Proposed I-410

[buckett5425]

Buckett, urban sprawl will happen as long as people can afford it. Sprawl exist in Atlanta because the city doesn't provide the services that the suburbanites demand and because land is much more affordable in the suburbs.

There's no stopping it. While Baton Rouge may see an influx of yuppies and old folks in the inner cities, I can guarantee you that people with children are going to flock to the best school districts.

Until Baton Rouge proper does something about the leadership in the school system, then change will never happen. What you might eventually see is other neighborhoods breaking off from the district, but that's the best hope that it has. If that happens, the yuppies will simply stay in town when they have children instead of moving out.

I hope that this loop has as few exits as possible with very controlled growth along the corridor. Only then will the loop actually serve as a loop, which is a way to get thru traffic off the I-10/I-12 corridor. I also hope that it is accompanied with another item that Baton Rouge desperately needs: a new bridge over the Mississippi River and a new bridge over the Amite.

I don't see people moving closer to their employers by staying in the cities. I see their employers moving closer to their employees. I think for Baton Rouge, that is the trend for the next several decades, with few exceptions.

People will continue to live in the suburbs as long as they can afford it, why, because people are dumb and think its a great idea to live 40 min from where you work, and then complain about a long comute. As soon as gas goes back up, and it will, everyone will start talking about public transport and density again, etc. But its ignorant to say "well there is nothing we can do about it" because there are plenty of things we can do, you just have to want to make them happen. Engineers always think, bigger is better, when clearly, its not....

Secondly, how much longer can we afford to build this infrastructure that allows people to live this suburban life style. Our state government has no money to even repave the roads, regardless of tying to widen them. Wouldn't that money be better spent on improving education, which is something our inner cities lack? hmm

[cajun]

People will continue to live in the suburbs as long as they can afford it, why, because people are dumb and think its a great idea to live 40 min from where you work, and then complain about a long comute.

That's, great Buckett....attack the suburbanites because they can't afford tuition in the city.

The truth is that if Baton Rouge (and most other American cities) had it's act together, people wouldn't be leaving the city as soon as they have children. It's simply not an option unless you have money or if you condone pathetic public schools. Great place to be for college students, yuppies, and rich people...but for those of us middle income folks without the means to spend $4000 a year per kid in a private school, there are way better places to live.

People would rather drive 40 minutes to work and back if it means that their children can live in a community with some quality of life. Some are willing to pay $12 per day for a park n ride. Some are willing to fight with DART to live in an affordable neighborhood with good child care and safe parks.

If you want to correctly end sprawl, then fix the schools and take steps to reduce crime. Once that is done, all of these other problems will solve themselves. Attacking people who live in suburban areas and not citing the reasons why they left in the first place is very short sighted, and it just farther proves that us middle income folks are not even wanted in the city. That animosity is one of the reasons why I left Louisiana.

Baton Rouge schools are a joke. Crime is up. Traffic is no better in Baton Rouge than in Ascension or Livingston. The people are not willing to support tax increases to pay for better city services, as evident in the most recent elections- no different than Livingston or Ascension.

That's all the information that I need. I'll check back when the public schools are split up and the "as long as it's better than New Orleans" attitude on crime is gone. Otherwise, my wife and my daughter are going to live in a comfortable home in a safe neighborhood and we will take advantage of the great public schools in the area- none of which are in Baton Rouge.

I've lived in Baton Rouge, Seattle, Dallas, Houston, and Atlanta. Trust me, Baton Rouge isn't in a position to put down or attack the character or intelligence of people in suburban neighborhoods.

This loop is going to open up areas INSIDE of East Baton Rouge for development

It's going to include at least one new bridge, which will benefit the economy of the entire region

It's going to help reduce traffic on I-10 and I-12, hopefully reducing the need to expropriate neighborhoods and widen the city's interstates.

They are going to utilize tolls...so if you don't like the freeway, then you don't have to pay.

