Baseball in Charlotte, which will happen?

[reverbandwhiskey]

I would be in favor of tax dollars to fund an aquarium or farmers market...but folks...no serious proposal has come before the local GovCo asking for funding. So the reality is that it isn't a Arena vs Aquarium vs Farmers Market vs Baseball Stadium argument.

What we have before us now is a serious funding proposal for a baseball stadium and I am in favor of it. There is no choice of a farmers market in place of the baseball stadium...or an aquarium...those proposals simply don't exsit right now.

[Charlotte_native]

I would be in favor of tax dollars to fund an aquarium or farmers market...but folks...no serious proposal has come before the local GovCo asking for funding. So the reality is that it isn't a Arena vs Aquarium vs Farmers Market vs Baseball Stadium argument.

What we have before us now is a serious funding proposal for a baseball stadium and I am in favor of it. There is no choice of a farmers market in place of the baseball stadium...or an aquarium...those proposals simply don't exsit right now.

[MZT]

(I thought this thread would never settle down.) This afternoon I walked past the 3rd ward site, and these are my impressions.

- The old paper building isn't much. It's just a plain, industrial brick building.

- This area really is desolate, as it is. Baseball may only enliven it some of the time, but it's still an improvement

Am I supporting the plan? Eh, at least I'd say I'm moving from "indifferent" to "unopposed". We'd still be getting 5 acres of usable green space with the swaps, and I don't view losing the paper building as being too material in the scheme of things.

[Charlotte_native]

Whichever is going to happen I just wish it would. They cleared the land for the park last year, I even saw almost final plans that were about to be approved and started...I think it was well over a year ago, then they stopped everything when the baseball option came out. Lets move forward on this, PLEASE.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

The city has to learn to be patient (like Levine ). Develop the park now, someone will want to develop the Second Ward at a later date and they will buy it outright.

The baseball Knights can build their own stadium on their own land that they purchase. The city has experimented enough with big monuments downtown.

[reverbandwhiskey]

(I thought this thread would never settle down.) This afternoon I walked past the 3rd ward site, and these are my impressions.

- The old paper building isn't much. It's just a plain, industrial brick building.

- This area really is desolate, as it is. Baseball may only enliven it some of the time, but it's still an improvement

Am I supporting the plan? Eh, at least I'd say I'm moving from "indifferent" to "unopposed". We'd still be getting 5 acres of usable green space with the swaps, and I don't view losing the paper building as being too material in the scheme of things.

[monsoon]

There is a front page article in the Observer today that cast doubts on the Knights financial plan for bringing minor league baseball to downtown Charlotte. In order to make it work, they have to double attendance at the games and double ticket prices from $12 to something more like $25. They are also planning to sell a lot of luxury boxes to Fortune 500 companies using 10 year leases. There are comments from the executive VP of the Sacramento River Cats in that he doubts it is a sound plan. They are going to be in competition with the NFL and NBA for corporate leases and given this is a minor league team they might find the well particularly dry. Also the $25 ticket price is too high. They are also hoping to make a windfall on the selling the naming rights to the stadium. A dubious plan given the Bobcats haven't even managed this yet.

So lets see, a family of four goes to one of these games, buys some refreshments, and possibly a cap or something, and they have easily dropped $150. Somehow, I just don't see this attracting huge numbers of people to the center city.

[atlrvr]

Well....$25 is the most expensive "non-box" seat in the place, so I don't think that is too big of a concern.....it the deck seats are doubled from like $3 to $6, then I don't think too many families are going to be concerned.

I do agree that counting on naming rights will be tough, though I would assume it would be pricing would be much lower than for a pro-sports arena, besides it would have more games than the arena, and therefore get more exposure, just not television exposure.

[uptownliving]

I don't think the Knights will have any problems selling the Suites...and the Club Seats are cheap compared to a regular ticket to the Panthers, Bobcats, NASCAR, or Hurricanes.

It would also be great place for a family of four to be able to come to a game for $30. That is cheaper than taking the family out to the movie!

All this talk of baseball is making me crave a good hotdog

[GoFightWin]

In order to make it work, they have to double attendance at the games and double ticket prices from $12 to something more like $25.

[monsoon]

Please read the article more carefully.

Club seats are not purchased by individuals...there are purchased by the company owning the box.

[uptownliving]

90% of the seats at the new Knights Stadium downtown will be in the $6 range. That is cheaper than going to see a movie.

