May Town Center

[jice]

I like that they suggest a bridge for transit/peds/bikes.. but will it actually be built? I'd like to know more specifics on whether Maytown has any plans for incorporating transit, hopefully not 30 years away.

I'm sure the Maytown developers knew of the OHB bridge being planned. Wasn't this the location they were originally going to build the single bridge, rather than Centennial blvd?

How do they plan to "protect the rural character" of OHB?

[timmay143]

1. How far are you willing the county to go in condemnation to assemble enough property for a critical mass that would sustain mixed-use development(s)? Remember the Joy Ford saga? And, what of condemnation for strictly private speculation?

I'd be interested to review an inventory of underperforming urban space, specific in size and location, to see if what is proposed for MTC can fit elsewhere in smaller pieces. I think much space around Nashville State on White Bridge Road is wasted, for example.

2. What about infrastructure improvement at other proposed MTC sites? That's proving to be a snag for the current site. People have mentioned the fairgrounds as an alternative location, but what if comparable infrastructure improvements had to be made on I-65, Wedgewood and 8th Avenue; from adding ramps to widening roads? There would certainly be no less protest from neighbors in that area than from neighbors around MTC.

I think whatever problems development is facing in Bells Bend will be multiplied if proposed for established urban and suburban sites, even if at a much smaller scale. I don't think you could put a May Town concept on the Bellevue Mall site, for instance, because it's just too small. You'd need surrounding property to be condemned and may still need I-40 widened in that area.

If planning caves to negative public sentiment we can say goodby to large-scale densification developments in the 'burbs, because what can be stopped from being built in a pasture would certainly be stopped from being built on the edge of Green Hills or in Donelson. There's a development in Green Hills being debated right now; of course, neighbors are complaining about increased traffic, etc, but if we want growth to occur closer to the CBD than Spring Hill, Green Hills is as good as any place to put it.

The only thing keeping those mall areas you mention from being redeveloped is the fact that since bussing began the majority of folks earning the money to keep that much middle-to-high-end retail afloat have been moving and settling outside of Nashville. Just ask Emily Evans, who so famously opined that the May Town Demographic is a better fit for Williamson County than for Davidson. What was the median income in Williamson 40 years ago? 8k/yr? Unfortunately, no one in Metro government has set a goal to reverse the Evans trend, despite the re-implementation of neighborhood schools.

Lastly, I'd hate to see the project moved to a site approved by the city if that means, in return, the city agrees to pay for the infrastructure improvements, and swaps land that might cost $100,000,000 to acquire with Bells Bend land that cost only $23,000,000. The MTC developer has made too many million$ in concessions to just throw that site out, only to spend million$ of tax dollars to entice private investment elsewhere. And the reason the Mays have offered up those concessions is because developing that empty piece of land, as opposed to redeveloping developed land, will provide the most profit. I think locating a May Town, in one or several pieces, as redevelopments will take a lot of government investment/bribery to make such a venture attractive to private money.

Yup, good points Shuzllia. I knew I could count on you to reply! Thanks.

As far as the NIMBY's I understand there will be opposition no matter where this thing is proposed. Also the infrastructure improvements will also be needed anywhere this thing goes as well.

However, I was thinking that the developers could pitch in with infrastructure improvements around Bellevue, HH, or Donelson. They seem to imply they want MTC to be mass transit friendly and transit friendly. I have forgotten, and I am too busy to look up the info . Do the developers plan on funding the bridge or expecting the city to fund it? If they plan on helping or funding it totally, why not improve existing areas and get the ball rolling on connecting mass transit or better transit options to and througout the city and region. Especially, since Mayor Dean is in favor or pointing Nashville and the regional area in that direction anyways. A great example of this is the new hybrid buses, BRT, and passing the funding thingy (sorry I forgot exactly what that entailed as well ).

As far as condemnation, I was thinking that the current owners of the malls or a land developer in Donelson would be in favor of working with the MTC developers so that would not have to occur.

