2030 Transit Plan

[Bled_man]

The observer is reporting that Tober announced that the FTA will help fund the Northeast line. They have not been able to confirm this with anyone at the FTA, so I am not sure what to believe. I hope this is true because if the FTA does not fund it, it will probably mean that the line will not be built.

[RiverwoodCLT]

I think the fed will hold their commit on this until the election is over and the tax is not repeal.

[JBGB]

I saw on the news last night they are haveing a problem with people running threw the gates and destroying them. West Blvd. and Park Ave. have already had a few gates broken and there still testing. It sounds like they'll buy new ones with tax payers money. How much do those things cost? Cause the ticket for running threw it is only $175. They have to cost more than that right?

[Charlotte_native]

It should be noted that most of the stations south of Dilworth are pretty much located in the middle of wastelands and it remains to be seen how many people will board at these stations once the initial amazement at the LRT dies down.

[ChiefJoJo]

The observer is reporting that Tober announced that the FTA will help fund the Northeast line. They have not been able to confirm this with anyone at the FTA, so I am not sure what to believe. I hope this is true because if the FTA does not fund it, it will probably mean that the line will not be built.

[nowensone]

I saw on the news last night they are haveing a problem with people running threw the gates and destroying them. West Blvd. and Park Ave. have already had a few gates broken and there still testing. It sounds like they'll buy new ones with tax payers money. How much do those things cost? Cause the ticket for running threw it is only $175. They have to cost more than that right?

[Neo]

Really? Was the Blue Line built with any Federal help?

A great deal of info can be found through this thread regarding this and other facts but yes, 50% of the blue line was funded with federal funding. 25% came from North Carolina with the remainder being ponied up by CATS.

[atlrvr]

Perhaps, CATS should set its priorities for future transit lines based on polling results on a precinct basis.....if the northern town polls show overwhelming opposition to the tax, then I see no reason that they should be next in line for rail.

People against the tax keep using the terms like "not good transit" or "inefficient".....I've followed this thread pretty closely, and I can say that I recall a single explanation of what good transit would be.....I believe Metro.M suggested that it should be almost all rail based, as bus service isn't the solution, but people like Puckett argue that it should be no rail, and all bus.....apparantly the anti-tax crowd both agree that a combination of bus and trains is the worst idea....

Really, this seems like a chicken-egg argument. How do you curb sprawl withouth high-density, and how do you support high-density without transit capable of relieving congestion.....in all honesty, if we kill the tranist tax, then it would make more sense to put everyone on 0.5 acre lots, with random office parks......our own private NJ.

[Spartan]

Perhaps, CATS should set its priorities for future transit lines based on polling results on a precinct basis.....if the northern town polls show overwhelming opposition to the tax, then I see no reason that they should be next in line for rail.

People against the tax keep using the terms like "not good transit" or "inefficient".....I've followed this thread pretty closely, and I can't say that I recall a single explanation of what good transit would be.....I believe Metro.M suggested that it should be almost all rail based, as bus service isn't the solution, but people like Puckett argue that it should be no rail, and all bus.....apparantly the anti-tax crowd both agree that a combination of bus and trains is the worst idea....

Really, this seems like a chicken-egg argument. How do you curb sprawl withouth high-density, and how do you support high-density without transit capable of relieving congestion.....in all honesty, if we kill the tranist tax, then it would make more sense to put everyone on 0.5 acre lots, with random office parks......our own private NJ.

[monsoon]

....

People against the tax keep using the terms like "not good transit" or "inefficient".....I've followed this thread pretty closely, and I can say that I recall a single explanation of what good transit would be.....I believe Metro.M suggested that it should be almost all rail based, as bus service isn't the solution, but people like Puckett argue that it should be no rail, and all bus.....apparantly the anti-tax crowd both agree that a combination of bus and trains is the worst idea....

......

[clt29301]

Are you talking about Tucker Mitchell's article in the Herald? From what I read, I am not sure how you think he is supporting repeal.....Mitchell's statements were ....against repeal, next question....and killing the tax doesn't make much sense either. Was there something else that you are talking about?

[nyxmike]

The towns of the North have been much more responsible in this area, but after a decade and 1/2 in waiting for CATS to provide solutions to the transit issues in the area, nothing is forthcoming. My motivations are not the same as that of some of the people that you mention, but at least in the lake area, I don't know why the people there should continued to be taxed to build a plan that isn't going to benefit the area one iota. This is why Iredell walked away from it and why, I suspect the paper no longer supports it either.

[monsoon]

Are you talking about Tucker Mitchell's article in the Herald? From what I read, I am not sure how you think he is supporting repeal.....Mitchell's statements were ....against repeal, next question....and killing the tax doesn't make much sense either. Was there something else that you are talking about?

[Charlotte_native]

Besides the town of Davidson, I find the lake area to be just as sprawling as anywhere else in the metro. They have some decent developments, but most of them seem so disconnected from everything else. Just my opinion...

