PROPOSED: Hotel Sierra (aka Sierra Suites)

[damus]

This is pretty good idea. We have actually been trying to do this with both Broad Street (hispanic) and Elmwood Ave (SE asian). Retail does not need very much encouragement down here - it is already thriving. It really just needs some cohesiveness and better connection to the rest of the city.

Aren't a lot of people against giving the impression of segregation, even if de facto segregation exists? I'm sure there would be some complaints from a vocal minority of concerned citizens, though I'm not too sure if the complainers would have a shot at winning.

[eltron]

Aren't a lot of people against giving the impression of segregation, even if de facto segregation exists? I'm sure there would be some complaints from a vocal minority of concerned citizens, though I'm not too sure if the complainers would have a shot at winning.

Its hardly segregation - just as Chinatowns in numerous cities have formed and thrived, ethnically related businesses just tend to form near each other, just as towns historically formed - to accomodate easy trade and access. As Garris noted, this can be a good way to market neighborhoods and build strong, healthy business districts.

But I see your point- there can always be one or two crazies who don't quite grasp reality.

[Recchia]

Broad Street is probably one of the most thriving retail corridors in the whole city. It's not talked about like Thayer Street or Atwells though, mainly because many suburban types consider it a ghetto...

[Jerry2]

Broad Street is probably one of the most thriving retail corridors in the whole city. It's not talked about like Thayer Street or Atwells though, mainly because many suburban types consider it a ghetto...

Yes, but it is a vibrant ghetto.

[Garris]

This is pretty good idea. We have actually been trying to do this with both Broad Street (hispanic) and Elmwood Ave (SE asian). Retail does not need very much encouragement down here - it is already thriving. It really just needs some cohesiveness and better connection to the rest of the city.

Fascinating. I'd love to hear what efforts you've been working on.

What Providence needs to do is what Minneapolis did... Fix up the sidewalks, install good lighting, place vertical banners with the chosen catchy nicknames, put up a website promoting the businesses and restaurants there, have a few press conferences, get some ProJo reporters to write some articles, and let news spread by word of mouth. There would need to be some buy-in by retailers, restaurants, and owners in fixing up their facades, spiffing up lots, etc.

It's amazing how much more adventurous people get in their shopping and dining when, as you point out, things get more cohesive, more accessable, and get "endorced" (in a way) by an entity they trust. It can change a neighborhood from being a "ghetto" (albeit a vibrant one) into a thriving economic "destination."

Again, the fact that such neighborhoods exist here is one of those things other cities would kill for and that we are grossly underutilizing.

- Garris

[Cotuit]

What Providence needs to do is what Minneapolis did... Fix up the sidewalks, install good lighting, place vertical banners with the chosen catchy nicknames, put up a website promoting the businesses and restaurants there, have a few press conferences, get some ProJo reporters to write some articles, and let news spread by word of mouth. There would need to be some buy-in by retailers, restaurants, and owners in fixing up their facades, spiffing up lots, etc.

Add frequent and reliable bus service from the CBD.

[Jerry2]

Add frequent and reliable bus service from the CBD.

Broad St. and Elmwood Ave. have one of the most frequent bus routes because half the buses going to Warwick, Cranston and points south pass through....but yes.....I agree.

[Cotuit]

Broad St. and Elmwood Ave. have one of the most frequent bus routes because half the buses going to Warwick, Cranston and points south pass through....but yes.....I agree.

The reliable is the important part there. There's probably several lines that serve the area, but only residents would know which ones they are, when they run, and where to catch them at Kennedy Plaza. Kind of like, as a local I know that I can catch the trolley to Federal Hill, but I can also keep an eye out for the 26, and I also know that the 26 may say 40 on it when it pulls into the plaza. And in a pinch I can jump the 27 which runs down Broadway.

[provid]

Does anyone have the approved render. Thom?

[ProCity Joe]

I happen to be looking at Portland, Maine's downtown area and came across this. I think a residential building with this kind of look built at the Sierra site would be more benefitial to washington st. than a hotel.

[Johnzo]

I happen to be looking at Portland, Maine's downtown area and came across this. I think a residential building with this kind of look built at the Sierra site would be more benefitial to washington st. than a hotel.

Those look nice. I say that BOTH those and the hotel would be more beneficial to Washington than either one or the other. I'd like to see something like Kimball Court on one of those empty lots on Washington.

[gregw]

I happen to be looking at Portland, Maine's downtown area and came across this. I think a residential building with this kind of look built at the Sierra site would be more benefitial to washington st. than a hotel.

Wow... That does look cool!

It also goes to show how well modernism can complement historic buildings through contrast. Unfortunately, a lot of folks in PVD don't get that and prefer fake historicism with replete with Dryvit detailing, etc.

[Pseudo_Work]

Wow... That does look cool!

It also goes to show how well modernism can complement historic buildings through contrast. Unfortunately, a lot of folks in PVD don't get that and prefer fake historicism with replete with Dryvit detailing, etc.