I imagine HH mall design to go something like this. Keep the current cross design and the stores in the mall as retail since this is supposed to be a mixed-project. Maybe open up the mall area roof to the outside. Then build on each side, buildings with open courtyards in the middle around the cross, effectively making a square using one side as the exist mall cross appendage and building the other three. I know this vision is very clear! (warning extreme sarcasm here, ) So these buildings would house the office space and residential living. This could then, in turn, the whole HH area into a urban pedestrian friendly area. Then to help with infrastructure, the second leg of the STAR, BRT, and maybe additional streetcars, or LRT could begin in the area and run from Nashville to Mufreesboro. Also, if the area is too small then build a little higher and have two campuses or three campuses to include Bellevue and Donelson with similar designs and improvements. Of course this is a pipe dream, probably bogged down with problems of its own, and I am playing developer/designer from my computer chair so it is probably ugly and too small of an area as well .

Anywho, my point is that I would rather see existing improvements done to area that desperately need it rather than building from stratch (100 Oaks Mall). Just my thoughts and two cents!

[jice]

^ I agree, I would much rather see this as an improvement to an existing area. HH would probably be ideal, since it seems to be slowly deteriorating. Only thing is assembling all the land, and extra costs for demolition or renovation. Those, i'm afraid, would probably skyrocket the total costs.

Plus, something would need to be done to protect the Bells Bend area from being a magnet for traditional sprawl.

[cdkoellein]

I like that they suggest a bridge for transit/peds/bikes.. but will it actually be built? I'd like to know more specifics on whether Maytown has any plans for incorporating transit, hopefully not 30 years away.

I'm sure the Maytown developers knew of the OHB bridge being planned. Wasn't this the location they were originally going to build the single bridge, rather than Centennial blvd?

How do they plan to "protect the rural character" of OHB?

Jice, There are plans for transit and traffic demand management to be introduced at the very outset, modest at first, but growing into as full-fledged a system as technology and city-wide transit infrastructure will allow. May Town Center will be a key part of bringing transit visions to reality in Nashville.

The OHB bridge has been planned by the MPO for decades for the sake of connectivity. The intention was that the new bridge relocated to Cockrill Bend would displace the need for connectivity provided by the OHB bridge. This is now a topic of ongoing discussion--when, where and what sort of bridges might be needed for the sake of connectivity. For the sake of capacity, the Cockrill Bend bridge suffices.

As for OHB, the preservation of its rural character has been priority number one for the community and the Planning Department. It is the link between the underused Bells Bend and Beaman Parks. So, the developer will be donating $4 million for the express purpose of preserving other land throughout Bells Bend, and $3 million of that has a specific focus on Old Hickory Boulevard, acquiring existing development rights and placing properties in permanent conservation easements. This sort of investment in land preservation is without precedent. MTC itself is visually and physically buffered from OHB so that it really will be virtually invisible unless you are in the development itself.

By the way, and I also said this on Nashville Charrette, there has been much made recently of archaeological studies. I think we all know that this issue is a red herring and that the developers will, of course, do all of the appropriate excavations taking direction from all of the proper authorities, far more than is customary. It will be part of the zoning docs. A wonderful inventory report (apparently not a "survey" for the semantically inclined) was done by Zada Law so that we know what is out there and have developed a plan that respects the site. The more that is said, the more mountainous the molehill becomes. So, 'nuff said. My words have already been manipulated on this subject elsewhere.

[dmillsphoto]

Well, that was a strange turn of events.

[jice]

Well, that was a strange turn of events.

Yeah.. i was trying to follow along on Twitter.. but it was a little confusing.

I guess (according to Michael Cass) the end result is that the Planning commission rejected the Maytown proposal.. so its up to Metro Council, but their chances are slim.

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20090626...May+Town+Center

[Shuzilla]

It was interesting to hear some commission members reminisce about the good ol' 1200-unit Zeitlin development. I always liked that proposal, especially because the same master planner was being utilized by the H2O developers just across the river.

I don't see MTC going much further. I read the city council is split, so the chances of getting 27 ayes seems dim. Time for a new plan.

The hurdles to development on the tip of Bells Bend have been (1) opposition to additional traffic down OHB, (2) connectivity to the south that might invite immediate suburbanization and (3) sanitary sewers that would do the same while allowing smaller lot sizes.