[monsoon]

^Except of course there are no plans to put rail anywhere close to this part of the Lake. The area you mention, BTW was all approved by Mecklenburg county when they still made zoning approvals, and it does represent some of the worst aspects of Charlotte planning. Cornelius does have on the books to completely revamp this part of the former Hwy 73, to a pedestrian oriented tree-lined street pretty much to match the other side of I-77 which IMO is one of the best strolling streets in the county. Most of the businesses on that street donated property free of charge for the project. The reason it isn't moving forward is there isn't any money to change it.

Rather than characterize these people as you have, I would say the real problem is that CATS isn't providing them ANY solutions that would make it possible for them to get out of their cars. This is why the 2030 Plan should be scrapped.

[wheatie]

^Except of course there are no plans to put rail anywhere close to this part of the Lake. The area you mention, BTW was all approved by Mecklenburg county when they still made zoning approvals, and it does represent some of the worst aspects of Charlotte planning. Cornelius does have on the books to completely revamp this part of the former Hwy 73, to a pedestrian oriented tree-lined street pretty much to match the other side of I-77 which IMO is one of the best strolling streets in the county. Most of the businesses on that street donated property free of charge for the project. The reason it isn't moving forward is there isn't any money to change it.

Rather than characterize these people as you have, I would say the real problem is that CATS isn't providing them ANY solutions that would make it possible for them to get out of their cars. This is why the 2030 Plan should be scrapped.

[monsoon]

^Exactly my point and why the 2030 plan should be scrapped.

[atlrvr]

But I don't understand a better alternative, except for there to be even more rail lines, including some cross town routes.

The point of the 2030 plan isn't to serve 100% of the residents, because let's face it, if you have chosen to live on a cul-de-sac, you are probably not interested in riding transit.....instead, the 2030 plan says, "ok, there will be X new residents to the county by 2030" and only enough room and road infrastrucutre to accomodated some number smaller than X, so we will install the infrastructure, and zone the areas around the stations to accomodate the excess in people. Presumably, the market shakes things out so that people that want to take transit end up living next to transit stations, and the people who don't live in lower density portions of the city.

[mshook]

I think you've summed it up best. It's not about today's population...it's about the population in 20 years and putting the infrastructure in place ahead of time. It's a shame that many will pay for something that they may never use, but it appears as though it will make for a better tomorrow for others. Like Homeless shelters...(I pray I'll never need one) my tax money pays for them, but I know it's for the greater good.

[Charlotte_native]

Rather than characterize these people as you have, I would say the real problem is that CATS isn't providing them ANY solutions that would make it possible for them to get out of their cars. This is why the 2030 Plan should be scrapped.

[atlrvr]

Dilworth is precincts 9 and 10, I'm willing to stake my entire UP reputation (for whatever that's worth) that those precincts will not favor the repeal. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if they are among the highest pro-transit voters in the city, because #1., they benefit from it the most, #2., they spite any ultra-conservatitve initiatives, #3., the republicans in the neighborhood are typically pro-transit (as Pat Mumford illustrates), #4. They are typically wealthy enough, that 1/2 cent doesn't concern them as much as poorer democratic strongholds.

I feel confident that I'll be quoting this post again in 7 months.

[monsoon]

Per the discussion last spring in which Dilworth residents were accused of being anti-transit, and I defended them.

Precincts 9 and 10 voted 87% and 90% against repeal, respectively......in doing a quick search of precincts on the issue, the only precinct that had a greater share of pro-tax votesers was #11 (3rd and 4th Wards)

[cinco]

imo, charlotte made the right choice in keeping this plan running. i was, like most, shocked at the overwhelming support of keeping the transit tax. however, i would not confuse this public support, as a rubber stamp for CATS. they will continue to be scrutinized and will need to tighten their reins (so to speak).

for people who voted for repeal and want "better" transit - i believe this is the best opportunity you could have. tober's out, new guy/girl is in... momentum forward. attend the meetings, voice your opinions, hire dubone to draw you up some graphs and maps... here is your chance.

*btw, i went to traindrain.com ..... the phrase "sore loser" comes to mind.

[monsoon]

.....

*btw, i went to traindrain.com ..... the phrase "sore loser" comes to mind.

[atlrvr]

Instead of all the money spent on both sides on this issue, we could have probably extended several stations to accept three-vehicle train-sets....now that would have been worthwhile.

The ONLY thing to come of all this is that MORE money has been wasted, and that the public has reaffirmed that they'd rather pay a 1/2 cent tax to support transit than not for whatever reason.

I think the fact that less than 75% of the people who signed a petition voted for the repeal once it made the ballot speaks volumes. I can't imagine any instance that a petition drive receives more volume of support than the actual measure.

EDIT....Further, as I've stated before, no anti-transit candidate has won an at-large seat on city-council since the tax was first introduced. I'm not sure how it can be any more clear that people in Charlotte support transit. To blame this on advertising, money spent, misleading ballots, etc. is ridiculous. It's a 40% margin of victory...Beverly Earle who spent almost no money, didn't show up to debates, and wasn't the incumbent, only suffered a 22% defeat....I think the voters were very well aware, and dismissing the public as ignorant is miscategorizing 70% of the people who cared enough to show up in the first place.