West

[JT698]

A friend who was up their recently said of RBC Plaza's pool: "I saw guys laying the liner with my very own eyes. They will have a very large hole to fill up if they have cancelled it."

Any updates for retail locations in this building? I last heard nothing was signed.

[orulz]

This project kind of seems to have finished anticlimactically, with very little fanfare... at least not here. Just thought I'd point out that the North Street streetscape looks pretty damn good with all the fencing and scaffolding gone. I can't quite tell exactly, but it looks like some sort of upfit might be going on in one of the spaces along North. The space at the corner of West and North is pretty big.

The one thing that is still missing, and I hope wasn't dropped, are those big red awnings. At night, you can see the bright lights from the parking deck through the openings above the retail spaces, and it looks pretty bad.

[ChiefJoJo]

This project kind of seems to have finished anticlimactically, with very little fanfare... at least not here. Just thought I'd point out that the North Street streetscape looks pretty damn good with all the fencing and scaffolding gone. I can't quite tell exactly, but it looks like some sort of upfit might be going on in one of the spaces along North. The space at the corner of West and North is pretty big.

The one thing that is still missing, and I hope wasn't dropped, are those big red awnings. At night, you can see the bright lights from the parking deck through the openings above the retail spaces, and it looks pretty bad.

No, the dark red awnings are definitely there. I saw them walking by in the last few days. I actually like this project better than 222. West is not what I'd call beautiful, but it's more pleasing to the eye than is 222, plus it is ready made to be transit-oriented. I'm not sure what material they used on the upper floors, but it looks less fake/cheap than the 222 stucco, plus the parking is incorporated into the structure rather than placed off to the side. It remains to be seen how well the retail spaces will do a full block and a half away from the main drag. While 222's spaces will be a slam dunk in terms of location, West could struggle a bit, especially as a fairly sizable number of units remain unsold (from what I've heard).

FYI, I don't think units close until late October/early November, so it's not quite finished.

[Jones_]

^ amen. Superior building to 222 but sub-par location for the retail.

[RaleighRob]

They'll have to get some "Destination Retail" to fill those spaces...things that people will go to specifically for them, and not depend on casual walk-by's, drive-by's, etc. Which, if you think about it, describes most of the other retail along N. West Street (like Purple Armchair, Primp, etc).

[Jones_]

...and with enough destination things in one place, those reliant on random walk-bys begin to stand a chance. Walkby traffic can only ever be so much when you are at a dead end though, like West is with North Street. Also Harrington is a rarely used street because of its northern terminus....if it aligned with the Capital Blvd/Peace exit with a nice traffic signal with pedestrian crossings, then you start to generate traffic entering the downtown grid from that point. Also, Lane does not punch through to West street making (vehicle)traffic circulation horrible if you ever had alot of traffic in the area. Jones is one way out of the area so it does nothing to bring people into the area by vehicle. If you filled up the whole block between North, Harrington, West and Peace with mid-rise apartments (maybe some commercial on the Peace frontage) then you have critical mass for services that would need to exist in say, West or even in Quorum's punch-out commercials spaces. The big-ideas book topic about re-griding would certainly include North Street, and would bring clear benefits to potential business owners in this area.

[RaleighRob]

Also, Lane does not punch through to West street making (vehicle)traffic circulation horrible if you ever had alot of traffic in the area. Jones is one way out of the area so it does nothing to bring people into the area by vehicle.

Fortunately, I think Jones and Lane are the next "pair" of one-ways to be converted to two-way streets. Cross your fingers.

[orulz]

Fortunately, I think Jones and Lane are the next "pair" of one-ways to be converted to two-way streets. Cross your fingers.

Jones & Lane are definitely in the city's plans. They will probably also be the last two-way conversions, aside from completing the conversions that have already begun. Morgan will probably stay one-way east of Dawson, and Edenton will probably stay one-way clear through town. Blount and Person would be nice too, but I don't think anyone's really seriously considered them for conversion.

I agree that a two way conversion of Jones would be great for the area. I'd like to see Quorum's retail spaces that were alloted for in the base of the parking deck filled in, and this might help.

.

[cthayes75]

Jones & Lane are definitely in the city's plans. They will probably also be the last two-way conversions, aside from completing the conversions that have already begun. Morgan will probably stay one-way east of Dawson, and Edenton will probably stay one-way clear through town. Blount and Person would be nice too, but I don't think anyone's really seriously considered them for conversion.

I agree that a two way conversion of Jones would be great for the area. I'd like to see Quorum's retail spaces that were alloted for in the base of the parking deck filled in, and this might help.

.

I'm telling you, I wouldn't count on Jones becoming 2-way. Do you really think the members of the General Assembly are going to give up their on-street parking on both sides of Jones?

I highly doubt it. They'll pass a bill like they did with the special Green Square bill that bars DOT from making Jones 2-way or something sneaky like that.

[JeffC]

Actually, only the least powerful legislators have to park on the street...the real bigwigs have the spots under the LB and the LOB. Those are mainly staff...and most who work in the area would support increased accessibility to and from that area allowed by two way streets...and Lane definitely needs to be punched through to West, which would require only the loss of a dusty unpaved overflow parking lot for 42nd street Oyster Bar...