[dan326]

I'm sure that schools play a big role in people moving to the suburbs, but isn't the main reason people want to move to the is suburbs because they want a big new house and a "safe" "quiet" environment? I just say that because it seems like everytime I hear about somebody moving to the suburbs, they mainly talk about how they're going to get a cheaper/bigger house. I'd say suburbs are more about prestige, status, and "look what I have and you don't" deep down than anything else, but that just me.

Also, why is hurricane evacuation so important? New Orleans hasn't been evacuated but twice recently and after Katrina everybody learned to get out early to avoid traffic.

[cajun]

isn't the main reason people want to move to the is suburbs because they want a big new house and a "safe" "quiet" environment?

A house is a house to most people. Safe and quiet are what people are after, but the main reason is and will always be public schools. If Baton Rouge spent the money on cleaning out the crime- particularly violent crime, theft, and drug abuse- as well as split up their school districts, then it could easily compete and overtake the suburbs in quality of life.

There are neigborhoods in Baton Rouge that are safe and quiet (if you can afford them), but there are none with good public schools. The traffic argument is weak as well, considering surface street traffic in town is just as much of a disaster as the freeways.

Americas most trendy cities don't offer decent public schools. They depend on an influx of yuppies to keep the place thriving. If Baton Rouge can solve this problem, they'd be miles ahead of the curve...especially for this region.

Until then, the locals need to understand that their most desirable areas for most people are in the suburbs, and to stop ignoring and complaining about them. I'll go as far as to say that the quality of life in most American cities depends on the quality of the suburbs.

[buckett5425]

The suburbs are the epitome of everything that is unsustainable about the American way of life...a bigger house and a car. People do move to the suburbs to have more land for cheep, and a bigger house to put on it. Dont get my wrong, I want a big nice house and car too one day, but, i know that if our society continues down that path, we are going to get nowhere....

Now Cajun, im not saying your ideas dont have merit, because they do, I just dont believe that is the main reason for people living out in the suburbs, but im sure it plays a huge part in some peoples decisions, when trying to get their kids the best education.

You are right when you say urban centers are a great place for yuppies and retirees. But in a decade, all of these yuppies are going to be having kids, and I dont foresee them leaving the city from which they have grown to love so much. By that time, im sure they will have begun to solve many of the inner city school problems, and then again, cities will be a desirable place to live for the yuppie's kids to grow up. Note the time table here, i believe this will begin to happen within a decade. Its going to take a decade just to finish the loop. Which means by the time the loop is finished, its basically going to be useless, because HOPEFULLY, people will have begun to change how and where they live their daily lives. BUT at least this new, now rendered useless, loop wont be paid for with public money.

As for adding a new bridge, yes, it will benefit the local economy. But, it also lets Joe Six pack and his 2.3 kids live south of plaquemine in their four bedroom house, and then commute 40 min to work everyday....I just really hope everyone sees whats wrong with that picture....

[bobby255BR]

I wouldn't go as far as saying all Baton Rouge schools suck because that would be totally untrue. Just like most school districts its size, it has a hand full of good schools, some pretty bad schools, and those that lie in the middle. Like someone said Dutchtown High is nothing but Woodlawn High. In my beliefs, the suburbs can only shield folks away from reality for so long. Its only a matter of time before places like Ascension, Livingston, Zachary, and St. Francisville become unsafe. Not only are middle class people moving to those areas, but people in search of jobs and we all know that with growth comes crime. Indeed, Baton Rouge has its share of crime compared to those listed, but that's to be expected considering it's population. Like I tell my parents, you can only run for so long before you have to take a stand.

[cajun]

The suburbs are the epitome of everything that is unsustainable about the American way of life...a bigger house and a car. People do move to the suburbs to have more land for cheep, and a bigger house to put on it. Dont get my wrong, I want a big nice house and car too one day, but, i know that if our society continues down that path, we are going to get nowhere....

Now Cajun, im not saying your ideas dont have merit, because they do, I just dont believe that is the main reason for people living out in the suburbs, but im sure it plays a huge part in some peoples decisions, when trying to get their kids the best education.

