Transit 2020

[BBascule]

Commercial Occupancy up in City, down in Suburbs

I wasn't sure where else to put this, but it's an important statistic related to the reurbanization of the state, so I put it in the transit thread.

[mr2448]

[

The fact remains that the economy in shifting, and our tax structure should, too. Spare me the "well it's easy for you to say that when you don't have to pay." I am exactly the kind of business that would have had to pay that tax. And I would have.

[Patrick Ward]

Legalize and tax marijuana and prostitution, regulate and tax the sh!t out of it, then advertise heavily in the bible belt. Budget crisis solved.

We're already halfway there with the legalization, just need the regulation and taxation.

[Cotuit]

Bad idea.

[runawayjim]

Well, if you say so.

[glassandsteel]

At what cost? Trust me man, I know some prostitutes (don't get the wrong idea), I wouldn't want that to be a booming industry anywhere. Nobody rationally decides to become a prostitute as a career move, there's a long fall into that position. I know that legit prostitution would consist of a far higher ratio of "remotely stable" folks, but I've seen what a "lifer" looks like and it's a sad tale.

[glassandsteel]

Wow, that was probably unnecessarily serious and depressing. Sorry, I didn't mean to be a party-pooper........ or else I woulda charged more! Ha! Ba-duh tsss!

[runawayjim]

At what cost? Trust me man, I know some prostitutes (don't get the wrong idea), I wouldn't want that to be a booming industry anywhere. Nobody rationally decides to become a prostitute as a career move, there's a long fall into that position. I know that legit prostitution would consist of a far higher ratio of "remotely stable" folks, but I've seen what a "lifer" looks like and it's a sad tale.

[frymasterspeck]

If this tread shows anything, it shows how deeply interwoven all these issues are. Transit, taxes, white vs black market economies.

If Mr. Ward secretly (and sensibly) thought that legalization/decriminalization of drugs, etc. was a good idea, he'da just kept his own council. To proactively make the statement is, well, a statement.

"Oh, well allow me to retort." </jules>

The prohibition of vice (drugs, sex, gambling), has done nothing to eliminate the activities, nor has it had any meaningful effect to even lessen the social impacts of these behaviors. In short, if it were gonna work, it would have a long time ago.

Instead, just as during Prohibition, these vice laws only serve to:

• ensure the market, and therefore

• exacerbate the problems

Some portion of human, it seems, will always engage in vice behavior, regardless of rules, consequences, etc. To think otherwise is delusional. If the goal is to manage the problems associated with vice behaviors and minimize the societal damage they cause, then prohibition should be at the bottom of the list.

As long as there is a demand - and there always will be a demand - there will be a supply. Take drugs. Because prohibitive laws ensure the market, keeping prices artificially high, the enormous reward far outweighs the enormous risk (prison/death) associated with that industry. Somebody is going to roll those dice.

Beyond that, prohibition of vice drives users underground, away from the places that offer help, away from the safety of the larger society, and into the hands of the most dangerous criminal elements.

Think about this: when Castro and Che marched into Havana in 1960, it was the pimps, not the aristocrats, that got the hell out first. They, more than any other part of that society, were viewed as the most heinous abusers of their fellow citizens. Today, Cuba has what's best described as a pimp-less prostitution system.

If Mr. Ward thinks prohibitive vice laws solve problems, let him demonstrate a single positive example of how that works. Predicting consequences of decriminalization does not count.

[Pseudo_Work]

Intermodal station update a chance to push for RI transportation bond issue.

[FjmArch]

Intermodal station update a chance to push for RI transportation bond issue.

[Pseudo_Work]

What great Project Planning

1. Start construction before we have an agreement in place for trains to actually stop at the station.

2. Start Construction before you have all of the funding in place for the project.

This state is so ass backwards, we should really consider selling to CT or MA.

[CtownMikey]

What great Project Planning

1. Start construction before we have an agreement in place for trains to actually stop at the station.

2. Start Construction before you have all of the funding in place for the project.

This state is so ass backwards, we should really consider selling to CT or MA.

[Pseudo_Work]

redic

[simontenders]

Any news on the Transit 2020 front? I attended the downcity charette this past week (at least a few hours of it) and not a word was spoken of light rail. Not from the planning and development folks, not from the consultants they hired to host the event. There was some talk of Jitneys and BRTs for the downtown area, and who knows, maybe a provisional system of that kind needs to precede a light rail system, but this is 2008 for Christ's sake, and the city deserves better...needs to take a bold leap or else slip back into the pit that was the '80s.

For such an ambitious plan to go forward, I think, requires some agitation from the public, and at this stage, no official seeking federal funds can credibly say "my constituents are screaming for this!," because no one is really screaming except the Sierra Club and Grow Smart. Not even the threat of RIPTA's disintegration has met with any broad show of concern...

