential success of this hotel on that report if I were you. Also Chrisholm and Kaplan are fine tuning thier hotel project trying to find the right mix of hotel rooms, retail, restaurants and office. 200 rooms is not set in stone. This is just ONE of the reasons the feasibilty report is flawed because it did not include the mixed-use component. I will continue to support this project for our downtown because I think it can be a success and help attract other development. I do agree the developers and the city should have made this a smoother process and there were mistakes made, people involved in the hotel project should have kept quiet. I still think the sticking point is the parking deck. If city council doesnt approve a deck for this hotel it kills the whole project.

But for all the other things going on, there remains little word from the hotel’s developers about whether they can overcome concerns and make the project happen. “I haven’t heard a word,” said George Brumback , chairman of the county’s bond authority.

Source: http://www.news-reco...n_hotel_project

The quote above from Mr. Brumback makes it sound like the project is dead in the water to me. I'm willing to bet the developers couldn't find a bank willing to loan the money needed to complete this project. Got to look at the bright side though. At least they didn't start construction and have it stall half way through getting completely built.

[cityboi]

There are some in the local print media (News & Record and Triad Business Journal) that are agianst seeing this project moving forward. We already know Justin Catanoso is not a big fan of this hotel project. Thats pretty obvious from editorial comments, the negative tone of news articles where a little opinion seems to be injected and news headlines that seem to border on sarcasm. I also question why the News & Record keeps bringing up the fact that its going to be a 51% black owned hotel.

I would like to point out that Mr Brumback said he believes this project isnt dead so that doesnt sound like hes making the project sound like its dead to me.

The reason we arent hearing from the developers is because they are still fine tuning the plan. Unless you have a FINAL plan ready, a bank isnt going to commit. Like someone said elsewhere, banks don't commit to concepts. From what I understand, the developers are currently balancing out how much retail/office and restaurants will be a part of this project. This is important because if the hotel doesnt have the occupancy as projected, the mixed-use part will help cover short falls. Its the reason many developers are building mixed use projects like the 5-story building thats going up on South Elm. It cuts the risk. The developers have said that once they finish revising thier plan, they will do another feasibilty study which includes all the things the last study did not include so it looks like they are buying some time to get things right before they move forward on this. Also the hotel chain needs to commit before a bank backs the hotel. It appears a hotel chain has already committed because the developers noted the chain "would be revealed" by the time this proposal goes to the state commission. Word has it that there have already been changes in the proposal. The rumor is that the hotel is going from 200 room to 175 rooms with a room rate (at the high end) $170 a night instead of the $200 per night. Of course the least expensive rooms would be lower that $170 per night.

But remember, the last feasibilty report did not include the meeting space in the hotel nor the mixed-use portion which will generate revenue to help pay off the hotel debt. The report didnt focus on the proposal's new location on South Elm Street in the heart of the entertainment and restaurant district. Instead it focused more on overall city room vacancy numbers. This is a great location for a downtown hotel. If you are going to do it, it needs to be where all the restuarants, entertainment and attractions are located. The hotel is even more feasible now that they are lowering the number of rooms as well as the rates. The report did not look at the impact of visitors coming to the civil rights museum across the street. We already know that people across the country will come to Greensboro just to go to the museum. Thats already been happening for several years now even though the museum wasnt complete. Bus tours from accross the country have been coming through just to see the museum's progress.

[Beany]

It is funny reading the comments on the N&R articles. No matter how many times it has been explained that these are not government backed loans people still make comments like why is taxpayer money being used to build a hotel?

I do have my doubts about the current proposal but I hope they can make something work. I'd like to see a project of this size get off the ground.

It annoys me that Q&W has leveraged opposition of this project to protect their interest. In a matter of covering both sides of a story the N&R should run a story on what Q&W has to gain by this failing and their previous interest in using this very same stimulus resource. If Q&W are so convinced this hotel cannot work then why are they even worried? I think they are worried because they believe it might just do quite well and their hotels will take a hit because of it.

[krazeeboi]

OK guys, I need everyone to keep it clean in this discussion. No more immature posts about who said what on whatever blog or website. I don't want to have to get to the point of having to dole out infractions, but I will if necessary.

[cityboi]

Looks like the downtown hotel will be a Crowne Plaza Hotel....you heard it here first. This is one of the brands I named earlier as the possible chain. Its still a fairly upscale brand which is primarily located in the downtowns of major urban cities or as resort hotels. Last Summer the Urban Hotel Group was looking at an InterContinental brand and Crowne Plaza is one of those brands. It will certainly be the most upscale chain hotel in Greensboro.

http://www.constructionjournal.com/project_view.aspx?id=638728&projstageid=920573&t=Crowne+Plaza+Hotel

[gman430]

Honey, I believe it's finished. Better stick a fork in it just to make sure first: http://www.news-record.com/content/2010/04/05/article/hotel_details_still_not_released Looks like I was right when I said in February that this proposed hotel was pretty much dead.

[cityboi]

Honey, I believe it's finished. Better stick a fork in it just to make sure first: http://www.news-record.com/content/2010/04/05/article/hotel_details_still_not_released Looks like I was right when I said in February that this proposed hotel was pretty much dead.