You are right when you say urban centers are a great place for yuppies and retirees. But in a decade, all of these yuppies are going to be having kids, and I dont foresee them leaving the city from which they have grown to love so much. By that time, im sure they will have begun to solve many of the inner city school problems, and then again, cities will be a desirable place to live for the yuppie's kids to grow up. Note the time table here, i believe this will begin to happen within a decade. Its going to take a decade just to finish the loop. Which means by the time the loop is finished, its basically going to be useless, because HOPEFULLY, people will have begun to change how and where they live their daily lives. BUT at least this new, now rendered useless, loop wont be paid for with public money.

As for adding a new bridge, yes, it will benefit the local economy. But, it also lets Joe Six pack and his 2.3 kids live south of plaquemine in their four bedroom house, and then commute 40 min to work everyday....I just really hope everyone sees whats wrong with that picture....

I agree with you on sustainability...but in reality, there are several reasons that I support this loop.

1. Anything to prevent them from having to rip out half of the Perkins Overpass area to widen I-10 through town to the necessary 10 lanes.

2. I have all the faith in the world that the leadership in the public schools are concerned more with power and their own jobs than the children they work for. I'm sick of them, and I would never vote in favor of a tax unless I see major changes happening. Schools are failing and they are complaining about the state taking over is pathetic. Someone has to try something new, and it's clearly business as usual at the school board office.

3. Economic development, pure and simple.

4. Eventually, Baton Rouge will be completely out of vacant space in town, and will be forced to grow out. This combined with business moving closer to their employees is not a bad thing if done smartly. Don't think that the best suburban growth Louisiana can accomplish is Kenner or Livingston. Visit Seattle to see the distinctive outlying communities there, all networked with highways, bridges, and a great public transit.

We can have it all, but we need to be more open minded and understanding of why the growth trends are the way that they are in America.

What kind of home, neighborhood, and public school would you be involved with in Baton Rouge proper if your home budget is $200,000 or less. Not all of us have the means to live in Baton Rouge....I lived in Seattle proper and Dallas when I was single, but I have a daughter to worry about now. I can get the life I want in Baton Rouge, but not with this salary and certainly not with children in tow.

[richyb83]

The BR area has overgrown it's boundries..too much unchecked development; wildly scattered about. Plenty of gaping holes of undeveloped land to have lots of Smart Growth.

While these schools systems are a better alternative than most of EBR; it too will continued to be strained and eventually weighed down. They too (Ascension, Livingston, Central) are overcrowding and strapped for cash. EBR Schools are undergoing a transitional phase & cross roads..hopefully some more positive strides will be made. Some of the schools are old & dilapadated...however there are many "brand-new" nice state-of-the-art scools filled with the latest technology! I work in the EBR System as a Educational Interpreter for the Hearing-Impaired with mostly inner city students.

Sad thing is... my wife is a school teacher out in Livingston; so our little girl(almost 2) will probably end up going to school there too. But I will always stand my ground in EBR(live here). I live in a quite neighborhood in the Millerville area with great acess to the nearby I-12.

What happens when crime infiltrates these areas too?? I have these discussions often with my brother(lives in Ascension) & cousin in Livingston Parish; which has become the " Crystal Meth" Capital of Louisiana. You are not really safe rural/exurb "White Flight Estates" either..

[richyb83]

I hate to burst Mr Ourso's bubble; in the end the WBR Addis/Brusly location makes better sense; going down to Iberville would more distance adding to what looks to be an 80-mile loop! This situation could gett messy on the west side of the "Mighty Mississip"??

Debate mixed about loop....Opinions differ on where to build bridge over river??

Iberville Parish President J. Mitchell Ourso Jr. doesn

[southeastBR]

I don't care where they put it, just start building the thing!

[cajun]

I'd have to agree...Addis is the only logical location.

Now start building the damn thing....and they might as well get started on the bridge and it's approach right now, since it alone will take 5 years.

