Mt Pleasant Is now South Carolina's 5th largest city

[Charles Pearson]

Let us know if we can make suggestions of things to do while you are here. I believe your other post says your visiting in November. Great time of year in Greenville. The days can still be moderate in temperature (though on the chilly side) and the nights cold. The air is usually crystal clear. Great time for hiking, kayaking, strolling downtown, etc. I'm a cool weather lover myself, so this time of year is exceptional to me.

Thanks! I will definitely let you know...and give my opinion of Greenville upon seeing it. I've often wondered what my life would have been like if I had gone UPSTATE after High School when I got an acceptance letter from a college call North Greenville in Tigerville?...but back then, I was sold on living in Charleston & wanted to be only in Charleston. I knew very little about Tigerville, which seemed too far away from the home of my parents in Florence Country...

...but I've wondered would have even come West to California if I had known Upstate South Carolina first?

[Charles Pearson]

p.s...i like the cold weather! Remember Mark Twain's coldest winter was a summer in San Francisco...and this JULY has lived up to that fact with lots of cold and fog...though, today is mild & rather warm at 65 degrees...

[Spartan]

I was in Anderson for a weekend in May and when I rode to Greenville that Saturday evening I was surprised to see how much country was along I-85 between Anderson and Greenville. And the exit to downtown Greenville from the interstate was lonely. Just me and my truck. This was 9 o'clock at night. By the way, I went into downtown Anderson before going to Greenville and there was not one soul anywhere. Just me and my truck. They must all go to downtown Greenville on Saturday night for their downtownin', and they must have already all been there when I got into downtown Greenville, because they sure weren't coming in off the interstate with me. Do the Spartanburgans come across the countryside from the other direction to Main Street Greenville as well?

People from Spartanburg are called "Spartans"

There are different ways to access downtown Greenville, and it varies depending on what side of town you are coming from. It involves taking I-585, I-26, SC290 or US-29 to 85 (or BL 85) then going to I-385 to downtown.

If you are talking about physical separation, then yeah, there is only a few miles of undeveloped land between Greenville and Spartanburg along the interstate. The distance is greater with Anderson. Distance should not be your sole judgement though.

[goodbye]

Anderson is rapidly developing north along highway 81 as well. This is a movement in the direction of Greenville, although it has a good way to go before actually meeting up in Wiliamston, Pelzer, or Piedmont. Some amenities many people in Greenville share with Anderson, Pickens, and Oconee are the great lakes nearby. In fact, they are some of the top most-visited man-made lakes in the nation.

[distortedlogic]

It's a lot more developed between Spartanburg and Greenville than between Anderson and Greenville (and closer, too). You can tell that Anderson is not linked to Greenville to the extent that Spartanburg is. More things are gradually developing between Greenville and Anderson (e.g., Powdersville and Piedmont), but it obviously has a long way to go.

I think that this may be a little misleading. Anderson is not as closely linked with Gville from the standpoint of sprawl and development, but I think it is more closely linked from the standpoint of more of it's inhabitants commute to Gville (half of the people I work with in DT live in Powdersville), Anderson is a little smaller and has less stores restaurants, etc than Spartanburg, and it is linked better by secondary roads than the intrstate. Spartanburg's link is more easily seen on the intestate, but as Spartan pointed out, there are secondary roads such as 29, which carries a lot of traffic. In response to Corgi, you can't take a momentary lack of traffic for very much, I remember being in DT atlanta a few years ago on the middle of a Saturday, and literally being the only car on that road at the time(a five lane road). I would guess that more Andersonians come to Gville than Spartans, becuase Sptbg is larger in itself and has more to do.

[distortedlogic]

You are off base. While the Upstate is tied together in many ways, Spartanburg and Anderson are by no means exurbs of Greenville. Spartanburg, like krazee said, has its own employment and corporate base. Spartanburg County nets a loss of about 900-1000 people to Greenville County. That is hardly a suburb, exurb, or whatever. Spartanburg is not reliant on Greenville for anything significant. Anderson appears to be slightly more reliant on Greenville, but I suspect that is largely because of Powdersville (an emerging suburb of Greenville) which is in NE Anderson County. If you were to redraw those lines for Spartanburg too, you'd find that Spartanburg's population would be about 150,000. Hardly a suburb. To people here, Greenville is just our neighboring city with whom we share many things- like our airport, and media outlets (TV/radio).