If the Bells Bend Partners want to get something built out there, and the majority of Bells Bend residents want to see the constant fighting come to an end, perhaps the Mays and their neighbors can come to an agreement outside of the spotlights for something a bit more than 600 homes but not a May Town. It seems to me some of the planning commission members were leaning that way. I think going forward by going back will work if this time there is local support.

For instance, an upzoning to 2000 homes, with localized sewer only, could more than offset the construction of a two-lane bridge southward to keep traffic out of Scottsboro. Such a bridge could be built for around $20 million, I'd guess. That would translate to under $25,000 per door, as Sumpter Camp refers to homesites, including the initial land purchase and other costs incurred thus far. However, the lots would probably be worth closer to twice that when developed if they connected directly to West Nashville, say, at the H2O site. It wouldn't hurt H2O to have those homes nearby, either.

Anyone?

[Siddhartha]

*

[Shuzilla]

Glad to see this may be defeated as the environmental concerns are great. The Cumberland Watershed Project, the Cumberland Levee system which protects Metro Center would be at risk not too mention the animal species displaced and the avian species who have been roosting there for centuries would have to be relocated if this were developed.

Fine. Now, locate even one acre of land for development that isn't in the Cumberland's watershed (hint - you'll see a storm sewer turning up into heaven) and won't affect avian and animal species. Mars comes to mind, but that would be a strech for MTA service.

MDHA stated downtown Nashville was 37% vacant with most of that being surface parking lots and abandoned buildings. Maybe the May's should have bought property in that 37% blighted area.

Maybe they will. Maybe the city will buy up all that land for a quarter billion dollars, then turn around and sell it to developers for fifty million dollars to insure an attractive profit margin. The city will, of course, pay to clean up that land, including any environmental issues, before turning it over to the developers. Maybe it will then TIF every project proposed for that land. And of course, public money will go towards all infrastructure improvements required for increasing access to and capacity for those projects. But, it's downtown first or nothing, right?

Sounds great.

[Shuzilla]

All I said was the environmental impact will be huge.

Not unlike the paving of Williamson county, achieved AD 1970 to AD 2030, only 60 years. Bells Bend is, of course, much more important than a whole county.

Many national environmental groups across the country are gearing up their legal teams for this fight which may end up in the United States Supreme Court of which Sotomayo will preside if confirmed.

A fight based on what, exactly? PR and the raw expendature of money by these groups on lawyers, or on actual law? < Serious question.

Has not enough land been wasted on increasing our carbon footprint?

No. Prove otherwise.

Do you really see a need for this type of development 20, 30, 40 years from now?

Maybe not, so prudence dictates we'd better get started now. And I've seen just the plan...

The future is small locally owned businesses. The campus call center and campus IT departments have moved to China, India, Mexico, and Brazil.

You know the future? That's great. I'm still trying to decide, "Deflation or inflation, recession or depression?" Economists all have good points behind their arguments. But I have seen the past 40 years, and I'm witnessing the policy-driven continuation of that past. The Census Bureau estimates 900,000 new people in the 10-county Nashville MSA by 2030, but only about 110,000 of that increase will come to Nashville. We could fit them all comfortably in thirty May Town type developments, taking less than 20,000 acres while locking up thousands more from development. We could fit half of them inside Davidson County. But we won't do any of that because we stumbled when taking the first step. Say goodby to another million acres of greenspace, Sid.

How much money are you planning to bet on your vision of the future, Sid? I don't think that developers, after years of discussions with prospective clients, would provide a site for these clients with a $100 Million investment if they weren't convinced they had a decent chance at doing well. And I doubt opponents would accuse the Mays of being greedy if they did not also see the financial windfall coming down the road for these investors.

Nota bene' (note well) that the Medical Mart is moving to the Central Business District of downtown Nashville.

Downtown is an excellent location, but what will that ultimately cost taxpayers? Probably much more than all of May Town would.