Ourso should can it. He'll be 3 minutes from the bridge.

[buckett5425]

So I already made my case for why i dont support the loop and feel no reason to bring that up anymore, I know Im right, haha

But regardless, from now Ill simply talk about the loop ignoring that part of my opinion.

I agree, the bridge doesn't need to be that far south, its just stupid, it doesn't need justification!

[southeastBR]

I think Addis is the ideal location for the bridge. I just can't see any advantage for it being way down by White Castle. I saw in the Advocate, the people down in Iberville Parish don't want it down there any way. They really should have built two Miss. river bridges back when they built the interstate, I mean even Natchez has two.

[richyb83]

Here's the pic in this mornings paper southeastBR is speaking of....

Yeah..that southern-most route dipping way below; btwn Plquemine & White Castle is just plain STUPID!! It even looks stupid on the map! Route S-3 in Addis/Brusly is a no brainer!!

It looks like my proposed route("in RED") I posted months back...

There are people that want it there; their mostly silent though; but alot of NIMBY's...they want a loop.."just not here"..some just want it built"

Addis against loop bridge

http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/41957827.html

[cajun]

THe people that showed up to the meeting are against the loop. Bad title by the Advocate.

And sorry if you live in Addis, but it's the best place for one by far, and it's more than likely going to be put right there. There's one person in the article that just built a house there....this was in the planned route since 2006, so he shouldn't be complaining if they give him a fair price.

That's the downside of moving to the suburbs. Sometimes we have to sacrifice a house or two for the greater good.

[richyb83]

No suprise here; just more of the same...Central rejects 2 of the 3 proposed routes; only the northern-most loop would be considered?? This probably would take the loop up between Baker & Zachary. Is this loop gonna happen at all?? Central has a city center ???

Central balks at loop routes....Mayor: Two plans would bisect city

Mayor Mac Watts said those routes are not consistent with the city's new master plan, which aims to limit commercial development to only a few corridors within the city. I dont want it through the middle of Central, Watts said. I don't want the walls up, splitting Central in half.

The third option would take the loop through the northern, less-developed areas of Central.

Bob Breaux, the president of Central's Chamber of Commerce, said there is some openness to the loop among the local business community if the route avoids the city's center. But said he does not want to move the focus away from the planned widening of Hooper and Sullivan roads or the possibility of extending Hooper eastward.

That is something that we can drive on in our lifetime, Breaux said. The loop is something we need to work on, but I'm not certain that some of us are ever going to see it. I'm not buying the 10 years.

http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/42108897.html

[cajun]

The northernmost loop is probably the best in the long run, but not the cheapest.

[cajun]

So I already made my case for why i dont support the loop and feel no reason to bring that up anymore, I know Im right, haha

Apparently I just read some of the same material you did (James Howard Kunstler?)

I'm starting to re-think this loop as well....still support new bridges, but from what I understand, these things essentially have to go with as few exits as possible to prevent unwanted blight in the city center and unsightly retail development along the loop.

Since Holden is pushing for private investment dollars to fund a toll road, they will be putting as many exits as they can to increase traffic on this thing to pay itself off and provide the return on investment as soon as possible. More exits mean more opportunity for new development, which would be a bad thing in this case.

My solution:

-Widen Airline Hwy to six lanes from Florida Blvd to Plank and btw Jefferson and Gonzales....utilize the edge of the right of way to provide at least a 45' median for easy U turns and bike path and hopefully enough room for a 4 lane freeway in the future, if it's needed at all. Do the same thing to Florida Blvd btw Florida and Denham Springs.

-Build a new, four lane road connecting Airline in WBR to I-10 somewhere west of LA 415 and upgrade the existing road to limited access freeway standards from I-110 to I-10 including a new bridge.

-Build a new cable stay bridge in Brusly and connect it with the Essen/Staring/Gardere corridor with a typical four or five lane surface street with subsurface drainage, a crap load of green space on the foot of the bridge on both sides, and as few traffic lights and retail development as possible.

