City/County Consolidation

[Florida]

All I know of Patrick D is what I saw on Bandwagon. If Mayernick is our only alternative to Ratcliff... I'm not sure I'm ready to make the switch. I heard him speak and frankly I was far more impressed with Patrick D than anyone else in that particular race as far as ideas and platform are concerned.

I will say, Ratcliff comes out strong AGAINST incentives for outside companies seeking to bring jobs to this community. Turbocor was one example, he'll likely show his colors again with TP, and who knows what lies down the road.

The more I think about Channel 16, and how foolish they are on Tuesdays, the more I want to get rid of them all. Ratcliff being at the top of that list.... Mayernick may just get my support by default.

[stjoe]

All I know of Patrick D is what I saw on Bandwagon. If Mayernick is our only alternative to Ratcliff... I'm not sure I'm ready to make the switch. I heard him speak and frankly I was far more impressed with Patrick D than anyone else in that particular race as far as ideas and platform are concerned.

I will say, Ratcliff comes out strong AGAINST incentives for outside companies seeking to bring jobs to this community. Turbocor was one example, he'll likely show his colors again with TP, and who knows what lies down the road.

The more I think about Channel 16, and how foolish they are on Tuesdays, the more I want to get rid of them all. Ratcliff being at the top of that list.... Mayernick may just get my support by default.

I oppose any canidate who opposes incentives for outside companies. Mr. Rackleff is against bringing in Tubocor, Fallschase, etc.

Frank Mayernick holds positions similar to Bryan Desloge it seems.

http://www.tdo.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?A...03/1006/OPINION

"There are important differences between Mr. Mayernick and the incumbent on several big issues: the Fallschase development (Mr. Mayernick supports the project); the Turbocor incentive deal (Mr. Mayernick would have endorsed county participation); and the proposed half-percent sales tax for indigent medical care (Mr. Mayernick supports the goal but, saying the plan hasn't been thoroughly vetted, says he will vote against it).

He lists support for a regional trauma center, job creation, and neighborhood and environmental protection among his top priorities."

TJ those sound a lot more like your opinions, if this board is any judge, than Bob Rackliff.

[poonther]

I am in District 5, TJ you are in District 1 or 2? So you really don't get to make this tough choice for District 5 on the ballot...lucky you.

I appreciate your assessment of the City Commission race w/Debbie in it. When you mentioned that she loves to study things, that really made me think twice about voting for her. All these studies they do just seem for the most part to waste time and money. Do you think that Dr. V. is too much of a "scholar" to apply a "real world" approach to things?

I'm voting for Marks, so that leaves the two other choices and I'd like NOT to vote for one incumbent. So which one would you choose to leave and which would you choose to get rid of: Debbie L. or A. Katz?

[poonther]

On a side note, have any of you noticed on Cliff Thaell's commercial when his wife says "Theres one honey" and he says "Ill get it" that he sounds wayyyyyyy too much like Forest Gump??

I finally saw this commercial last night. Wow talk about your country bumpkin commercials. I want to vote against Thaell just for making this bad commercial. I understand his point, but what a terrible way to execute it.

[ghostOFtheSuwanee]

I finally saw this commercial last night. Wow talk about your country bumpkin commercials. I want to vote against Thaell just for making this bad commercial. I understand his point, but what a terrible way to execute it.

It's so sad to have to base your decisions on a candidate by evaluating television commercials.

"My name is GotS and I endorse this message."

[poonther]

It's so sad to have to base your decisions on a candidate by evaluating television commercials.

"My name is GotS and I endorse this message."

Have you been reading this thread and paying attention? Don't base your comments on one point alone, look at the whole thread please.

TJ and I have been discussing everyway possible to get a closer look at all these local candidates including speeches at his church and advocating everyone to watch Bandwagon on WFSU.

Above I was just simply responding to and commenting on a bad bad commercial and said it makes me want not to vote on him. If I were basing my decision on the commercial ALONE I would have said "I will not vote for Thaell based on this commercial." There is a difference.