And, nota bene', this Sid guy has this theory that the future is in small, locally-owned businesses. The centrallized clustering of medically-related companies in Nashville that attracted the Medical Mart might decentrallize in the coming decades, as might the music industry (how hard is recording music? I mean, really?). Maybe even go to China or India, leaving an empty Medical Mart and a ghost town for Music Row. And arriving thusly at a dead downtown and already having dead suburbs, we should all probably get out now. So maybe we should stop the Medical Mart from getting out of the ground to begin with. That's your own development logic applied to the Medical Mart.

You want the city to kill May Town, which is an alternative to our land-hungry development patterns since WWII, but the city has no alternative to offer. None. So, it will be same-old, same-old. And it looks to developers to bring forward alternatives, only to place unsurmountable hurdles in front of their grand visions for public spectacle. So long as the felled tree falls in a Williamson or Sumner county forest, it makes no sound. But a scuttled May Town makes for one hellova firecracker!

Williamson county built up the way it did with cheap land and low taxes. Do not think for a moment that Bells Bend is the same situation.

No. It's in a much superior position, because it's actually in Nashville, which is a great town. It's location will support $4 Billion in development. $4 Billion in improvements will support a land value of about $1 Billion. Looked at that way, $23 Million for land and $150 Million for improvements to create a billion dollar piece of land is fabulously cheap. All from simply bridging the Cumberland River, as had been discussed for decades.

WilCo started as cheap land. As that cheap land was developed, and we lost hundreds of thousands of local farming acres, half-million dollar homes were built. When their land becomes too pricey, land in the next county gets developed. see apattern here? Because their housing stock is woth more on average than Nashville's housing stock, they can have a relatively low tax rate compared to Nashville. If more people living in half-million-dollar homes lived in Nashville, we'd all have a smaller tax burden to share. But they don't, and we have no alternative to bring them back. Our affluent enclaves are stagnant while our empty land is Antioched. We continue to ignore the "environmental destruction" at the fringes because we can do no other.

I'd take no comfort in knowing the future, if it could be known. I'm not very positive about it, right about now.

[Shuzilla]

Shuzilla, we can agree to disagree. Your terse and somewhat unfriendly demeanor and tone makes me regret joining this forum after all. I was warned as such but did not listen. It seems all message boards are full of anger right now. I'll just leave and make it easier for you. I am an ardent environmentalist and I guess I am tired of humanity developing every piece of land it can in the name of economics and progress while our carbon footprint and global warming are increasing, but I am sure you will deny global warming even exists. I recently saw a bumper sticker on a car that said "Global Warming and Evolution are theories like Gravity..." That sticker was right next to their John 3:16 decal...go figure. By the way, I never said kill the Medical Mart. You are reading too much into it. Like I said, I would never go to May Town Center anyway. Enjoy the flood.

Look, you come in here with all the answers, holding a prejudice against me (as highlighted in bold letters above), without refreshing yourself on the topic that's been ongoing for sixteen months. You did not come here to discuss and debate - I posted a proposal just before yours and asked for opinions, and you ignored it to take your victory lap. You accused me of being angry when I was as deadpan as could be. You contradicted your own development theory with the Medical Mart, but don't want to discuss that.

And, to my deep frustration, you refuse to answer to the environmental cost of this development going to adjacent counties, paving many times the greenfields even as it takes opportunity out of county, while saying as a long line of opponents have that the environment is your central tennant. It's the Great Wall of Cognitive Dissonance, Charlie Brown. Talking to opponents about destroyed greenfield elsewhere as a cost of saving it here is like talking to a wall.

Nashville is a city, in which for some crazy reason we are trying to put farmland. The counties that surround us WERE farmland, until Nashville spilled out into them. May Town could be a turning point for denser development closer to the CDB, saving multiples the greenfield elsewhere by condensing our aggregate developed footprint. Where am I wrong?

[producer2]

Shuzilla,

It is a common foe you are in discussions with. Think about the verbiage and thought process here. I wouldn't take it too seriously, it is mostly about getting a response.... (but nice job)

[titanhog]

The sad thing about it is that the "environment" has become a convenient tool of the left to win private battles of "not in my back yard." We've seen it in WilCo with 840...and it's been used with May Town and so many other projects. It's also sad to see, more and more, that those who are environmental zealots almost always have to take a shot at Christians.