Frankly, spanky, I don't see what the problem is with building structures consistent with the historic fabric of any community. If nobody ever did that, then we wouldn't have the colonial revival homes in the turn-of-the-century realty platts on the east side, which are treasured districts, nor would we have any of the colonial revival features prominent in late Victorian architecture. If Providence values its historic character more than turning its downtown into a glassy new place, then leave us alone and let us do that. If our historic architecture is what sets us apart and makes us unique, then it makes perfect sense to build within that style, whether you happen to like it or not.

Even if we're not building historic replicas, would it hurt to use some bricks? For the sake of respecting the great style that our ancestors worked so hard to give us?

[somad]

A good question would be.. would it hurt Providence to mix the old with the new? Boston, for example, does this quite well. Let's face it, although a lot has survived most of downtown was destroyed. Keep the treasures (I liked the building next to Buck a Book that was torn down for 110, but it will be worth it IMO) and throw in the best modern architecture we can.

[Carter711]

I do think good modern architecture, executed properly, can compliment historic areas particularly in larger cities like Providence. But there are a number of smaller cities in NE that have chosen to reject modern in favor of the more traditional historic looking style. Portsmouth is a prime example. Developers have to go thru several work sessions with the Historic Commission and by the time the projects come out they're perfectly traditional historic looking brick structures. The right way to do it? The jury's still out. But here's some of Portsmouth's most recent developments that I think illustrates this well.

10 Congress Street

Hilton

28 Deer Street

[ArtInRuins]

But tis starts to look bland and uninteresting, because everything has the same "historic" look. You can effectively mix the old with the new and gt good contrast from new construction next to old construction... what I dont like is architecture that tries to look old and new at the same time. I just dont think that Providence has quite figured out how to have its own style yet, even if that style is a mixture.

Either way you slice it, the fact that Sierra Suites got the go ahead is troubling. Washington Street will lose a good deal of character no matter how good a job they did with the new building. That they didnt have to do more of a setback from the sidewalk or use the space over the existing parking structure next door is beyond me.

[Pseudo_Work]

But tis starts to look bland and uninteresting, because everything has the same "historic" look. You can effectively mix the old with the new and gt good contrast from new construction next to old construction... what I dont like is architecture that tries to look old and new at the same time. I just dont think that Providence has quite figured out how to have its own style yet, even if that style is a mixture.

Either way you slice it, the fact that Sierra Suites got the go ahead is troubling. Washington Street will lose a good deal of character no matter how good a job they did with the new building. That they didnt have to do more of a setback from the sidewalk or use the space over the existing parking structure next door is beyond me.

I couldn't agree with you more, especially on the issue of the use of space over the existing garage. Unwillingness to reuse any part of the former police complex, just up the street, is equally troubling to me. There's a very 1960s culture surfacing right now, of keeping only the oldest of the old, and sacraficing everything else in the name of efficiency or modernization. Have Savannah and Charleston really taught us nothing at all?

[Garris]

I couldn't agree with you more, especially on the issue of the use of space over the existing garage. Unwillingness to reuse any part of the former police complex, just up the street, is equally troubling to me. There's a very 1960s culture surfacing right now, of keeping only the oldest of the old, and sacraficing everything else in the name of efficiency or modernization. Have Savannah and Charleston really taught us nothing at all?

I was just thinking about these issues on the drive to work today. First, I think we'll see hyper-space utilization (using the neighboring garage, for example) as the city gets denser and more desirable. When the economics support it, companies will do crazy things to maximize space. Not so in our current downtown climate.

Second, regarding conservation, I really believe that not everything old is by definition valuble. The building on Washington St we're loosing, while old, really isn't that historic or that contributory in character to the Washington St streetscape. There are other, far, far more interesting buildings that are worthy of conservation there that we should fight tooth and nail over. We should also be fighting to get unused space (such as the parking lots and drive throughs there) utilized. As long Sierra Suites has a decent streetscape with retail on the sidewalk and some setbacks (all of which were fought for and won), I think things there will be fine.

It's the old conservation battle... Are we looking to preserve streets in amber, just fixing up everything from time to time? Or are we looking to preserve the best of the best and allow some evolution to take place otherwise? I think the answer is both. For a place like Benefit, the "amber" solution works best. For a vibrant commercial district like Washington? I think the "best of the best" approach would work...

What Washington St. needs most is activity and vitality, and I think the current Sierra Suites proposal, while far from perfect, will contribute to that, and its height will help balance the street, connecting the height of the Biltmore on one end to the height of E@B on the other.

- Garris

[Pseudo_Work]

A good question would be.. would it hurt Providence to mix the old with the new? Boston, for example, does this quite well. Let's face it, although a lot has survived most of downtown was destroyed. Keep the treasures (I liked the building next to Buck a Book that was torn down for 110, but it will be worth it IMO) and throw in the best modern architecture we can.

Destroyed? Have you EVER been to any of the many blighted cities in Connecticut? If not, I suggest you make it a point, so that you can see what historic architectural destruction really looks like.

[Pseudo_Work]

I was just thinking about these issues on the drive to work today. First, I think we'll see hyper-space utilization (using the neighboring garage, for example) as the city gets denser and more desirable. When the economics support it, companies will do crazy things to maximize space. Not so in our current downtown climate.

