Progress Energy III (aka "Block B")

[Jones_]

Looking at the footprints of our other 30ish story buildings I am wondering how you get two on the lot considering that the City's parking deck will be right in the middle of the block...I doubt Highwoods will let themselves be severed from that MOU, and RBC needs the parking....if it happens Martin Street would be quite dense....

[ChiefJoJo]

Here's the site map for the area:

Note RBC to the west of Wilmington St, the parking deck site midblock facing Martin St, and the hatched out areas NW (pawn shop) & SW corners (Coopers BBQ) which will remain undeveloped (if they aren't persuaded to sell to HM).

You could fit a 30-story structure facing RBC Tower & Wilmington St to the west, and definitely one at the largest parcel at Blount/Davie corner IMO. There's also the potential for utilizing the air rights above the parking deck. I have to think someone (likely HM) is preserving/buying that for longer term high-rise development... to do otherwise would be foolish IMO.

[ncwebguy]

The Wilmington Street frontage could "bridge" over the deck entrance, like Palladium Plaza does over PE II's entrance. It could be one big space from the second or third floor up, with a street level lobby/retail component and entry from the deck. There will be some pedestrian connection from the deck to Wilmington for RBC plaza.

10 stories on the NW Davie/Blount corner would be a compliment to the deck portion of PE II. Since PE is selling the land, they might have had a provision to preserve the view from PE II's offices on the top of its structure toward Moore Square?

I hope the SW Blount/Martin corner doesn't overwhelm Moore Sqare and City Market, but it would be nice to see it be more than buildings on the block above, with the architects, Pour House, Duck and Dumpling, and Tir Na Nog with nothing above them. The Moore Square Parking deck should not be so prevalent/visible, and I hope the same is not in store for the PE III block's deck.

[RALNATIVE]

I really believe from these developments that there may be a Progress/Southern merger with HQs in Raleigh-just a gut level feeling.

[tkd720man]

I doubt there would be rumblings of two 30-story towers if the market couldn't support something significant.

Given the size of the lot we're talking about, though, these towers might be relatively thin. If they're more like PE 1, for example, then a pair of 30-story towers is definitely plausible.

Wasn't "a vision for connecting Moore Square with Fayeteville Street" or something like that one of the criteria that PE used to select the developer of this block? Perhaps one of these is a condo tower, the other a hotel tower? That might be the sort of "big-thinking" they were looking for when they picked Sandreuter.

I think it's a bit unlikely that Raleigh would land two more 30-story towers... but why not just one tower at 40 stories? It would be nice to see the skyline break past that 30-story barrier in a significant way - and hitting the 40-story mark would make a bold statement for anyone stamping their logo on its crown.

[uptownliving]

Livable Streets says there will be two 30-story towers in this spot.

Anyone know if this information is accurate?

[DanRNC]

The original RFP stipulated office space I believe?

[ChiefJoJo]

Yes, offices could be part of the deal and have been specifically mentioned-->click me.

[Transplant]

^ Southern Co is much bigger, no? I can't imagine a scenario where they'd move the HQ to Raleigh over Atlanta.

[plus2]

The Raleigh (/triangle) Market can not handle two 30 story office buildings coming online at the same time....unless there is someone moving here to fill them. I would love to see a new HQ move here.

[DanRNC]

I think there is a large market for office space in the Triangle if not a massive shortage. Lease rates are going up because of the lack of available space especially in DT Raleigh.

[Transplant]

I think there is a large market for office space in the Triangle if not a massive shortage. Lease rates are going up because of the lack of available space especially in DT Raleigh.

[uptownliving]

I would be surprised if a merged Southern / PE leads to a Raleigh HQ, but it is not unprecedented.

When Nations Bank and Bank of America merged, they moved to BOA's Charlotte HQ, even though it was much smaller.

The Raleigh (/triangle) Market can not handle two 30 story office buildings coming online at the same time....unless there is someone moving here to fill them. I would love to see a new HQ move here.

[plus2]

Wasn't the old SF bank called BankAmerica not "Bank of America"?

[Transplant]

I would be surprised if Progress bought Southern...especially since Southern has twice the market cap of Progress...they would have to come up with about $30B to buy Southern.

Regarding Nationsbank and BofA merging...at the time Nationsbank was a larger bank than BofA. Nationsbank was the one that bought BofA...but they kept BofA's name. They had dual HQ shortly after the merger in San Fran and Charlotte...but after a scandel involving the old BofA CEO they moved everything to Charlotte.

[uptownliving]

Wasn't the old SF bank called BankAmerica not "Bank of America"?

[uptownliving]

I did not imply that PE would by Southern. infact, I highly doubt they would. My point is that NB moved to BOA's home, the smaller's companies home.

[DanRNC]

Southern sounds dated.

[dmccall]

Yes. All references to the Civil War should be avoided; like "Blue", "Grey", "Brother", "North", "South", "Union", "Gunpowder", "Confederate", "Glory", "Uniform", "Rise", "Musket", "Plantation", and "Mustache".

Seriously, I wonder if the relocation into this project of something already downtown could open space for the Campbell Law School. Something like Capital Bank moving to taller, prouder digs. Just a thought.

[DanRNC]

Yes. All references to the Civil War should be avoided; like "Blue", "Grey", "Brother", "North", "South", "Union", "Gunpowder", "Confederate", "Glory", "Uniform", "Rise", "Musket", "Plantation", and "Mustache".

[ChiefJoJo]

Um, yeah...

If you want to discuss the merger issues, post in this topic, otherwise keep it on the topic of your ideas or specific plans for this block.

[uptownliving]

I think that Raleigh could support two 30 story condo towers on this block if they are priced right. The sellout of RBC Condos has shown the market is there.

[ChiefJoJo]

Personally I think the decision on any tall towers will be based on the relative market in three key areas...

1. Office... any new skyscraper will likely need a large office component, and perhaps a midsize to large corporate relocation from elsewhere in the US or from another location within the area (burbs, RTP), especially given the upcoming office space in RBC, Reynolds, and Site 1 by 2009 (~400k sf unleased I think) that needs to be absorbed by the market.

2. Hotel... the RCC will be open in 2008, so the market for hotel rooms will jump tremendously, and most think we won't have enough to support it with Marriott, Sheraton, Clarion, Lafayette... enter the possibility of a new mid-highrise hotel or condotel, a la Lafayette.

3. Residential... This probably could vary tremendously depending on interest rates in the coming months... I believe the apartment market is underserved right now, and if rates rize, that will only increase demand... On the other hand, if rates stay reasonably low and the market continues to absorb new condos into the market, that might be the way to go.

[bone450]

If they do add two towers they should build them to be iconic such as the World Trade Center, depending on how close together the two sites are going to be, what do you think?

[Jones_]

From a planning perspective I doubt you'll see two thirty story towers.....maybe one on Wilmington St....so as not to overwhelm City Market and Moore Square the City purposely wants development to step down as in appraoches Blount.....Progress Energy II is designed in accordance with these preferences by the City....I personally think sunlight hitting the cobblestone street (Belgian blocks..whatever) in City Market is part of the ambiance and would not want it stuck in the afternoon shadow of such a large building.....sorry for the sour grapes....