I am a Christian AND I believe we should take steps to protect the environment...but not at all costs. As for global warming, it has become a multi-billion dollar business, corrupted by greed and governmental interference...and political craftiness. How to separate the reality of how much (if any) we are effecting global temperature and the minutia coming from those who are making a living off of the fears of others, is beyond me.

So...yes...let's kill MayTown and just go ahead and start building down at Berry Farms in southern WilCo and expand further outward. THAT expanded carbon footprint won't effect the environment nearly as much as the same size footprint of MayTown, will it?!

[jice]

Maytown's Metro Council sponsor... plans to defer the May Town Center rezoning plan indefinitely when the council meets next week.

But.. he still wants the Mays to complete the 250-acre land transfer to TSU, as they promised to do with no strings attached.

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20090701...010400/-1/RSS05

I just hope this does not mean we end up seeing 500-600 single family homes...

[titanhog]

Maytown's Metro Council sponsor... plans to defer the May Town Center rezoning plan indefinitely when the council meets next week.

But.. he still wants the Mays to complete the 250-acre land transfer to TSU, as they promised to do with no strings attached.

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20090701...010400/-1/RSS05

I just hope this does not mean we end up seeing 500-600 single family homes...

There's a good chance of that in the future. That's the tough thing about this...it WILL be something other than it is right now...and will it be something better or worse than MayTown?

[jice]

There's a good chance of that in the future. That's the tough thing about this...it WILL be something other than it is right now...and will it be something better or worse than MayTown?

Good question.

If the May family owns the majority of the land in Bells Bend.. i guess it would be up to them, right? For the most part? They could stick with the current zoning and build single family homes.. or.. maybe work out a deal for something better?

[Shuzilla]

Good question.

If the May family owns the majority of the land in Bells Bend.. i guess it would be up to them, right? For the most part? They could stick with the current zoning and build single family homes.. or.. maybe work out a deal for something better?

I don't think they own the majority of the land, but if they opt to build within current zoning then any other property owner can join in or have a parallel development. Remember, this started with Zeitlins, then the Mays brought some land in, so now others could throw in a few thousand more acres and push a subdivision through as the majority's will. My guess is that an alliance has formed among the large land holders (thanks, Sen. Henry).

I suspect that one large, planned subdivision would be preferred by the planning commission to many scattered and disjoined developments. And as one commissioner remarked, if the existing infrastructure does not support existing zoning then there would be taxpayer money involved in upgrades. It was only because the Mays were wanting to upzone did they have to pay for the infrastructure that allowed for the upzoning.

[jice]

I don't think they own the majority of the land, but if they opt to build within current zoning then any other property owner can join in or have a parallel development. Remember, this started with Zeitlins, then the Mays brought some land in, so now others could throw in a few thousand more acres and push a subdivision through as the majority's will. My guess is that an alliance has formed among the large land holders (thanks, Sen. Henry).

I suspect that one large, planned subdivision would be preferred by the planning commission to many scattered and disjoined developments. And as one commissioner remarked, if the existing infrastructure does not support existing zoning then there would be taxpayer money involved in upgrades. It was only because the Mays were wanting to upzone did they have to pay for the infrastructure that allowed for the upzoning.

Question.. if the existing infrastructure does not support existing zoning (which it likely does not, i would assume)... why is it zoned that way? Why is its not zoned as agricultural or some other zoning that does not require expensive bridges and roads, etc., in the near future?

[Hankster]

All I said was the environmental impact will be huge.

Not unlike the paving of Williamson county, achieved AD 1970 to AD 2030, only 60 years. Bells Bend is, of course, much more important than a whole county.

Many national environmental groups across the country are gearing up their legal teams for this fight which may end up in the United States Supreme Court of which Sotomayo will preside if confirmed.

A fight based on what, exactly? PR and the raw expendature of money by these groups on lawyers, or on actual law? < Serious question.

Has not enough land been wasted on increasing our carbon footprint?