[Go Gators]

Have you been reading this thread and paying attention? Don't base your comments on one point alone, look at the whole thread please.

TJ and I have been discussing everyway possible to get a closer look at all these local candidates including speeches at his church and advocating everyone to watch Bandwagon on WFSU.

Above I was just simply responding to and commenting on a bad bad commercial and said it makes me want not to vote on him. If I were basing my decision on the commercial ALONE I would have said "I will not vote for Thaell based on this commercial." There is a difference.

Just comes in like a ghost, makes dumb comments, and leaves.

I know what you meant Poonther, along with everyone else...well almost everyone.

[Florida]

lol... ok people!!

Poonther, I don't think Dr. V's knowledge/background should prevent him from making a worthwhile decision. Its hard to choose between Lightsey and Katz. You really have to judge them each individually. I can say this....

Lightsey has been on the board over 16 years or something and she makes sure we all know that. With the experience she has she knows what will and won't get the city sued on certain issues. She's not an attorney like three of the other commissioners, she's full time Commissioner Lightsey. She 's been a true champion on environmental preservation and storm water issues, but Tallahassee's major problems are much bigger than that.

The widening of Capital Circle SW could have been planned and underway long ago if not for her objecting to the current path and insisting it run along another route in order to protect Lake Bradford. I'm all for Lake Bed protection, but citing a problem without a soultion in mind isn't the type of leadership I need.

Downtown Tallahassee faced a major decision back in 1999-2000 when the board consisted of Mayor Maddox, Charles Billings, John Paul Bailey, Steve Meisburg, and Debbie Lightsey. The issue: To relax building height restrictions and setbacks to make development downtown more attractive to developers. I'll never forget the bitterness, and anger in Ms. Lightsey when Maddox, Bailey, and Billings voted in favor of relaxing the restrictions to make it possible for projects like The Tennyson to move forward. She lost major points with me back then.

There have been times when she's been the most intelligent, wise commissioner on the board. There have been times when she's been mean and spiteful to other commissioners and citizens.

Dr. V has no track record of public service, but many of the best politicians never do. The longer I think about this, the more and more I'm considering the possibility that Tallahassee's city commission may be without female representation soon.

[ghostOFtheSuwanee]

Have you been reading this thread and paying attention? Don't base your comments on one point alone, look at the whole thread please.

TJ and I have been discussing everyway possible to get a closer look at all these local candidates including speeches at his church and advocating everyone to watch Bandwagon on WFSU.

Above I was just simply responding to and commenting on a bad bad commercial and said it makes me want not to vote on him. If I were basing my decision on the commercial ALONE I would have said "I will not vote for Thaell based on this commercial." There is a difference.

Sorry Poonther -- It wasn't a personal attack - just a response in general to how much of a role television advertising and "news" is playing in deciding the outcome of elections, to the detriment of our Democracy. My appologies if it seemed that way.

Back to Thaell -- From what dealings I've had with him, he's available to talk to citizens with concerns, listens well, asks good questions and gives you a straight answer on whether or not he agrees with your position. Leon County is a complex system and decisions are not always cut and dried. Thaell appears to be intelligent, thoughtful, and proactive in the community. For me, that goes a long way and while I'm giving him until election day to change my mind, so far, he's still a keeper as far as I'm concerned.

[ghostOFtheSuwanee]

lol... ok people!!

Poonther, I don't think Dr. V's knowledge/background should prevent him from making a worthwhile decision. Its hard to choose between Lightsey and Katz. You really have to judge them each individually. I can say this....

Lightsey has been on the board over 16 years or something and she makes sure we all know that. With the experience she has she knows what will and won't get the city sued on certain issues. She's not an attorney like three of the other commissioners, she's full time Commissioner Lightsey. She 's been a true champion on environmental preservation and storm water issues, but Tallahassee's major problems are much bigger than that.