Actually my main point was in response to the question of whether or not a lot of RH growth is due to Charlotte. IMO it is. Not that RH is not a fine, liveable, and viable city of it's own, but that some of that, and a lot of it's growth, is due to Charlotte and it's proximity. I used SPtbg and Anderson as an example of how they (while they are also fine cities, viable in themselves) have taken advantage of Gville's seemingly greater growth and development over the past few decades. While I would not necesarily say that they are suburbs of Gville, I might argue they are exurbs due to their proximity, "smaller size" (let's not get into the pop numbers) and growth towards the principal upstate city, Greenville. Remember Spartan, just because you see spartanburg one way, it does not mean that other people do not see it another way, even if you don't like the image that Sptbg is a suburb, exurb or whatever. To many non-Spartans, Gville is more than just a neighboring city that share's an airport (remember the "how do other see spartanburg" thread); it is "the heart of the upstate" that leads the area in almost all facets. I agree that Sptbg is less dependant on Gville than anderson, but IMO, moreso than you like to think.

[krazeeboi]

Personally, I don't think it can be argued that Spartanburg is an exurb of Greenville. Perhaps if the Greenville MSA was closer to 1 million, while Spartanburg's was around 3-400K, then you might have a point. But as is, not really. It is definitely more of a Raleigh/Durham or Minneapolis/St. Paul situation.

[Spartan]

Actually I have always made it a point to be realistic about what Spartanburg is and is not. I always make an effort to not overstate its importance, or lack thereof. But for some reason there is a lot of misinformation about my hometown being thrown around (like that it is totally dependant on Greenville), and I will not be reserved about correcting that.

Your point about Rock Hill is taken, in principle.

[distortedlogic]

I never said it was "totally dependant" in fact, I said that it was a viable city on it's own. I just said that in my opinion, a good bit of it's recent growth and development is is due (at least in part) to Greenville's current success and development. This is just my opinion, and without a doubt you know Spartanburg much better than I. I am just going off my view of each city, and their roles in the upstate and region.

[g-man430]

Personally, I don't think it can be argued that Spartanburg is an exurb of Greenville. Perhaps if the Greenville MSA was closer to 1 million, while Spartanburg's was around 3-400K, then you might have a point. But as is, not really. It is definitely more of a Raleigh/Durham or Minneapolis/St. Paul situation.

Your right, that's why most of the time they say Greenville/Spartanburg on the Weather Channel instead of just one or the other.

[distortedlogic]

What is the actual definition of an exurb?

[Spartan]

exurb {sodEmoji.{sodEmoji.|}}?eks?rb{sodEmoji.{sodEmoji.|}} noun; a district outside a city, esp. a prosperous area beyond the suburbs.

[monsoon]

I never said it was "totally dependant" in fact, I said that it was a viable city on it's own. I just said that in my opinion, a good bit of it's recent growth and development is is due (at least in part) to Greenville's current success and development. This is just my opinion, and without a doubt you know Spartanburg much better than I. I am just going off my view of each city, and their roles in the upstate and region.

In the last 5 years Greenville has added a whopping 600 people to its city, and Spartanburg has lost about 1600. In other words neither city has changed much in 1/2 decade so I think it is a far stretch to say that one is more successful than the other. Unlike Rock Hill, which has added 9000 to it's city during this period, the metro growth in GSP is all sprawl centered arount the interstates outside of the political boundries of these cities and what is happening in the cities themselves is pretty irrelevant to this growth. They are indeed mini-Atlantas. This isn't the situation in Rock Hill.

[Spartan]

Undoubtedly Rock Hill has a lot of vacant or underutilized land. Greenville and Spartanburg are largely built out.

[Greenville]

In the last 5 years Greenville has added a whopping 600 people to its city, and Spartanburg has lost about 1600. In other words neither city has changed much in 1/2 decade so I think it is a far stretch to say that one is more successful than the other. Unlike Rock Hill, which has added 9000 to it's city during this period, the metro growth in GSP is all sprawl centered arount the interstates outside of the political boundries of these cities and what is happening in the cities themselves is pretty irrelevant to this growth. They are indeed mini-Atlantas. This isn't the situation in Rock Hill.