No. Prove otherwise.

Do you really see a need for this type of development 20, 30, 40 years from now?

Maybe not, so prudence dictates we'd better get started now. And I've seen just the plan...

The future is small locally owned businesses. The campus call center and campus IT departments have moved to China, India, Mexico, and Brazil.

You know the future? That's great. I'm still trying to decide, "Deflation or inflation, recession or depression?" Economists all have good points behind their arguments. But I have seen the past 40 years, and I'm witnessing the policy-driven continuation of that past. The Census Bureau estimates 900,000 new people in the 10-county Nashville MSA by 2030, but only about 110,000 of that increase will come to Nashville. We could fit them all comfortably in thirty May Town type developments, taking less than 20,000 acres while locking up thousands more from development. We could fit half of them inside Davidson County. But we won't do any of that because we stumbled when taking the first step. Say goodby to another million acres of greenspace, Sid.

How much money are you planning to bet on your vision of the future, Sid? I don't think that developers, after years of discussions with prospective clients, would provide a site for these clients with a $100 Million investment if they weren't convinced they had a decent chance at doing well. And I doubt opponents would accuse the Mays of being greedy if they did not also see the financial windfall coming down the road for these investors.

Nota bene' (note well) that the Medical Mart is moving to the Central Business District of downtown Nashville.

Downtown is an excellent location, but what will that ultimately cost taxpayers? Probably much more than all of May Town would.

And, nota bene', this Sid guy has this theory that the future is in small, locally-owned businesses. The centrallized clustering of medically-related companies in Nashville that attracted the Medical Mart might decentrallize in the coming decades, as might the music industry (how hard is recording music? I mean, really?). Maybe even go to China or India, leaving an empty Medical Mart and a ghost town for Music Row. And arriving thusly at a dead downtown and already having dead suburbs, we should all probably get out now. So maybe we should stop the Medical Mart from getting out of the ground to begin with. That's your own development logic applied to the Medical Mart.

You want the city to kill May Town, which is an alternative to our land-hungry development patterns since WWII, but the city has no alternative to offer. None. So, it will be same-old, same-old. And it looks to developers to bring forward alternatives, only to place unsurmountable hurdles in front of their grand visions for public spectacle. So long as the felled tree falls in a Williamson or Sumner county forest, it makes no sound. But a scuttled May Town makes for one hellova firecracker!

Williamson county built up the way it did with cheap land and low taxes. Do not think for a moment that Bells Bend is the same situation.

No. It's in a much superior position, because it's actually in Nashville, which is a great town. It's location will support $4 Billion in development. $4 Billion in improvements will support a land value of about $1 Billion. Looked at that way, $23 Million for land and $150 Million for improvements to create a billion dollar piece of land is fabulously cheap. All from simply bridging the Cumberland River, as had been discussed for decades.

WilCo started as cheap land. As that cheap land was developed, and we lost hundreds of thousands of local farming acres, half-million dollar homes were built. When their land becomes too pricey, land in the next county gets developed. see apattern here? Because their housing stock is woth more on average than Nashville's housing stock, they can have a relatively low tax rate compared to Nashville. If more people living in half-million-dollar homes lived in Nashville, we'd all have a smaller tax burden to share. But they don't, and we have no alternative to bring them back. Our affluent enclaves are stagnant while our empty land is Antioched. We continue to ignore the "environmental destruction" at the fringes because we can do no other.

I'd take no comfort in knowing the future, if it could be known. I'm not very positive about it, right about now.

I could not agree with you more. Nashville needs MatyTown Center if if is ever to break the trend of suburban sprawl. Those against this project are extremely short-sighted in their view point. We don't want Nashville to become another Atlanta.

All I said was the environmental impact will be huge.

Not unlike the paving of Williamson county, achieved AD 1970 to AD 2030, only 60 years. Bells Bend is, of course, much more important than a whole county.

Many national environmental groups across the country are gearing up their legal teams for this fight which may end up in the United States Supreme Court of which Sotomayo will preside if confirmed.

