University of Arkansas Projects

[akahogfan]

I wonder if anything will be done to compensate for the 1st and 2nd story entrances to Science/Engineering that appear to be lost. I've never been a big fan of the SCEN building because it seems far to sterile, but the fact that it really doesn't have a true entrance or foyer doesn't help in my mind.

Yeah, it's the stuff on top I'm not quite sure what is. If I was back in Fayetteville I'd go find out... The auditorium itself is certainly what's built into the hill with the large entrance at the street level and it appears another one in the tunnel (I will admit to liking the tunnel idea), I just don't know that's all supposed to connect together. I'm sure more information will come out before construction starts, and I'll keep an ear to the ground.

Out of curiosity, do you have contacts with the university, or is all of this info freely available somewhere?

[Mith242]

Thanks for posting these. I actually hadn't seen the rendering for the hillside project, but this is interesting. I like the idea of putting it underground and building the hill back up around it, but I'm not entirely sure what they're showing us in part of the rendering.

Here's the site as it currently exists:

As you can see, the old SEAU will be demolished along with the old geology building below it, and they'll build the new auditorium to have a large entrance off of Dickson street and what appears to be a side tunnel entrance where a new walkway will go up the hill between the greek theater and the new auditorium connecting the Dickson Street sidewalks and the Campus Dr. sidewalks (students coming out of JB Hunt or Mechanical Engineering are bound to appreciate that walkway). What is difficult to tell from this small rendering is what is happening at the top of the hill. If the ground is terraced up like the image appears to show, will there be an entrance at the top of the hill at all, and if so, how exactly is that going to be built? It looks like the auditorium itself will be built into the hill lower than the current auditorium, which would make it significantly larger if they went up to the existing entrance level of SEAU, but what appears to be a terrace halfway up the hill to build up the ground to sidewalk level implies that might not be what they're planning to do. I'm also not sure what the thing I've circled in blue is supposed to be. If it's connected to the auditorium, it's much too large to just be an entrance, but if they're building classroom space into that (and possibly the terraced level of the hill above the auditorium?), why is it only one story? I've included the rendering below with the new walkpath in red, entrances in green, and the thing I'm confused about in blue:

I had heard this project discussed at one point to potentially be an auditorium in the bottom levels of a new academic building (they are going to need more standard classroom space really soon), but this rendering makes it seem like they've chosen not to do that. It makes me wonder if it's being built so they can build up off of it if they want to in the future (why the U of A doesn't make more of their buildings taller or at least build them so they can have additional stories added on to them is a question I've asked repeatedly, since they simply don't have enough land to keep building new 4-5 story buildings. JB Hunt, Walker, and Nanoscale should have all really been 2-3 stories taller if they were planning ahead for the growth in enrollment, and you all know how I feel about how space inefficient the Maple Hill complex is... those buildings should have been at least 6 stories a piece instead of 4.), or if they're just trying to add green space back to that section of campus while getting the same amount of use out of the land.

Yeah it is a little hard to understand what they're doing in that small rendering. And is it just me or does the scale seem a bit off in that small rendering? I also certainly agree with you on the building levels with the U of A. I can understand focusing on some low rise buildings. But it just seems like they really need to do some mid rise buildings because of space restraints. Maybe they feel they can somehow come up with more land. Although we are talking about the same place that didn't buy the Fayetteville High location.

[comreguy]

Although we are talking about the same place that didn't buy the Fayetteville High location.

To be clear, Fayetteville School Board didn't sell it to the U of A. They were a ready and willing buyer at a price that was almost twice what the site was worth. Bobby New overplayed his hand and the U of A had to drop the offer.

[thewizard16]

I wonder if anything will be done to compensate for the 1st and 2nd story entrances to Science/Engineering that appear to be lost. I've never been a big fan of the SCEN building because it seems far to sterile, but the fact that it really doesn't have a true entrance or foyer doesn't help in my mind.

Out of curiosity, do you have contacts with the university, or is all of this info freely available somewhere?

I hadn't even noticed that, I was just glad they were removing that staircase since it was always so depressing looking. They could build entrances off of the new auditorium if they were so inclined, which if connected to that top thing, could make it an interesting building. Not sure what the plan is though.