[RaleighRob]

^^ Hope we're not going off-topic too much, but Jones at the Legislative building is wide enough for two travel lanes plus parking on either side. All they'd have to do is turn half the other direction around, like was done on Lenoir and South.

[RaleighRob]

Update: word is that folks are now moving into the condos at The West.

[ncwebguy]

While walking around on Saturday, I noticed two N&O's with unit numbers on them in front of the residents' lobby entrance on North, so people have moved in earlier than that. And I heard a car drive up into the deck while I was standing in front of the residental lobby.

The street level retail, however, is still untouched and has contact info in all windows. It will be interesting to see who/what goes in there. There is still one space in 222, left empty by the dual Italian restaurants that backed out of opening there, so there isn't much/any available space in/near Glenwood South other than West and the north end of warehouse just west of the train tracks/east of West.

The nearby office space on West Street used by Hillary Clinton's NC HQ still has her sign on the front, which makes that area feel a little deserted.

[ChiefJoJo]

I hear that the grand opening for West is thursday evening from 5-7pm. I assume this will be an open house style, so you should be able to come in and check out some of the units.

[dmccall]

I hear that the grand opening for West is thursday evening from 5-7pm. I assume this will be an open house style, so you should be able to come in and check out some of the units.

This is definitely an invitation-only party.

[North_Raleigh_Guy]

Does anyone know how many units in West at North have actually been sold at this point? On my way home from work tonigt it looked like there were only a handfull of lights on a few various floors. I get the impression it is still mostly empty at this point. If that is true, it makes me a little sad.

[Jones_]

They were behind 222 for interior finishes, which itself might not be completely finished inside each unit. Usually a developer will finish units as people need to move in, sometimes written into the contract. The N&O has consistently said West, 222 and Bloomsbury were over 50% sold. RBC was 100% sold, and Hue was something less than that.

[RaleighRob]

Does anyone know how many units in West at North have actually been sold at this point? On my way home from work tonigt it looked like there were only a handfull of lights on a few various floors. I get the impression it is still mostly empty at this point. If that is true, it makes me a little sad.

Well, dunno if lights are a good indication. Remember, much of the plus of living downtown is you can walk so many places, there's little need to be home much.

My apartment building is pretty much filled yet on any given night barely a third of the windows will be lit. And pretty much it's a safe bet even some of the dark ones have folks in there...doing, well, something...in the dark.

[ericurbanite]

Does anyone have any information for what retail will be coming here? Just curious and have not heard a word at all!

[miamiblue]

So it appears that some residents of West don't like the train whistles: http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/5079764/. They are petitioning the city to create "quiet zones" that would require some major overhauls of at-grade crossings, costing $300k-$400k per crossing.

I think this is fairly ridiculous for a few reasons:

1. This building should have been built with its proximity to the railroad in mind (after all, I'd say that there was fair warning that this could be an issue). Whether or not this is the case, I have no idea. But for what people are paying for those condos, they should have decent sound insulation.

2. The obvious - caveat emptor. No one held a gun to anyone's head and made them move to a place right next to what they knew to be an active railroad.

3. I live very close to a grade crossing in the same area and can deal with it. In fact, I kind of like it when I actually notice it. And I am nearly certain that my apartment was not built with the train noise in mind back in 1901.

[Captain Awesome]

2. The obvious - caveat emptor. No one held a gun to anyone's head and made them move to a place right next to what they knew to be an active railroad.

I'm guessing that some of the people who moved under RDU flight paths near the airport and then immediately began complaining about the noise have moved downtown.

[Jones_]

I'm guessing that some of the people who moved under RDU flight paths near the airport and then immediately began complaining about the noise have moved downtown.

[Gard]

^

Could be the same people who built McMansions adjacent to 540, only to cry about the noise from the highway 24/7 as well

Jokes aside, I don't think a train tooting its horn is the worst sound in the world. Doesn't bother me in the least anyways.

[RaleighRob]

Oy...this dude gives downtowners a bad image.

In my old 1930s apartment, I heard trains, fire engines, cop cars, trucks, Harley Davidsons, yelling people, car stereos and a constantly beeping ATM machine.

Other than the Harley Davidsons (which is annoying because the owners purposely make them louder) and the ATM machine (which was honestly louder than reasonably needed), I never really complained.

It's simply part of downtown living!

And I bet a hundred bucks it had way less sound insulation than his overpriced luxury condo. Cry me a river.

[orulz]

In all seriousness, I think a quiet zone isn't a bad idea for downtown. Even if the people living in West "should have known" about the noise, the train horns will certainly serve as a damper on development in the future.

I do, however, think that out of the three grade crossings in the area, one can be grade separated (West), one can be closed (Harrington) and only one really needs to remain (Jones).

West can be grade separated pretty easily since the tracks are basically at the top of a hill. Going south from the intersection of West & North, turning the existing 7% uphill grade into an 7% downhill grade will leave plenty of clearance below the tracks without changing the grade of North at all. Harrington is trickier, since any plan would have a direct impact on West (the condo building). So just close Harrington to cars. Maybe extend Lane to West, and build a pedestrian tunnel at Harrington. As for Jones - put in quad gates and then put up fences so pedestrians can't walk around them. Prohibit horns at the Jones St crossing, and there you have it: a quiet zone.