[AuLukey]

It says "The most expensive ticket at Knights Stadium is $12. The new club seats could cost $20 or $25." I take that to mean the most expensive ticket the Knights have now is $12. In the context of that article, they will need to sell seats in the $20 to $25 range to make their financial plan work.

[whitehourseview]

I was in town and went to a couple of Knights games this season. While upper level, General Admission, tickets are $6 and the lower level goes from $9-12, most folks just bought $6 tickets and sat in the sparse lower level.

But even the suites at Knights stadium cost above $12. In Greenville, SC, suites at the new downtown minor league park for a single A baseball club (privately built and paid for on city land), of which there are more of than the present Knights Stadium, cost about $25 per game/per person for 20 people. I believe all but two sold out for this past season, and those two were frequently picked up on a per game basis.

Edit: Looked it up, the Greenville, SC Single A ballpark has 17 luxury suites compared to the present 14 in AAA Knights Stadium.

I ran the numbers one time based on what was public and the Drive organization made more money off the suites than they did off the other additional 5,000 or so fans who would be there for a sell out.

[uptownliving]

There has been a potential breakthrough in the baseball stadium land deal. County Manager Harry Jones has come up with a new simplified plan that would only be between Charlotte and Meck Co.

This new deal would still accomplish the same goals of a new baseball stadium, the new park, and the redevelopment of 2nd Ward.

Details of the deal are here

[dubone]

That seems to be responsive to the city council's desire that the county take the lead in pulling all the pieces together. Regardless of the end product, the trading of ownership does seem reasonable, as it simplifies the ownership of the various properties uptown.

[uptownliving]

After a very contentious back and forth between Commisioner Bishop and County Manager Jones, the Mecklenburg County Commision voted 6-2 to proceed with the new plan for baseball. This will now go before the City Council for approval.

[reverbandwhiskey]

After a very contentious back and forth between Commisioner Bishop and County Manager Jones, the Mecklenburg County Commision voted 6-2 to proceed with the new plan for baseball. This will now go before the City Council for approval.

[monsoon]

After a very contentious back and forth between Commisioner Bishop and County Manager Jones, the Mecklenburg County Commision voted 6-2 to proceed with the new plan for baseball. This will now go before the City Council for approval.

[uptownliving]

The County Commision did in fact vote to approve the County Manager's new plan. Now the County Manager has to go work out the details and bring back contracts for the county commision to approve and sign.

Charlotte is still part of the land swap deal, since it will require Charlotte to hand over ownership of Marshall Park and Spirit Square among other things. The next Council business meeting is at the end of the month.

This approval in no way means the baseball deal is a done deal. It just means they have found a simpler way to make things happen. It won't be a done deal until both the county commision and city of charlotte approve the contracts.

[atlrvr]

John Lassiter was quoted in today's Observer as saying the city council was generally supportive of the new terms.

[uptownliving]

Something that was mentioned at last night's meeting is that the Baseball Stadium would bring in $2M annually in new sales tax to Mecklenburg County, and $12M in annual property taxes from the stadium and associated development.

So the $7.8M asked for in infrastructure improvements would be paid for in about 6 months with this project. As far as economic development deals go that is one of the best ROI I have ever seen.

[Charlotte_native]

Something that was mentioned at last night's meeting is that the Baseball Stadium would bring in $2M annually in new sales tax to Mecklenburg County, and $12M in annual property taxes from the stadium and associated development.

So the $7.8M asked for in infrastructure improvements would be paid for in about 6 months with this project. As far as economic development deals go that is one of the best ROI I have ever seen.

[stadtguy]

Are there any objective studies out there (that is, not produced by project consultants) that prove the fiscal benefits of sports arenas? Most academic studies that I'm aware of have been skeptical of the stadium strategy. A signature downtown park would add more to downtown livability that a baseball stadium.

[nowensone]

^ Was wondering the same thing, any measure would seem to anecdotal.

• "Did the arena influence your decision to move downtown?"

• "Did you move downtown because of the arena?" (slightly different meaning than the 1st wording, and would produce different answers)

• "Did you open your subway franchise two blocks from the arena because you expected it to contribute to it's success?"

• "Did you you open your bar downtown because of the arena?"

• "Has your restaurant business improved due to the arena?"

Some are measurable, most are subjective. opinion, etc.. I know certain people for whom having an arena would positively influence the decision to move to a DT condo/apt., but would it make the decision on it's own? Probably not.