They never said the hotel is dead. They may not meet the deadline for this round of stimulus funding. That would certainly delay the project unless they can secure some other kind of financing to keep it on track for a 2012 opening. But nowhere in the article does it say the hotel project is dead. In fact the developers said they still believe a hotel will be built there. Its not the first time a major downtown project has been delayed. I think the Civil Rights museum was delayed 5 years due to lack of funding and issues with water damage in the basement of the Woolworth building. But a delay doesnt mean it wont get built.

[cityboi]

hotel project not dead and while the developers missed the April 15th deadline for the local recovery bonds, they will apply for state recovery bonds

http://yesweeklyblog.blogspot.com/2010/04/hotel-developers-no-longer-seeking.html

[gman430]

Any updates on this proposed development? It's been almost two months since we've heard anything. I stand by my statement that this project sounds dead in the water.

[cityboi]

Any updates on this proposed development? It's been almost two months since we've heard anything. I stand by my statement that this project sounds dead in the water.

We havent heard anything about "Triad Tower" in about 3 years and its not dead. The developer is still paying for the website and the project appears to be on the back burner until the economy improves and more companies move around the airport area.

www.triadtower.com

Until the developers of the hotel project say so, you can't assume its dead. Clearly they are going to have to fund this another way and quite frankly you could say it is the wrong time to build a hotel or any big project in the center-city at this time. A lot of things were believed to be dead.....center-city park was one of them. When voters didnt approve a bond to build center-city park, the idea went away until other funding sources became available. The hotel developers are keeping quiet about their future plans which is what they should have done to begin with.

[beyonce245]

We havent heard anything about "Triad Tower" in about 3 years and its not dead. The developer is still paying for the website and the project appears to be on the back burner until the economy improves and more companies move around the airport area.

www.triadtower.com

Yea...and the website still says it's scheduled for completion in 2007. If a website is all you've got to go one, that's a pretty flimsy argument.

I agree that the hotel is dead, at least in terms of funding from bonds. I don't know if they can secure wholly private financing or not. But I don't know why citylife even had to make a comment asking about hearing updates since he obviously reads the Greensboro news (See April 6th post).

[cityboi]

Hotel project isn't dead folks and we have learned that the hotel flag will be "Wyndham" The hotel will be 10-stories and have 180 rooms (scaled back from 200 rooms) The Urban Hotel Group submitted the new plan to the Bond Authority and this time has provided more details on how the hotel is being paid for. So it looks like the Triad could soon have its first "luxury" national chain hotel. It looks like the new plan calls for a taller hotel. I wonder if they have decided to build parking beneath the hotel since the city of Greensboro hasn't made any decisions on a new downtown parking deck. The timing of this announcement is pretty smart on the part of the hotel developers because they waited until Weaver dropped his lawsuit. I guess Weaver thought the project was dead in the water too.

Well the bank is backing the bonds. That means the hotel developers have proven to the bank the project is feasible. Since the bond authority now has the information it has been requesting (bank financing and hotel name), there is no reason the project shouldn't go forward.

http://www.news-record.com/content/2010/07/07/article/new_proposal_submitted_for_downtown_luxury_hotel

http://www.myfox8.com/news/wghp-story-hotel-proposal-100707,0,2060423.story

http://triad.bizjournals.com/triad/stories/2010/07/05/daily9.html

"The developers, Urban Hotel Group, say they have a signed letter of intent with Wyndham Hotel Management Inc. to become the flag designation and manager of the hotel. Wyndham Hotels and Resorts is an international hotel company and title sponsor of the PGA's Wyndham Championship, held in Greensboro."

"HVS Consulting and Valuation Services, which prepared a report for Greensboro officials in January that cast doubt on the hotel’s viability, ran another study on the revised plans and show a projected occupancy of 47 percent in 2012, up from 38 percent, and reaching 60 percent by 2016, up from 48 percent. Based on those occupancy projections, plus estimates of food and other sales, the hotel would earn a $1.2 million profit its first year rising to $3.3 million in 2016."

Folks I think its safe to say now that this hotel is getting built.

[gman430]

Great news. I have to say I am glad to be eating crow over my comments earlier about thinking this project was dead. I am also glad to see a nice hotel chain sign on to this project along with it being 10 stories tall too.

[cityboi]

The changes that hotel group made has made this project more feasible. Reducing it from 200 to 180 rooms saved them $8 million and the hotel rates will start at around $160 a night instead of the $220 a night. So this is a realistic project now and the bank is satisfied because HVS Consulting and Valuation Services projected a $1.2 million profit its first year. Under the last plan HVS Consulting had done an ealier study showing the hotel wasn't feasible and would lose money. So citylife you would be right under the old plan.

But it appears the hotel group plans to have the hotel up and running by spring of 2012. That means we would start seeing the groundbreaking for the 10-story hotel tower fairly soon and im sure they will start demolition and construction once the bonds have been approved.

[twincity]

Even though they reduced the number of rooms, I'm glad to see they increased the height. Cant wait to see the renderings!