Signature Tower

[Hankster]

Its great to see the Signature Tower is reporting 30% pre-sales, the tower sounds like its pretty much a go for construction. I remember the Viridian talk and negativity surrounding that building, and once again it rose and its finished.

Hopefully construction can start by the end of summer.

Tony stated with great certainty to our forum group that he would break ground on July 4th. I, for one, expect to see just that.

[Midtown]

On my way to school this morning, I saw two hot air balloons gearing up for take off in Elmington Park [in front of West End Middle]. One balloon had a bag printed with the Vanderbilt Medical Center logo and the other was none other than the logo for Signature Tower. I suppose that Tony G is taking his advertising to new "heights."

"hot air" being the operative words? lol.

Looking for some sort of signal such as a permit to upgrade Metro infrastructure (sewer, water, electric, whatever).

There has been a lot of speculation on this project as well as some others. Some of the other projects are well on their way with hard cash being spent on real construction activity and Metro infrastructure upgrades. With several other viable condo towers that are sure to beat the Signature to the marketplace, this one is looking more like a pipe dream.

When I see promos for the Sig, I can't help but think of the Cumberland (with it's Dryvit exterior). Looking at the promo on the Sig, I think the architecture would make a great addition to the Nashville skyline, but I'll believe its for real when I see the excavation under way. Even then, we'll have to wait and see how tall the building is, what the exterior looks like, etc.

Midtown

[Midtown]

Tony stated with great certainty to our forum group that he would break ground on July 4th. I, for one, expect to see just that.

I don't think you have to have a foundation design, building plan, or excavation permit to have a groundbreaking ceremony and serve refreshments on site. Once we see the permits, then there is going to be a real signal something is in the works. Once the permits are being filed, then the documents are the public record and we can get a verification of what the building looks like.

Midtown

[smeagolsfree]

I have been watching the way permits have been issued for a while now. Many times there is a permit issued for excavation then I think they would do a blasting permit, then a foundation permit for the garage and the would be a shell permit next, not sure. Not entirely sure about a separate permit for the below ground garage. Then the permits are issued for each individual unit to finish out.

Richard may be able to give more info on that.

[Hankster]

I don't think you have to have a foundation design, building plan, or excavation permit to have a groundbreaking ceremony and serve refreshments on site. Once we see the permits, then there is going to be a real signal something is in the works. Once the permits are being filed, then the documents are the public record and we can get a verification of what the building looks like.

Midtown

He said he intended to immediately begin excavation of thousands of tons of solid rock for a period of up to six months immediately upon groundbreaking on July 4th. It will be buzzing with activity. The excavation alone is estimated to cost $5 Million. Obviously a permit will be required.

[Jeeper12]

Permits won't be the next sign of progress IMO. Here is what has to happen.

1) An initial update on how many reservations converted to contracts. If this takes more than 30 days from the commencement of him converting the first unit that will be a likely sign that he fears posting the (small) number will cast more doubt on his chances.

2) Continued updates tracking his contract percentage to his stated goal of 60%.

3) Announcement that hotel partner is identified and on board.

4) Announcment that a specific lender has issued a commitment letter (even one subject to hurdles).

I don't see Tony moving any dirt around or even trying to fake a groundbreaking ceremony without the above behind him. As has been discussed on this thread there are many projects backed by bigger players in bigger cities who have done 1-4 and still pulled the plug. Some even pulled preliminary earthwork permits. Frankly, given the millions of somebody's money already buried in this deal I'm surprised they don't already have the sitework permits in hand (similar to AP). The plans certainly seem far enough along to apply and the cost would be peanuts relative to what's already been spent. But again, I think it would be yet another silly sign of desperation (thinking balloons) if he were to try to do much ahead of 1-4.

[BrandonTO416]

Permits won't be the next sign of progress IMO. Here is what has to happen.

1) An initial update on how many reservations converted to contracts. If this takes more than 30 days from the commencement of him converting the first unit that will be a likely sign that he fears posting the (small) number will cast more doubt on his chances.

2) Continued updates tracking his contract percentage to his stated goal of 60%.

3) Announcement that hotel partner is identified and on board.

4) Announcment that a specific lender has issued a commitment letter (even one subject to hurdles).

I don't see Tony moving any dirt around or even trying to fake a groundbreaking ceremony without the above behind him. As has been discussed on this thread there are many projects backed by bigger players in bigger cities who have done 1-4 and still pulled the plug. Some even pulled preliminary earthwork permits. Frankly, given the millions of somebody's money already buried in this deal I'm surprised they don't already have the sitework permits in hand (similar to AP). The plans certainly seem far enough along to apply and the cost would be peanuts relative to what's already been spent. But again, I think it would be yet another silly sign of desperation (thinking balloons) if he were to try to do much ahead of 1-4.

I think its amazing how someone can say so much, yet know so little.

[Jeeper12]

I think its amazing how someone can say so much, yet know so little.

Ouch...Time will be kind to one of us, Heckles.

[Plasticman]

I think its amazing how someone can say so much, yet know so little.