The widening of Capital Circle SW could have been planned and underway long ago if not for her objecting to the current path and insisting it run along another route in order to protect Lake Bradford. I'm all for Lake Bed protection, but citing a problem without a soultion in mind isn't the type of leadership I need.

Downtown Tallahassee faced a major decision back in 1999-2000 when the board consisted of Mayor Maddox, Charles Billings, John Paul Bailey, Steve Meisburg, and Debbie Lightsey. The issue: To relax building height restrictions and setbacks to make development downtown more attractive to developers. I'll never forget the bitterness, and anger in Ms. Lightsey when Maddox, Bailey, and Billings voted in favor of relaxing the restrictions to make it possible for projects like The Tennyson to move forward. She lost major points with me back then.

There have been times when she's been the most intelligent, wise commissioner on the board. There have been times when she's been mean and spiteful to other commissioners and citizens.

Dr. V has no track record of public service, but many of the best politicians never do. The longer I think about this, the more and more I'm considering the possibility that Tallahassee's city commission may be without female representation soon.

OTOH, when the city and county had that joint meeting a short while back, Debbie was the only city commissioner who bothered to attend. It's too bad that these decisions are never easy. But I'm with you on giving he new guy a chance and Debbie an opportunity to take that lobbying position with the coal industry.

[Go Gators]

Sorry Poonther -- It wasn't a personal attack - just a response in general to how much of a role television advertising and "news" is playing in deciding the outcome of elections, to the detriment of our Democracy. My appologies if it seemed that way.

If thats what you meant, then my apologies as well.

[poonther]

Sorry Poonther -- It wasn't a personal attack - just a response in general to how much of a role television advertising and "news" is playing in deciding the outcome of elections, to the detriment of our Democracy. My appologies if it seemed that way.

Thanks Ghost, I greatly appreciate that and sorry too that I misread what you were implying. I'm a lot of bad things, but the one thing I'm not is a guy that votes based on commercials only. I will vote for a candidate even if they run bad commercials. Thaell's newest one is just a little too "folksy" for my taste.

Good points you made about Thaell. He's the one incumbent on the Commission I may vote for. The decision for me is still out there about District 5. I've never liked the "feeling" I get about Mayernick, but on growth and job issues I agree w/him. Rackleff on the other hand I like when it comes to social issues, but when it comes to economic issues, he's placed one too many NO votes for me to be comfortable. Then there's the other guy also. What to do???? I wasn't teasing or grumping earlier, I would like a chance to talk w/Mayernick and the first question I'd ask is: "Why did it take you 5 years to register to vote in Leon if you say you care about the issues." For me when I move, registering vote is one of the first things I do. It's so easy now w/motor-voter etc.

TJ, I'll keep this short. You brought back a lot of issues I've had w/Debbie that I just remembered b/c of your insightful post. You may be the man that just switched my vote to Dr. V.

Question: Did any of the City Commission member vote NO on Tuborcor? I can't remember & I looked for the info. here, but wasn't able to find it.

[Florida]

Thanks Ghost, I greatly appreciate that and sorry too that I misread what you were implying. I'm a lot of bad things, but the one thing I'm not is a guy that votes based on commercials only. I will vote for a candidate even if they run bad commercials. Thaell's newest one is just a little too "folksy" for my taste.

Good points you made about Thaell. He's the one incumbent on the Commission I may vote for. The decision for me is still out there about District 5. I've never liked the "feeling" I get about Mayernick, but on growth and job issues I agree w/him. Rackleff on the other hand I like when it comes to social issues, but when it comes to economic issues, he's placed one too many NO votes for me to be comfortable. Then there's the other guy also. What to do???? I wasn't teasing or grumping earlier, I would like a chance to talk w/Mayernick and the first question I'd ask is: "Why did it take you 5 years to register to vote in Leon if you say you care about the issues." For me when I move, registering vote is one of the first things I do. It's so easy now w/motor-voter etc.