A fight based on what, exactly? PR and the raw expendature of money by these groups on lawyers, or on actual law? < Serious question.

Has not enough land been wasted on increasing our carbon footprint?

No. Prove otherwise.

Do you really see a need for this type of development 20, 30, 40 years from now?

Maybe not, so prudence dictates we'd better get started now. And I've seen just the plan...

The future is small locally owned businesses. The campus call center and campus IT departments have moved to China, India, Mexico, and Brazil.

You know the future? That's great. I'm still trying to decide, "Deflation or inflation, recession or depression?" Economists all have good points behind their arguments. But I have seen the past 40 years, and I'm witnessing the policy-driven continuation of that past. The Census Bureau estimates 900,000 new people in the 10-county Nashville MSA by 2030, but only about 110,000 of that increase will come to Nashville. We could fit them all comfortably in thirty May Town type developments, taking less than 20,000 acres while locking up thousands more from development. We could fit half of them inside Davidson County. But we won't do any of that because we stumbled when taking the first step. Say goodby to another million acres of greenspace, Sid.

How much money are you planning to bet on your vision of the future, Sid? I don't think that developers, after years of discussions with prospective clients, would provide a site for these clients with a $100 Million investment if they weren't convinced they had a decent chance at doing well. And I doubt opponents would accuse the Mays of being greedy if they did not also see the financial windfall coming down the road for these investors.

Nota bene' (note well) that the Medical Mart is moving to the Central Business District of downtown Nashville.

Downtown is an excellent location, but what will that ultimately cost taxpayers? Probably much more than all of May Town would.

And, nota bene', this Sid guy has this theory that the future is in small, locally-owned businesses. The centrallized clustering of medically-related companies in Nashville that attracted the Medical Mart might decentrallize in the coming decades, as might the music industry (how hard is recording music? I mean, really?). Maybe even go to China or India, leaving an empty Medical Mart and a ghost town for Music Row. And arriving thusly at a dead downtown and already having dead suburbs, we should all probably get out now. So maybe we should stop the Medical Mart from getting out of the ground to begin with. That's your own development logic applied to the Medical Mart.

You want the city to kill May Town, which is an alternative to our land-hungry development patterns since WWII, but the city has no alternative to offer. None. So, it will be same-old, same-old. And it looks to developers to bring forward alternatives, only to place unsurmountable hurdles in front of their grand visions for public spectacle. So long as the felled tree falls in a Williamson or Sumner county forest, it makes no sound. But a scuttled May Town makes for one hellova firecracker!

Williamson county built up the way it did with cheap land and low taxes. Do not think for a moment that Bells Bend is the same situation.

No. It's in a much superior position, because it's actually in Nashville, which is a great town. It's location will support $4 Billion in development. $4 Billion in improvements will support a land value of about $1 Billion. Looked at that way, $23 Million for land and $150 Million for improvements to create a billion dollar piece of land is fabulously cheap. All from simply bridging the Cumberland River, as had been discussed for decades.

WilCo started as cheap land. As that cheap land was developed, and we lost hundreds of thousands of local farming acres, half-million dollar homes were built. When their land becomes too pricey, land in the next county gets developed. see apattern here? Because their housing stock is woth more on average than Nashville's housing stock, they can have a relatively low tax rate compared to Nashville. If more people living in half-million-dollar homes lived in Nashville, we'd all have a smaller tax burden to share. But they don't, and we have no alternative to bring them back. Our affluent enclaves are stagnant while our empty land is Antioched. We continue to ignore the "environmental destruction" at the fringes because we can do no other.

I'd take no comfort in knowing the future, if it could be known. I'm not very positive about it, right about now.

I could not agree with you more. Nashville needs May Town Center if if is ever to break the trend of suburban sprawl. Those against this project are extremely short-sighted in their view point. We don't want Nashville to become another Atlanta.

[smeagolsfree]

I don't think they own the majority of the land, but if they opt to build within current zoning then any other property owner can join in or have a parallel development. Remember, this started with Zeitlins, then the Mays brought some land in, so now others could throw in a few thousand more acres and push a subdivision through as the majority's will. My guess is that an alliance has formed among the large land holders (thanks, Sen. Henry).

