Triangle Towne Center

[Jones_]

sorry to change the focus here but it just occurred to me that one big difference in the outdoor areas is that at Triangle the first thing you encounter is a vehicle crossing and at Southpoint the first vehicle crossing is not for a few hunderd feet. The Triangle experience is less inviting from the outset.

[Gard]

Not exactly TTC, but right next door to it....I was going to Super Target up there tonight and what do I see in the woods on Old Wake Forest Rd. across from Super Target? A big sign saying "Coming Soon: Wal-Mart." It also said outparcels were available, so its going to be a big shopping center. And the sprawl continues...

[dmccall]

I want one of those Costcos like they had in Idiocracy.

[ncwebguy]

"Welcome to Costco. I love you."

Some parts of TTC feel like that -- a mall for people who go to the mall because it has, like, everything, and, like, there's nothing else to do. And there are few shopping options (other than the US 1/98 intersection) northeast of 540.

I wonder what, if any, influence the Wal-Mart will have on the tenant mix in TTC proper, and/or what they hope to attract to Wal-Mart's outparcels. The shopping center with the Circuit City, On The Border and Mimi's is mostly leased out on the BJ's "perimiter", but the smaller spaces near the traffic circle are mostly empty. The strip of shops between TTC and Super Target has space to build more stores on that "street" but it doesn't look like anything will be built there any time soon, especially with the new space soon to be available across Old Wake Forest road.

The car crossing at TTC is a little closer than that at Southpoint, though Southpoint's fountain helps soften the buffer a lot. It does show that TTC is more concerned with getting people to the valet parking stand more than the outdoor plaza. Not to mention that the whole thing was tacked on after Southpoint showed their plans.

[Jones_]

Not to mention that the whole thing was tacked on after Southpoint showed their plans.

That actually explains alot. That area never felt tied to mall proper in any thought out way. The plaza connecting the strip to the mall at Southpoint makes all the difference. TTC has only a narrow standing area and the road right there at the California Pizza Kitchen entrance. On a schematic it probably looks about the same, but functioning in real life it makes all the difference. The outdoor area at TTC makes me feel separate from the mall because of this...at Southpoint, I feel like I am on an extended mall corridor.

[ncwebguy]

The mall's corridor to the outside/commons area is too much inside. The S&K next to CPK seems kinda tacked on and doesn't feel cohesive with the rest of the mall. If the inside/outside door was by Auntie Annies pretzels and Cinabon, there would be more of a connection. And there could be more benches in the middle. TTC's B&N is the only one in the Triangle physically attached to the inside of a mall, even though other malls have them nearby -- Crabtree, Southpoint, Cary Town Center.

The entrance to the mall near CPK and B&N feels more like a dead space funnel with an unused bike rack to the side than a gathering/meeting space. At Southpoint, the fountain functions as a large communal bench to sit on to wait for people, and a landmark where a family can go their seperate ways and then meet back at a certain time before going to dinner or going home.

Ideally there would be pedestrian connections similar to the one from the mall to Dicks Sporting Goods going toward HH Gregg/Kmart, the Super Target complex and/or the Wal-Mart, but since the mall's owner doesn't own those properties, they get a moat of surface parking, destroying the walking experience. That is the closest Wal-Mart to a mall in the Triangle as well. I don't know if that is a sign of Wal-Mart trying to position itself as less stand alone big box/more connected-urbanish, seizing on the available land and connection to 540, or that TTC shoppers are closer to Wal-Mart's target demographic than shoppers.

[phoenixnc]

It's almost impossible to walk over to Dicks from the commons anyway because the drivers are so rude. It took several tries before cars would yield to me as I tried to cross... maybe if there were traffic calming devices, a stoplight with pedestrian crossings, or something...

This is my least favorite mall in the area, just because of it's lack of pedestrian friendliness, stores, and urbanity.