TJ, I'll keep this short. You brought back a lot of issues I've had w/Debbie that I just remembered b/c of your insightful post. You may be the man that just switched my vote to Dr. V.

Question: Did any of the City Commission member vote NO on Tuborcor? I can't remember & I looked for the info. here, but wasn't able to find it.

Mustian I believe was the only "No" vote from the city on Turbocor.

IMO, Ratcliff would be perfect for a congressional seat, a position where social issues truly matter (I'm like you Poonther, I agree with him there). But locally the D's and the R's just don't matter right now. Growth is the goal, without it we won't get the jobs, we won't keep the brains, we won't be as innovative as we can be as a community.

Thaell is too comfortable to me. He'll probably win because he's "The name you know" but I get the feeling another term just brings us more of the same. And if the next few years brings us more Turbocor-type votes, we're going to loose with this man sitting on the commission.

[ghostOFtheSuwanee]

Wow..saw the rerun of the forum tonight on WFSU. Love the barbershop singers. I'm totally voting for the weird eyes guy who is running for mayor if I can just remember his name. He has that "Tom Joad" quality. Dr. V is awesome. I love the accent. Debbie is just too damn smug for my taste and has lost me. Sorry babe.

So I finally saw the Thaell ad. I think y'all are wrong that it's about being pro/anti development. I think he's saying that he's not being bought and paid for like certain candidates I won't mention (cough, cough Proctor). It's folkie but so what? It's also kind of sweet.

Speaking of Uncle Bill and his fancy cabin in the Northeast, I was down in Woodville earlier today and got an earful from a true tobacco chaw in the mouth, dixie singing, PBR drinking redneck about how he's supporting Alexander " 'cause he's got the brains instead of debts." (and that's a direct quote)

[Florida]

Wow..saw the rerun of the forum tonight on WFSU. Love the barbershop singers. I'm totally voting for the weird eyes guy who is running for mayor if I can just remember his name. He has that "Tom Joad" quality. Dr. V is awesome. I love the accent. Debbie is just too damn smug for my taste and has lost me. Sorry babe.

So I finally saw the Thaell ad. I think y'all are wrong that it's about being pro/anti development. I think he's saying that he's not being bought and paid for like certain candidates I won't mention (cough, cough Proctor). It's folkie but so what? It's also kind of sweet.

Speaking of Uncle Bill and his fancy cabin in the Northeast, I was down in Woodville earlier today and got an earful from a true tobacco chaw in the mouth, dixie singing, PBR drinking redneck about how he's supporting Alexander " 'cause he's got the brains instead of debts." (and that's a direct quote)

For Leon County's sake, I hope that Old PBR drinking man is alone in the minority to vote for Alexander... last thing we need is a younger version of Proctor... that's like putting a new battery in a bad toy.

[poonther]

For Leon County's sake, I hope that Old PBR drinking man is alone in the minority to vote for Alexander... last thing we need is a younger version of Proctor... that's like putting a new battery in a bad toy.

That line cracked me up TJ. Too funny.

Also thanks for the Mustain reminder. Your memory is better than mine. I agree w/what you say about Rackelff. So where now, the unknown guy or Frank M. in your opinion? You aren't even in District 5...are you 1 or 2 now?

Finally if you guys had to have only one of the two stay on the County Commission, which one would it be: Thaell or Rackleff?

[Florida]

from Recent votes, Thaell.

I'm in district 2 I believe. Not much excitement here.

[ghostOFtheSuwanee]

For Leon County's sake, I hope that Old PBR drinking man is alone in the minority to vote for Alexander... last thing we need is a younger version of Proctor... that's like putting a new battery in a bad toy.

hehe...nice way with words. I did note that Prof. Wilson and the Capital Outlook are supporting Uncle Bill, but figure that has more to do with being friends with his father than with his effectiveness as a commissioner.