I used to work with the U of A in a variety of roles which did help keep me in the loop. There are a few people I still talk to "in the know", but the ones that would be able to answer my questions about this would probably consider it strange if I just called them up and started asking questions about this project.

Yeah it is a little hard to understand what they're doing in that small rendering. And is it just me or does the scale seem a bit off in that small rendering? I also certainly agree with you on the building levels with the U of A. I can understand focusing on some low rise buildings. But it just seems like they really need to do some mid rise buildings because of space restraints. Maybe they feel they can somehow come up with more land. Although we are talking about the same place that didn't buy the Fayetteville High location.

The building height issue is one I was never able to get a straight answer to. They'll mention things about fire safety being greater in shorter buildings, but the majority of large universities have academic buildings taller than 5 stories and don't have issues (plus, they already have a number of 9-11 story buildings from the 60s, so what's the problem?). I think in ten years they'll probably regret not having made JB Hunt and Walker taller when they had the chance, but we'll see. There are some good people working with planning and development, hopefully they have a better long term plan than we're aware of.

The land acquisition studies/plans probably aren't sufficient to provide for growth unless they got really ambitious and had swallowed up a huge chunk of ground like they could have Fayetteville High campus. I wasn't a fan of that acquisition and I think incorporating that land into the main campus plan would have been very difficult at best, but it would have at least been a lot of land. I think the price was too high considering they'd essentially have had to level almost all of it and then figure out a way to build there that works with the campus as a whole (maybe moving new residential construction down there and leveling some old buildings for academic space, but that would also be extremely expensive), but that's all in the past. As it stands right now, I'm not sure what they're going to do to meet future space demands. If they want to build many more buildings, they need more land, but there's no usable unoccupied land anywhere surrounding the main part of campus so they'd need to start buying up residential areas and leveling them, which would be very expensive but not impossible. There are a couple decent sized building spots left they're likely to use (although the one on the far SE part of the Old Main lawn I'm not thrilled about) and a couple buildings they can finish out to increase some space, but they're going to run themselves out of building space and green space if they're not careful with long-term planning.

[Mith242]

To be clear, Fayetteville School Board didn't sell it to the U of A. They were a ready and willing buyer at a price that was almost twice what the site was worth. Bobby New overplayed his hand and the U of A had to drop the offer.

I stand corrected.

[Mith242]

The building height issue is one I was never able to get a straight answer to. They'll mention things about fire safety being greater in shorter buildings, but the majority of large universities have academic buildings taller than 5 stories and don't have issues (plus, they already have a number of 9-11 story buildings from the 60s, so what's the problem?). I think in ten years they'll probably regret not having made JB Hunt and Walker taller when they had the chance, but we'll see. There are some good people working with planning and development, hopefully they have a better long term plan than we're aware of.

The land acquisition studies/plans probably aren't sufficient to provide for growth unless they got really ambitious and had swallowed up a huge chunk of ground like they could have Fayetteville High campus. I wasn't a fan of that acquisition and I think incorporating that land into the main campus plan would have been very difficult at best, but it would have at least been a lot of land. I think the price was too high considering they'd essentially have had to level almost all of it and then figure out a way to build there that works with the campus as a whole (maybe moving new residential construction down there and leveling some old buildings for academic space, but that would also be extremely expensive), but that's all in the past. As it stands right now, I'm not sure what they're going to do to meet future space demands. If they want to build many more buildings, they need more land, but there's no usable unoccupied land anywhere surrounding the main part of campus so they'd need to start buying up residential areas and leveling them, which would be very expensive but not impossible. There are a couple decent sized building spots left they're likely to use (although the one on the far SE part of the Old Main lawn I'm not thrilled about) and a couple buildings they can finish out to increase some space, but they're going to run themselves out of building space and green space if they're not careful with long-term planning.