Am I missing something here? Because if there is some "grassroots" organization, I'd lend a hand.

[FjmArch]

Move to Hartford then.

[Pseudo_Work]

Any news on the Transit 2020 front? I attended the downcity charette this past week (at least a few hours of it) and not a word was spoken of light rail. Not from the planning and development folks, not from the consultants they hired to host the event. There was some talk of Jitneys and BRTs for the downtown area, and who knows, maybe a provisional system of that kind needs to precede a light rail system, but this is 2008 for Christ's sake, and the city deserves better...needs to take a bold leap or else slip back into the pit that was the '80s.

For such an ambitious plan to go forward, I think, requires some agitation from the public, and at this stage, no official seeking federal funds can credibly say "my constituents are screaming for this!," because no one is really screaming except the Sierra Club and Grow Smart. Not even the threat of RIPTA's disintegration has met with any broad show of concern...

Am I missing something here? Because if there is some "grassroots" organization, I'd lend a hand.

[Cotuit]

At the final session there was talk of having three transit centers, the train station, K. Plaza, and someplace in the JD. RIPTA states that if K. Plaza where an area where busses pass through, rather then terminate as they do now, that K. Plaza could actually serve more riders, in less space, with fewer buses. A north/south transitway is theorized connecting those three transit centers and an east/west route. North-south was more discussed and it was proposed that BRT should run there in advance of an eventual streetcar line. North-south routes were identified where streetcars could actually fit (i.e. Dyer, Dorrance, Exchange...).

As for "Transit 2020", the person in the Mayor's Office who was heading it up is no longer in the Mayor's Office and I have heard nothing of anyone taking over the project. However, I suspect on November 5th (or whenever we find out who's going to Pennsylvania Avenue in January) we'll start to see the races for 2010 in RI take shape and someone(s) is likely to pick this issue up as part of mayoral and gubernatorial campaigns.

[Pseudo_Work]

At the final session there was talk of having three transit centers, the train station, K. Plaza, and someplace in the JD. RIPTA states that if K. Plaza where an area where busses pass through, rather then terminate as they do now, that K. Plaza could actually serve more riders, in less space, with fewer buses. A north/south transitway is theorized connecting those three transit centers and an east/west route. North-south was more discussed and it was proposed that BRT should run there in advance of an eventual streetcar line. North-south routes were identified where streetcars could actually fit (i.e. Dyer, Dorrance, Exchange...).

As for "Transit 2020", the person in the Mayor's Office who was heading it up is no longer in the Mayor's Office and I have heard nothing of anyone taking over the project. However, I suspect on November 5th (or whenever we find out who's going to Pennsylvania Avenue in January) we'll start to see the races for 2010 in RI take shape and someone(s) is likely to pick this issue up as part of mayoral and gubernatorial campaigns.

[simontenders]

Well, its encouraging to hear that the bus system might be redesigned in a way that anticipates rail.

As for the argument that a bad economy precludes big plans (like a rail system), I don't completely buy it. Consider that Robert Moses built some of his most ambitious road projects in the middle of the Great Depression, financed by New Deal money...in other words, when the political will is there, a bad economy can force a rethinking of entrenched ways.

So, if the political landscape is shifting, locally and nationally, great. But we who use mass transit (or would like to) should be fighting for a better system now, rather than waiting for the chimerical Balancing of the Budget.

[Cotuit]

So, if the political landscape is shifting, locally and nationally, great. But we who use mass transit (or would like to) should be fighting for a better system now, rather than waiting for the chimerical Balancing of the Budget.

[mental757]

just to be clear on the 2 point posted here earlier:

1. There is an agreement in place for 8 MBTA trains to serve the new Airport station and Wickford.

2. Funding is in place. RIDOT has made a commitment to the project. A small portion of the funding is tied to question 1 on this year's ballot. If it gets voted down, then RIDOT is responsible to find the funds from another source.

This has all been stated in the news coverage on the intermodal station ove the last week or so.

[FjmArch]

just to be clear on the 2 point posted here earlier:

1. There is an agreement in place for 8 MBTA trains to serve the new Airport station and Wickford.

2. Funding is in place. RIDOT has made a commitment to the project. A small portion of the funding is tied to question 1 on this year's ballot. If it gets voted down, then RIDOT is responsible to find the funds from another source.

This has all been stated in the news coverage on the intermodal station ove the last week or so.

[frymasterspeck]

...if there is some "grassroots" organization, I'd lend a hand.

[simontenders]

As it happens, our next workshop ("cafes" we call them) focuses on the topic of transit. It's Thursday, December 11th, 8:30 - 11:00 AM in the New Commons studio. Our guest panel is Garry Bliss who needs no introduction on this thread, RIPTA Dir. of Finance Libby Shuey, and a well-known but as-yet-unbooked grassroots expert.