You stated here that it is not a valid comparison to compare Charlotte suburbs to Atlanta suburbs. You cited different development patterns to make your point. Well, if that is not valid, then there is absolutely no way that it is valid to compare the growth around Rock Hill to that around the Greenville-Spartanburg area.

Also, your growth numbers in the GSP area are very misleading. You cite city numbers as if they are a reflection of the growth of an area, when in this case (as well as most cases) they are not. Perhaps you are forgetting that Rock Hill has annexed like crazy (which makes it look like people are flocking to Rock Hill). Greenville, on the other hand, has a very small city limit and appears to not have grown at all if you look solely at that. Your assumption that "the metro growth in GSP is all sprawl centered around the interstates" is quite a statement, especially since you seem to solely base your argument on the changes in city limit populations.

[g-man430]

You stated here that it is not a valid comparison to compare Charlotte suburbs to Atlanta suburbs. You cited different development patterns to make your point. Well, if that is not valid, then there is absolutely no way that it is valid to compare the growth around Rock Hill to that around the Greenville-Spartanburg area.

Also, your growth numbers in the GSP area are very misleading. You cite city numbers as if they are a reflection of the growth of an area, when in this case (as well as most cases) they are not. Perhaps you are forgetting that Rock Hill has annexed like crazy (which makes it look like people are flocking to Rock Hill). Greenville, on the other hand, has a very small city limit and appears to not have grown at all if you look solely at that. Your assumption that "the metro growth in GSP is all sprawl centered around the interstates" is quite a statement, especially since you seem to solely base your argument on the changes in city limit populations.

I agree with you, Greenville. Metro'm, not trying to be a wet blanket, but I feel that your statement is highly untrue. You are correct on the part though, that we are a mini-Atlanta and also a mini-St. Louis. The cities of St. Louis and Atlanta only have a little over 400,000 people living in their cities I think while the areas outside of the cities have a couple million people and there's nothing wrong with that just as long as you keep your building of stuff dense, near the city, and not develop sprawl.

[monsoon]

Perhaps you are forgetting that Rock Hill has annexed like crazy (which makes it look like people are flocking to Rock Hill).

Rock Hill has not annexed any land in more than 10 years and its city size remains unchanged at 31 sq miles since 1995.

[g-man430]

Rock Hill has not annexed any land in more than 10 years and its city size remains unchanged at 31 sq miles since 1995

I didn't know that. Interesting. Greenville is still smaller though in square miles .

[monsoon]

It is 5 sq miles smaller. Is that the reason it added 600 people vs 9000 for Rock Hill?

[krazeeboi]

Also, Rock Hill has annexed a lot of undeveloped land in the past, and a lot of housing developments are being built on this land. So it's a combination of annexation AND people actually moving to the area. Everyone moving to York County isn't moving to the Fort Mill/Tega Cay/Lake Wylie area.

[sonofaque86]

Yeah...20,000 people will probably be added to Rock Hill's city limits from 2000-2010...That can't be all annexation.

[Greenville]

Also, Rock Hill has annexed a lot of undeveloped land in the past, and a lot of housing developments are being built on this land. So it's a combination of annexation AND people actually moving to the area. Everyone moving to York County isn't moving to the Fort Mill/Tega Cay/Lake Wylie area.

Good point. I was not suggesting that all of Rock Hill's growth is due to annexation, but based on discussions here I was under the impression that they have annexed a lot lately.

[krazeeboi]

Not too much. And what has been annexed has largely been undeveloped as I noted.

[monsoon]

Just to be clear on this, Rock Hill has not annexed anything since at least 1995 and it has added 9000+ people in just the past 5 years without any annexation at all. One of the biggest reasons that it has been able to do this is because it adopted a comprehensive Land Use Policy with the goal of increasing population density within its existing borders and in the areas outside control of the city. It also joined with a the other cities in the Charlotte metro (including Charlotte) to look at the longer range problem of preventing urban sprawl. The issue is much more pressing in this part of the Carolinas, and Rock Hill, unlike other cities in SC is benefiting from progressive thinking in land use that comes from being in a very large metro.

[sonofaque86]

I bet once all of the undeveloped land is developed Rock Hill will probably annex large tracks again of undeveloped land. luckily most of Rock Hill's growth is happening within the municipal boundaries and not outside the limits like many SC cities