[Gard]

Found a website that has an advertisement for the Wal-Mart across from Target. Its part of a 72 Acre mixed use development that will include parcels for 3 restaurants, 2 hotels and 42,000 sq. ft. of shops.

http://www.faison.com/files/144/TrianglePl...e_IS_05-08s.pdf

[phoenixnc]

This area is quite possibly the dumbest, most poorly designed area in all of Raleigh, and possibly the entire triangle. Plantation Pointe makes absolutely no sense... acres of surface parking, cheap buildings (and most are vacant anyway), NO pedestrian connectivity, poorly designed excuse even for sprawl, and this is just another example. Again, this is why I like Crabtree so much more... although it is still pretty pedestrian unfriendly, at least it is more compact and all the big-box stuff has parking decks. Poyner Center also makes no sense. It is steps away from a decent mall, yet it has to isolate itself on a hill with a cheap retaining wall with again absolutely no pedestrian connectivity, acres of parking and scraggly trees. Everything is completely centered around the automobile with almost no consideration for the pedestrian. I thought this area was supposed to be a "special area" in Raleigh's comprehensive plan that is supposed to be mixed-use, multi-story, pedestrian-friendly environments, kind of like North Hills on a large scale. This Wal-Mart Center is just as bad... cut off from the rest of the area... will just create more traffic, etc.

I'm not anti-growth, just anti-stupid growth.

Sorry and that is all.

[dmccall]

The whole area was supposed to be a major design that would be walkable and accessible. What it's turned out to be is another South Square. Why can't we learn from other cities' mistakes? This is what's so frustrating about Capital Blvd. and planning in general.

[Gard]

The whole area was supposed to be a major design that would be walkable and accessible. What it's turned out to be is another South Square. Why can't we learn from other cities' mistakes? This is what's so frustrating about Capital Blvd. and planning in general.

Yeah I am amazed that despite a plan in place, city council basically ignored it. City coucil is just as responsible as the developers. The area really reminds me of Brier Creek parceled out to a bunch of different developers. Makes me wonder if this project was approved by the old or new city council.

[Jones_]

I get the feeling Capital Blvd and all of NE Raleigh has been allowed to be the ultimate developers playground. The council and City staff have declared that they will regulate and scrutinize everything else in the City, but do whatever the hell you want out there...I am being facetious of course but thats how it feels.

[Gard]

Was at TTC today and noticed that they filled 3 more spaces in the outdoor section. They put in a Suncom, some place that will watch your kids by the hour while you shop/go on a date/etc and some place that is opening soon that sounds like a bed store. Inside, Best Buy took 2 vacant spots and created a Best Buy Mobile, which was a nice thing to see in there. It is located on the lower level adjacent to the kids play area.

[DigitalSky]

I saw on the news [here in Charlotte] about the melee/brawl at TTC Mall... has TTC become a hotspot for crime now?

[serapis]

No. Isolated incident. Bumped up security should prevent the problem from happening again... Everyone keeps on talking about gangs. However most of the kids are just a bunch of suburban teenagers causing ruckus. The last time I checked whenever a riot breaks out among gangs, shots are fired and someones getting killed. None of that took place. Probably a promoted Myspace fight or what have you. Teens can be very stupid, I was once one.

[suburban george3]

I enjoy going to Triangle Towne Center when I'm in that area of Raleigh. I have never thought of it to be unsafe. I agree what happened last night was probably an isolated incident and had the same people been at another location at the same time the 'riot' would have happened there.

[Gard]

Its an isolated incident. I live practically a stones throw from the mall and go there all the time. Not once in the years I have been going to that mall have I ever seen or heard of anything bad happening there. I was actually driving by the mall when I saw swarms of Raleigh City Police, Wake County Sheriff and even state troopers swarming in there with there lights on, undercover cars and all. First time I've ever seen that happen. Needless to say I would imagine that might push the owners to put REAL security in the mall, on par with that at Crabtree.