I do have to agree buying Fayetteville High wouldn't have been the best fit for the university. But yeah it would have given them a good chunk of land to work with. But I have no qualms with the new high schools plans being there. But as you mentioned, there is available land by means of the residential houses on the outskirts of the university. But as you mentioned, that seems to be a tedious way to go about it. You could have one homeowner on a block unwilling to sell out that could ruin any good plans for expansion. Although I wouldn't have any problems with the U 0f A putting up some 10-15 story buildings, I don't think they really would have to do that. As several of us have mentioned before. Just raise some of the current projects a few stories. I think just that wouldn't compromise any building 'safety' and works a lot better for any long term plans. But hey maybe they've got something already planned. But from the perspective from those of us on the 'outside' it just seems like they don't really have any real long term plans mapped out very well. That or they're just leaving themselves rather limited with future growth.

[thewizard16]

I do have to agree buying Fayetteville High wouldn't have been the best fit for the university. But yeah it would have given them a good chunk of land to work with. But I have no qualms with the new high schools plans being there. But as you mentioned, there is available land by means of the residential houses on the outskirts of the university. But as you mentioned, that seems to be a tedious way to go about it. You could have one homeowner on a block unwilling to sell out that could ruin any good plans for expansion. Although I wouldn't have any problems with the U 0f A putting up some 10-15 story buildings, I don't think they really would have to do that. As several of us have mentioned before. Just raise some of the current projects a few stories. I think just that wouldn't compromise any building 'safety' and works a lot better for any long term plans. But hey maybe they've got something already planned. But from the perspective from those of us on the 'outside' it just seems like they don't really have any real long term plans mapped out very well. That or they're just leaving themselves rather limited with future growth.

That's the most important question- how big do they intend to get? If the 25,000 goal is where they want to put a stop to things and make admissions more restrictive at that level, then they probably have enough room on the main campus to accommodate it with the building expansions and a couple new buildings. It's been growing faster than anticipated the last few years and that growth rate can't continue indefinitely, but I've never heard mention of a final "goal" for campus size (although I do think if they set one it will be a bit higher than 25,000). They'll have to set one eventually, and I'm confident that the current leadership doesn't want it to ever become some massive sprawly place like the University of Florida/Texas A&M or UT/Ohio State/etc, but they're going to need more housing, more recreation space, and more academic buildings as they hit those numbers. Only time will tell I guess.

A single homeowner likely wouldn't be able to stop the University from buying up a neighborhood in most cases since they can use eminent domain if needed (obviously they wouldn't want that to happen for a variety of PR and political reasons, but it is possible), and most of what they'd probably be looking at buying isn't anything particularly special or historic since it's been redeveloped so many times, but who knows how it would play out.

[zman9810]

I think any further expansion into the residential neighborhoods around campus will meet with a lot of resistance. The past few years there has been growing resentment about the university taking affordable housing and historic structures and demolishing them. Like has been mentioned- growing vertically, even if only a few stories, is much better and would maximize the limited amount of space in the area.

[thewizard16]

I think any further expansion into the residential neighborhoods around campus will meet with a lot of resistance. The past few years there has been growing resentment about the university taking affordable housing and historic structures and demolishing them. Like has been mentioned- growing vertically, even if only a few stories, is much better and would maximize the limited amount of space in the area.

Possibly, but the resistance wouldn't really matter for anything other than PR reasons if the University was determined it needed a piece of property. I don't think they'd do that though, politics are a dangerous game- and if they decide they need to buy up a neighborhood or plot of land, I'm sure they'd have a meeting with the owners of the area and see how it could be done amicably. They're also likely to target the cheapest possible area with the least "significant" buildings, etc. (I don't expect this will be an issue they feel needs to be addressed for several years though.)

What resentment though? I'm not aware of them buying any affordable housing or historic structures and demolishing them? The only thing significant that's been demolished recently was the Carlson Terrace, and that was theirs to begin with (and it essentially couldn't be repaired). They haven't really expanded into any residential neighborhoods, so I'm not quite sure what you're referring to.

[Mith242]

A single homeowner likely wouldn't be able to stop the University from buying up a neighborhood in most cases since they can use eminent domain if needed (obviously they wouldn't want that to happen for a variety of PR and political reasons, but it is possible), and most of what they'd probably be looking at buying isn't anything particularly special or historic since it's been redeveloped so many times, but who knows how it would play out.

I've certainly heard of cities using eminent domain but I haven't heard of a university using it. Although they in many ways are a bit like their own city.