[Florida]

If they see it anywhere close to the way I do, I'd much rather have an experienced fool than a freshman.

[stjoe]

I'd rather have the guy that might fail as opposed to the guy who I KNOW will fail.

I find it funny that folks who most want economic development and growth don't seem to vote for it with their politicians. Unless we get rid of a lot of the politicians that have been around, don't expect any changes.

[poonther]

I'd rather have the guy that might fail as opposed to the guy who I KNOW will fail.

I find it funny that folks who most want economic development and growth don't seem to vote for it with their politicians. Unless we get rid of a lot of the politicians that have been around, don't expect any changes.

As far as District 1 goes, I'm not sure if anyone here can really vote in that election, can they?

You must be talking about folks you know IR b/c from what I've read here TJ, Ghost and myself I believe haven't totally made up our minds on who to vote for in this upcoming election and are still open to all possibilities. Personally I still haven't committed to anyone in District 5 and probably won't until moments before I go to the polls.

Question to long-timers (Ghost and others) who is Jeffrey Phipps? Reason I'm asking is b/c he's the main guy behind the PAC Citizens for Balanced Growth. I now get flyers everyday from these folks. They seem to be supporting Debbie and Bob R. Just tryin' to once again "follow the money" and figure out who's pulling the "puppet strings." Thanks.

[ghostOFtheSuwanee]

As far as District 1 goes, I'm not sure if anyone here can really vote in that election, can they?

You must be talking about folks you know IR b/c from what I've read here TJ, Ghost and myself I believe haven't totally made up our minds on who to vote for in this upcoming election and are still open to all possibilities. Personally I still haven't committed to anyone in District 5 and probably won't until moments before I go to the polls.

Question to long-timers (Ghost and others) who is Jeffrey Phipps? Reason I'm asking is b/c he's the main guy behind the PAC Citizens for Balanced Growth. I now get flyers everyday from these folks. They seem to be supporting Debbie and Bob R. Just tryin' to once again "follow the money" and figure out who's pulling the "puppet strings." Thanks.

The Phipps are a wealthy local family. They're long-time doers of good deeds. The Red Hills Trials, The Phipps Gallary at the Tallahassee Museum, the Klapp-Phipps park are a few of the things they've helped fund. I don't know Jeffrey personally but think I think he's Colin's grandson and may have dated a friend of mine a long time ago if I have my story straight. For some reason, I identify him with building wooden sailboats. Orchard Pond Road (worth a drive if you've never been there), the address for the PAC, runs through the Phipps plantation.

Oh yeah, they used to own Channel 6 when it had local programs worth watching.

All in all, a family that is doing their best to use their inherited wealth to the benefit of our community and doing it without a lot of hoopla.

[seminole]

I am in District 5, TJ you are in District 1 or 2? So you really don't get to make this tough choice for District 5 on the ballot...lucky you.

I appreciate your assessment of the City Commission race w/Debbie in it. When you mentioned that she loves to study things, that really made me think twice about voting for her. All these studies they do just seem for the most part to waste time and money. Do you think that Dr. V. is too much of a "scholar" to apply a "real world" approach to things?

I'm voting for Marks, so that leaves the two other choices and I'd like NOT to vote for one incumbent. So which one would you choose to leave and which would you choose to get rid of: Debbie L. or A. Katz?

A. Katz should stay! This is the guy who developed a compromising solution for downtown's height restriction after decades of bickering and complaining. To loose him will be a major setback for our City Commission.

[poonther]

A. Katz should stay! This is the guy who developed a compromising solution for downtown's height restriction after decades of bickering and complaining. To loose him will be a major setback for our City Commission.

Exactly why I ask these questions. I forgot all about that. Good point Seminole. Thanks.

[Go Gators]

Did anyone notice in the Ed/Op section of the Democrat today that Bill Proctor said he would continue to play "every card in the deck..." to get things done? I think we all knew that anyway.