I suspect that one large, planned subdivision would be preferred by the planning commission to many scattered and disjoined developments. And as one commissioner remarked, if the existing infrastructure does not support existing zoning then there would be taxpayer money involved in upgrades. It was only because the Mays were wanting to upzone did they have to pay for the infrastructure that allowed for the upzoning.

The only problems with one large planned subdivision or many small ones will be :

1) that the access will be from Hwy 12 and cause more traffic, more people from that side of the development.

2) the land still is used for something other than agricultural

3) environmental concerns that many used against this project will be forfeit, for example use of herbicides, pesticides on lawns and destruction of wildlife habitat.

There are other reasons that may not be obvious at this point as it is 4 am and my brain is not working all the way , but the land they are trying to save will be developed one way or the other under current zoning. I cant say I was a fan of Maytown either, but I feel that this may only be a short term win for the residents in that area.

[jdavidf]

I rather liked Gail Kerr's column in yesterday's Tennessean.

I'm no expert, but if it could be done (trade the city-owned land around the fairgrounds for the May owned land in Bell's Bend) and the fairgrounds and surrounding area could be resurrected, seems at first blush to be a pretty good notion.

If the city then owned the land in Bell's Bend, isn't there the possibility it could be preserved in its rural state?

Maybe yes, maybe no.. but at least Peter Heidenreich said "It's not crazy"..

David

[timmay143]

Hmmm...I guess it could work at the Fairgrounds. I really liked the idea of turning it into a movie village. However, I also understand the historical importance of the racetrack. I am not a big racing fan at all. Well, I really don't have any interest except it is a good entertainment alternative/diversity and money generating event/venue. So I can understand people not wanting to tear down the track. As far as the noise complaints, well that's just silly. It's like moving into the city then complaining about sirens/traffic noise/ etc. It is a part of the fabric.

Maybe there is a way to build a smaller MTC type development along with a movie village and keep the track? As you can tell my personality is an "I want everything" type. Not as in spoiled, just that it is hard for me to sometimes select one thing. For example, I was at Walmart the other day checking out the sale on rose bushes and was about to buy one of each kind. Then my wife found me and made me buy only two.

As far as BB and MTC, I wish the May family could build what the people in the area like. Whatever is going to be proposed here development-wise is going to have a hard time unless it is something the neighborhood favors. I think the organic farmland and TSU research center are excellent ideas. I am not sure why this land needs to be developed because I can think of several locations for a MTC type development can go within Davidson Co. If I had money, and power I would consider Hickory Hollow Mall, Bellevue Mall, MetroCenter, Donelson (I am thinking of the existing office buildings plus more near Briley Parkway), and maybe the Fairgrounds. If space is a problem then several of the locations could "combined" to satisfy room. Also, people complain about HHM area where no one would locate their business. Well if you build and modify the area then business would want to come and the "bad area" would cleanse itself IMO. Also, another reason I am in favor of the mall areas is because I believe the existing structures could be designed into the development and these areas need a boost of some sort. I am amazed and excited at how 100 Oaks has turned out. Kudos to Vanderbilt for their part. I never thought that area could be so nice and functional!!

Mr. William Williams, if you could investigate these ideas I would be delighted. Maybe talk to developers and/or write a piece about alternatives? I believe we need the type of development, just not in BB.

[smeagolsfree]

I think we had discussed this at one point. Cant quiet remember. Must have been at a forum meet. The good thing about the fair grounds is that all the surrounding area could be opened up for development and not just one developer. Another cool thing is the rail tracks run right next to the site, so if they ever do rail you have a station right there. If I were the developer here I would have to insist on height limits on building be dropped because of the size of the land plot being so small. You would have another skyline poping out into the sky for sure.

[jice]

Coopertown Center?

An official in Robertson County

[jice]

The Planning Commission might be rehearing the Maytown rezoning... I can understand why the Commission members are tired, lol.

http://www.tennessean.com/assets/pdf/DN138629715.PDF

http://www.tennessean.com/assets/pdf/DN138628715.PDF