Second, regarding conservation, I really believe that not everything old is by definition valuble. The building on Washington St we're loosing, while old, really isn't that historic or that contributory in character to the Washington St streetscape. There are other, far, far more interesting buildings that are worthy of conservation there that we should fight tooth and nail over. We should also be fighting to get unused space (such as the parking lots and drive throughs there) utilized. As long Sierra Suites has a decent streetscape with retail on the sidewalk and some setbacks (all of which were fought for and won), I think things there will be fine.

What Washington St. needs most is activity and vitality, and I think the current Sierra Suites proposal, while far from perfect, will contribute to that, and its height will help balance the street, connecting the height of the Biltmore on one end to the height of E@B on the other.

- Garris

So the parking garage next to the turn-of-the-century commercial block is more valuable, and worthy of keeping? What sense does that make? Just becuase that building happens not to be the most outstanding in the city right now doesn't mean that it won't gain value later. It's exactly that mentality that robbed us of the dozen+ theaters that used to exist where all those empty lots now sit between Sabin, Union, Westminster, and Empire streets. We all frown at their destruction, yet continue the very same process to this day; why?

[gregw]

The building on Washington St we're loosing, while old, really isn't that historic or that contributory in character to the Washington St streetscape.

I have to disagree somewhat. No, the building on Wash. St. is not by any means an A-list building downtown. Nor does it have any claim to historical significance.

But it does help to define the look of the street through its use of materials, its height, its cornice line, and its lively storefronts.

Despite these assets, I think that a lot more people would accept its passing if they actually liked the Sierra Suites design in the same way that a lot of folks (even preservationists) were willing to say goodbye to the more elaborately designed bldg on Westminster because they think 110 has architectural integrity and will be a landmark.

Admittedly, I haven't seen the latest Sierra Suites design. The previous iterations were however crap in my opinion. The Cuban Restaurant bldg may be modest but it is definitely not crap. I think that debates often come down to personal tastes. I would prefer a somewhat grittier Washington St that still has some of that early 20th century urban character to the cleaner, more manicured, and more generic Washington St. that the Sierra Suites design will inevitably foster.

[Garris]

So the parking garage next to the turn-of-the-century commercial block is more valuable, and worthy of keeping? What sense does that make? Just becuase that building happens not to be the most outstanding in the city right now doesn't mean that it won't gain value later.

In a perfect world, of course you're right. We've obliterate the parking garage and put the Sierra Suites there. But as some people on the board have pointed out, we can't really play SimCity with such things.

I bet that parking garage is highly economically viable. I bet in an honest moment that the Trinity Rep would be sorry to see it go, as would Bravo and Gracies. I know folks who drive in from South County to see shows there, and that's where they always park. Would they come back as frequently if they knew they'd be hunting for spaces?

I'd rather put pressure on the parking garage owners to reskin that structure to something more harmonious with SS or the Trinity and reconfigure some streetfront space for retail.

Faced with that stark reality, would I rather save that rather unremarkable old 2 or 3 floor building or build a 15 floor Sierra Suites with ground level retail? Which is better for the street? I'd pick the later, as long as its design was acceptable, which I think it now is. I understand the perspective of the former, though.

- Garris

PS: BTW, keeping this on topic, does anyone know Sierra Suites timetable for building here?

[bhooley]

In regards to the ugly parking structure: even if they simply lit it up with some creative LED lighting it would improve it 1000 fold. Perhaps a rotating color scheme going up those corrugated separators?

Too bad that'll never happen though...

The JD is going to be a very interesting place once the highway is moved. I'm actually kind of surprised more develepors haven't eaten up some of the buildings that will be prime real estate once the project is completed. Something like Restaurant Prov - hidden and not the most welcoming streetscape, but once the highway is gone, wow that's going to be a sought after location.

[Garris]

I think that debates often come down to personal tastes. I would prefer a somewhat grittier Washington St that still has some of that early 20th century urban character to the cleaner, more manicured, and more generic Washington St. that the Sierra Suites design will inevitably foster.

I think you're right, it is somewhat a matter of taste... I am one of those who thinks Washington St can and should be scrubbed up a bit. I think it's the streetscape, and not the grit, which makes it special. I think the grit is actually holding it back.

I think with Trinity, Bravo, Gracies, Roger Williams, the AS220 hotel project, etc it's kind of heading in that direction already, and this will reinforce that. Sierra Suites, while no gem, has a suitably urban form, a nod to the height and presense of surrounding structures in its setback, ground level retail, and no surface parking.

I think it's good enough for what it is, not great.

- Garris

[Cotuit]

What got me thinking about this issue was driving on 195 today and looking at the Jewelry District. If after 195 is gone and that becomes a hot development area, what would we want to save there and what could go? It's a mish mosh of different buildings (some one story) and styles, some viable, some not, often surrounded by surface lots. Do we try to aim to preserve all of the JD in amber, or do we allow for some reimagination of that area?

Discuss...

- Garris

Garris, would you like to start a topic on that in the Providence section? I think it's a good topic for discussion.