Edit: Here is a link to a report on the incident: http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/3285984/

There owners are also considering a curfew for teens similar to that at Northgate in Durham: http://www.wral.com/news/state/story/3287203/

[Jones_]

Capital Blvd is not a long successful retail corridor for lots of reasons. Its all gas stations and used car dealers with a sprinkling of other car catering services. TTC is doing ok because its still the newest thing and the farthest out. Dicks Sporting goods followed it farther out Captial Blvd from its old location down by Buffalo/New Hope. The northern proximity of Wakefield and Heritage will not automatically cancel out the northward creep of decay and crime that has been following Capital Blvd from the south for the whole 21 years I have lived here.

[castong]

Why is everyone so quick to say this is an "isolated incident"? Triangle Town center has a crime problem. Check out this story from 2005: http://www.newsobserver.com/974/story/473657.html

Here's a stabbing at TTC in 2007: http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/557529.html

[RiverwoodCLT]

This can kill a mall. Eastland Mall in Charlotte has the same problem and now it is about to close. It is a shame that a group of thugs can dive people out of business.

[Gard]

Why is everyone so quick to say this is an "isolated incident"? Triangle Town center has a crime problem. Check out this story from 2005: http://www.newsobserver.com/974/story/473657.html

Here's a stabbing at TTC in 2007: http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/557529.html

That is the first brawl at TTC and therefore, in my eyes, its an "isolated incident." Until brawls become the norm, then it will stay that way. Also, one stabbing doesn't constitute a crime-laden area. Stabbings happen all over the place. We had a kidnapping and murder downtown, I guess DTR is a crime-laden area too if 1 stabbing and a brawl define an area as full of crime. From the article you posted above:

For the most part, police are not getting calls for major crimes at North Raleigh's shopping centers. The N&O analysis looked at police data for the four largest shopping areas: Brier Creek/Alexander Place Promenade, North Hills, Crabtree Valley Mall and Triangle Town Center/Poyner Place. After traffic calls, theft was the largest crime category at all four locations.

Hmm I see traffic calls happen all over the city, we must be one giant haven for crime!

[Gard]

There is an article this morning in the N&O about crime being a problem at malls in general, mostly because they are popular gathering spots for teens and loitering is easy to do in these places. Apparently the fight was between just a handful of teens and then, like a school fight, other kids joined in the foray, ignoring the police:

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/crime_saf...ry/1157600.html

[castong]

That is the first brawl at TTC and therefore, in my eyes, its an "isolated incident." Until brawls become the norm, then it will stay that way. Also, one stabbing doesn't constitute a crime-laden area. Stabbings happen all over the place. We had a kidnapping and murder downtown, I guess DTR is a crime-laden area too if 1 stabbing and a brawl define an area as full of crime. From the article you posted above:

Hmm I see traffic calls happen all over the city, we must be one giant haven for crime!

Actually, the brawl had a stabbing as well. So this is the second stabbing in 2 years. The other link you posted shows 2 more stabbings in 2005.

The police called this incident "gang related", which in my opinion would be dangerous to chalk up as an "isolated incident". Communities that deny there is a gang problem tend to get overrun by them.

RPD being called to TTC 700 times in 4 months? That may be normal in your neighborhood, but I call that a crime problem.

[Tayfromcarolina]

I'd like to see the stats for Southpoint Mall, They have had 2 actual shootings there since it opened and it opened around the same time TTC did. Plus they had the added draw of the Movie Theater at Southpoint, and last time I was there that made me really uncomfortable, in fact more uncomfortable than I've ever been at TTC. But it their defense they did beef up security and install the cameras. Silly that TTC hadnt installed cameras and all by now, it's been there what 4 years?

[ERG]

well it looks like raleigh as a whole is having issues with gangs. the nc state shooting is now gang-related. this is what happens when a city turns a blind eye and pretends gangs don't exist. i know they have recently ramped up their efforts and hopefully these incidents will stir them to act even more.