Don't serve up any crow yet. As much a fan as I am of this project, I'm trying to be realistic.

There are some very different views on here most all having some thought behind them . Some may believe construction has started everytime a pigeon poops on the chosen construction site. Others might not believe it is a go until the jewel is set into the top of the spire. But everyone I've seen seem to fall reasonably in between and are just waiting for some sort of "normal" signal that things are progressing.

So if you say someone knows so little, it begs the question of what do you know that we don't? We all want fresh but valid information or a fresh perspective from anyone who has it.

[titanhog]

titanhog,

Thanks for the comments. I hope you understand that I in no way want to stifle discussion on this board, only raise awareness. To that end, I think our discussion yesterday and today has been fruitful. Maybe some other media folks (other than Richard) will tune in for a crash course on contracts. You make many fair points and and I appreciate the extent that you often go to be tactful. In turn, I will from this day forward endeavor to be a kinder and gentler Jeeper.

Respectfully,

Jeeper

Thanks Jeeper!

I really do appreciate your input.

[monsoon]

Permits won't be the next sign of progress IMO. Here is what has to happen.

........

I still say you won't know for sure until a building permit(s) is pulled so the city can start evaluating very detailed engineering drawings. We have seen a lot of projects announced on this forum that never went anywhere but the ones that did always had this step occur. The preceding announcements were meaningless in terms of knowing if and when the project may be built. For example, there was one project on this site that announced in 2001, we came on-line in 20003 and started a topic on it, for the next few years the builder (and one of his minions posted on this site regularly) said that 70% had contracts and these were binding sales contracts, and yet the project did not break ground until late 2006. The two clues it was moving forward were the permits and official ground breaking where local and statewide officials showed up.

My guess is Tony, if he wants to keep his reputation, will not hold a public ground breaking until he knows for sure it is going up so this will also be a sign. I can imagine that for a tower such as this, the ground breaking is going to include high ups from Nashville and maybe the Governor himself since politicians generally love these kinds of very safe photo ops. Usually this will not happen however until there are already established permits to start construction.

[Nashvegas06]

Everybody, Jeeper12 and Metro.M have made some great points. I think that we should all be a little more careful when meeting with developers of projects. I think that you can tell from my post that I am excited about new projects in Nashville, although I think we should be a little careful at taking their words as gospel.

Looking back at our forum meeting at the Sig Tower, I have to say that we all hung on every breath of Tony G. kind of like the snake oil salesman selling a tonic that will cure any problem.

Again understand I am excited and really want all of these projects to happen. Although I will be a little more careful in the future.

[ATLBrain]

You guys probably haven't noticed that I have very few posts on this, the Siggy, thread. It's mainly b/c I can't get too excited about it until it seems more realistic. I look forward to that time. In the meantime, through this forum I have become aware of the activity in the smaller projects in north downtown, and to a lesser extent, those in East Nashville. Just by my own experiences in Nashville, I'm not familiar with those areas. So when I get up there (whether Siggy has been started or not), I'm heading straight up to Germantown.

[titanhog]

Everybody, Jeeper12 and Metro.M have made some great points. I think that we should all be a little more careful when meeting with developers of projects. I think that you can tell from my post that I am excited about new projects in Nashville, although I think we should be a little careful at taking their words as gospel.

Looking back at our forum meeting at the Sig Tower, I have to say that we all hung on every breath of Tony G. kind of like the snake oil salesman selling a tonic that will cure any problem.

Again understand I am excited and really want all of these projects to happen. Although I will be a little more careful in the future.

Thing is...we just don't know. What Tony has said could be true...it just hasn't all come to the end game yet. If he doesn't have that 4th of July groundbreaking, I will become very, very skeptical. Until then, I'll still hold out hope.

By the way...the fact that Gaushell doesn't post here anymore scares me a bit.

[ATLBrain]

I think one reason why people still hold a lot of stock in what Giarratana has reported is that he has a proven record thus far with two additional large projects underway currently.

[BrandonTO416]

I think one reason why people still hold a lot of stock in what Giarratana has reported is that he has a proven record thus far with two additional large projects underway currently.

And the fact that the level of negativity surrounding his prior projects was equally as high. People thought that the Cumberland was a joke back in the 90's, for crying out loud.

I think you have to balance it out instead of focusing only on those who claim its not real until its already built. The developer obviously has a vested interest, but when he says 30% pre-sales, it means 30% pre-sales.

I don't know why people are unnecessarily argumentative to the point of no return. Signature Tower won't be a full building until its built for some people.

[Jeeper12]

And the fact that the level of negativity surrounding his prior projects was equally as high. People thought that the Cumberland was a joke back in the 90's, for crying out loud.

For crying out loud ? It was a joke. Did you ever speak with any of the lenders or equity partners who were involved ? I have and things didn't go well. Not even Tony has publicly suggested it was a big success. Unless of course, your only definition of success is that something gets built and the lights get turned on. I would suggest to you that there are many other measures of success most of which Cumberland didn't pass. And rest assured, if it had gone well, more projects would have followed sooner.