-Build a new freeway from Brusly to I-10 west of LA 415

-Widen and upgrade greenwell Springs Road in anticipation for future residential growth in Central

-Build a new 4 lane bridge between Hooper Road and Watson. Name it after Les Miles.

-Widen Nicholson to 4 lanes all the way out to Ascension.....eventually.

That being said, I have no idea how to un-squeeze traffic on I-10 through town, which is obviously making downtown unattractive for development. It's eventually going to have to be replaced simply because it's old as hell. I don't want to be anywhere near this town when that happens.

If they do any part of the loop, I'd still like them to go with the northern section and leave it at that.

[buckett5425]

Interesting stuff cajun.

I have never heard of James Howard Kunstler but I just did some light research on the man. I do disagree with some of his opinions, but as a whole, i think hes got some great stuff that needs to be heard. Here is a ten minute video I just watched about suburbia that is pretty interesting.

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/james_h...s_suburbia.html

[cajun]

Interesting stuff cajun.

I have never heard of James Howard Kunstler but I just did some light research on the man. I do disagree with some of his opinions, but as a whole, i think hes got some great stuff that needs to be heard. Here is a ten minute video I just watched about suburbia that is pretty interesting.

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/james_h...s_suburbia.html

IDK much about him. I just read one of his books that I found at Barnes and Nobles. Really dry, kinda boring, but informative.

I kinda wish we had some sort of urban planner or traffic engineer on this message board. Everyone has ideas and opinions....obviously this isn't my expertise.

[richyb83]

Nice ideas cajun! Some kind of Essen/Staring extension/spur should connect the southern-loop(bypass)...

Good video from WBRZ...we have said numerous times the bridge should go between Addis/Brusly in WBR and not down in Iberville...

Toll bridge planning continues

A field trip on the river teaches leaders more about what goes into planning for the Baton Rouge loop.

http://www.2theadvocate.com/wbrz/videos/53509412.html

[dan326]

I sure hope it happens, it would be so neat if our city got a loop.

[cajun]

They decided recently to go with the "south of addis" route for the second bridge location for the southern leg of the loop.

I'm impressed in the speed in which this project is getting off the ground. Since they've decided it will be a private toll road, it's really starting to come together. I'd like to see them start on the northern (Walker to WBR) and south-western (Ascension to WBR) soon. The bridge alignments and construction take forever.

I hope that we can eventually rework the 10/110 split. It's a nightmare, and it's dangerous.

The preliminaries included a bike trail and "green space" setbacks alongside the road. Any idea if those are still planned? There's no "bike safe" route over the Mississippi River in this state that I can think of.

[richyb83]

Having the new bridge in WBR only makes sense; the Iberville dog-leg semi-mini-loop around Plaquemine would be a waste..the investors do not want this. This new south of Addis route looks to be a compromise; but is near the bend in the river.... Alot of NIMBY's w/ Brusly-Addis route; the area has really grown the past few years. Seems like that route would be better.

I think you will see plenty of greenspace remain; remember reading something with the bikes lanes...but still not sure either??

Loop plan adds Addis bridge

The south Addis route and the route between Addis and Brusly will be programmed into a computer model to see which location for a bridge is easier to navigate the river, Bruce said. That simulation data will be used as a factor in picking a river crossing.

http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/61626147.html

That northern-route looks afflicted; looks like they dropped some spaghetti on the map

[cajun]

That northern-route looks afflicted; looks like they dropped some spaghetti on the map

Yeah...well, it takes a solid hour and 20 to get from LA415 to Walker if you it Baton Rouge a, oh, say 5:15 or so in the evening.

Assuming the whole loop is approximately 80 miles, and the northern section is about half (40 miles). 40 miles at 60 mph is 40 minutes, which is about 40 minutes of time saved. I'd pay a toll for that.

I suppose the twist and turns are what we get when 3 river crossings are combined with scattered residential development.