I think you have to balance it out instead of focusing only on those who claim its not real until its already built. The developer obviously has a vested interest...I don't know why people are unnecessarily argumentative to the point of no return. Signature Tower won't be a full building until its built for some people

I don't think anyone has suggested "it won't be real until its already built". But I'd be interested to see the post that you think infers or suggests that. However, there has been a good measure of reasonable debate about whether Tony is over his head on this one, so to speak, relative to his resume.

I presume that even you would conceed that previous experience ought to be a factor in considering ANYONE's chances for success. But since I "know so little" and you apparently know so much I wonder if you could answer this question for me: What projects besides the Cumberland has Tony undertaken where he has had full responsiblity for conceptualizing the project, procuring the needed debt and capital from others and then executing the process of managing the design (architect) and the contractor throughout the duration of construction (a.k.a. being a developer) ??

[gaushell]

Thing is...we just don't know. What Tony has said could be true...it just hasn't all come to the end game yet. If he doesn't have that 4th of July groundbreaking, I will become very, very skeptical. Until then, I'll still hold out hope.

By the way...the fact that Gaushell doesn't post here anymore scares me a bit.

LOL. I haven't been posting because it isn't worth the headache of tracking responses and quite frankly I'm too busy working on other projects. We are still involved in the project and continue to work on various marketing and design items. In fact, we are currently working on lobby illustrations of the hotel portion.

[ATLBrain]

Hey, Gaushell. I have seen your work for One Beale, and I must say your work is very good.

[titanhog]

LOL. I haven't been posting because it isn't worth the headache of tracking responses and quite frankly I'm too busy working on other projects. We are still involved in the project and continue to work on various marketing and design items. In fact, we are currently working on lobby illustrations of the hotel portion.

Yay! The ghost of Gaushell has arisen! Love your info.

[smeagolsfree]

A question to Jeeper.

What, in you r opinion are the odds fo the Signature being built at this point in time? After reading all on this thread and know ing somehting others do not know, I would give it a little better than 50 50 at this time. Just want to see if we are close or not.

[Nashvegas06]

If a post is not attacking another poster or rude i.e. out of taste, can we just let them speak. I agree metro that we all have been a little too rah rah for the SG. I do hope it is built, but life will go on otherwise. We always have Bristol... LOL... Maybe the could help take some cost out of the Sig with their Styro designs. J/K...

The reason I am posting this is that half the fun in purchasing something, is the shopping for the item. Much the same as speculation for many of these projects. I do understand and respect that this is not an open forum for anyone and I appreciate the opportunity to post.

[Jeeper12]

A question to Jeeper.

What, in you r opinion are the odds fo the Signature being built at this point in time? After reading all on this thread and know ing somehting others do not know, I would give it a little better than 50 50 at this time.

I don't believe it has 50/50 prospects unless he can get 50% to 60% of it sold (binding contracts) soon to buyers willing to eventually put up more deposit than the 5% he is currently requiring. As it stands right now, based upon everything I've seen and heard, I don't think he has much more than a 1 in 10 shot of getting it done. Another quiet month and it will be half as likely, IMO.

That may strike some of you as too pessimistic but it's important to understand that even with the sales in hand as above there would still remain huge hurdles that include the following:

1) Find an equity partner (for hotel and condo) good for the $80-90 million in cash needed to satsify a lender.

2) Get under contract with the GC (presumably Turner) at an amount that makes the proforma work.

3) Obtain a $200 million plus construction loan with lenders that are satisfied with his presales and contract terms; as I've said before, the large banks capable of funding these kind of loans will not find a 5% deposit acceptable for such unproven price points and price/sf levels, IMO.

Those of you eager to see the project get started with or without Tony should take comfort in the fact that if there really is a market for what he's dreamed up it will most likely get built regardless of his net worth or experience level. In such a scenario (units are sold, construction contract is in place) Tony would inevitably find larger players knocking on his door to bring the needed experience and capital to complete the puzzle. If demand appeared strong (after a year and 70 articles) for what he's got drawn up I think we'd probably have already seen an announcement that he was aligning himself with a bigger player.

BTW, it's really not the slight many of you think it is to suggest that Girantanna's company is stretching to try and pull this project off. There aren't many development companies in the US that have the wherewithall (experience, capital, lender credibility) to make a 1/3 of a billion dollar project happen in a large market, let alone all in one shot in downtown Nashville.

Also know that I recognize that some of the steps noted on my list above could theoretically already be in place but as I have made clear in earlier posts, projects with as many skeptics as this one need to announce every bit of progress they make as soon as they make it in order to keep prospective buyers believing. So, I don't think my inferences or my odds are illogical.

Hope this answers your question, smeagolsfree.

[satalac]

got some interesting news pertaining to the tower. and unnamed source very close to me told me that the new MTMC hospital in murfreesboro has signed a deal with giarantana to use the excavated land from the signature as infill for the hospital. this is another reason why i believe that the signature has been greenlighted. why would another project not run by giarantana count on the sig to be built if is wasnt already a go?

[monsoon]

Maybe this deal is contingent on the project actually moving forward.