Possibly, but the resistance wouldn't really matter for anything other than PR reasons if the University was determined it needed a piece of property. I don't think they'd do that though, politics are a dangerous game- and if they decide they need to buy up a neighborhood or plot of land, I'm sure they'd have a meeting with the owners of the area and see how it could be done amicably. They're also likely to target the cheapest possible area with the least "significant" buildings, etc. (I don't expect this will be an issue they feel needs to be addressed for several years though.)

What resentment though? I'm not aware of them buying any affordable housing or historic structures and demolishing them? The only thing significant that's been demolished recently was the Carlson Terrace, and that was theirs to begin with (and it essentially couldn't be repaired). They haven't really expanded into any residential neighborhoods, so I'm not quite sure what you're referring to.

Yeah that could be a big PR problem. But overall I have to agree with you and I think the university wouldn't try forcing the issue.

[zman9810]

What resentment though? I'm not aware of them buying any affordable housing or historic structures and demolishing them? The only thing significant that's been demolished recently was the Carlson Terrace, and that was theirs to begin with (and it essentially couldn't be repaired). They haven't really expanded into any residential neighborhoods, so I'm not quite sure what you're referring to.

Two examples are the row of houses that were along the east side of Duncan Ave. where the apartments are now and were low rent compared to the apartments plus the rock 4H building where the Garland parking deck is now. The houses along what is now Clinton Ave. haven't been demolished but were affordable housing that isn't available now. I'm not saying the university shouldn't expand but there are some people who see some of the school's aquisitions as encroachment on their neighborhoods and are against it.

[thewizard16]

I've certainly heard of cities using eminent domain but I haven't heard of a university using it. Although they in many ways are a bit like their own city.

Like I said, I really doubt they would unless it was to a point where they felt they had no other option, but it's been established they could if they wanted to apparently.

Two examples are the row of houses that were along the east side of Duncan Ave. where the apartments are now and were low rent compared to the apartments plus the rock 4H building where the Garland parking deck is now. The houses along what is now Clinton Ave. haven't been demolished but were affordable housing that isn't available now. I'm not saying the university shouldn't expand but there are some people who see some of the school's aquisitions as encroachment on their neighborhoods and are against it.

Ah, I see. I had forgotten about the houses along Duncan- did the UofA already own those before the Duncan Ave. apartment project, or did they buy them right before? I know they own some of the existing houses on Lindell and Oakland that are no doubt being held onto as potential sites for redevelopment and expansion, and I was under the impression they owned that rock building before building the Garland Center (although I am impressed they only had to take down one building to build a project that large), but I never really heard much about that.

There are a few reasons I have no problem with them taking down houses/places like that, but it's not because they're affordable housing, it's because for the most part, they're bad affordable housing. This is a problem I see a lot on Leverett, and along the north, east, and to an extent, the west edges of campus. There are a lot of houses along those stretches that could be nice places, but have been let fall into various stages of disrepair and neglect, but still charge as much for rent as some reasonably nice apartment complexes around town. There's just no excuse for that considering how well maintained some of the places off Wedington or Mission are that really don't charge any more for rent. There are areas near Dickson Street where it boggles my mind how badly the houses have been let go in what should be a beautiful, walkable downtown area that instead looks like the beginnings of a slum. I think that any project that revitalizes or replaces those houses is a plus for the city, but I do recognize that Fayetteville certainly needs affordable housing too, perhaps just not in that location or in the existing form. I don't feel it's very realistic for the affordable housing to be single family homes in a high density part of town. That's not how it works in almost any real city, and it's not a logical way for a city to develop either. In both those cases you mentioned, the UofA greatly increased the appeal of the neighborhood for the people that still live in the existing affordable homes/apartments near there without just leveling blocks and driving people out, so I don't see why what they did should create any resentment, but then again, I haven't lived in one of those neighborhoods my entire life and don't have any sentimental connection to them. That institution does so much to reach out to the needs of the low-income community in Fayetteville that I just can't imagine viewing any expansion they'd need to do as an attack on the poor, but I am sure you're right in that it could be painted that way considering their options for expansion along the main campus property. One of the few areas I think they can realistically buy properties and expand into is the space between Maple and North Streets (bounded by Garland and the railroad), but you're certainly right that to do that they would have to remove a lot of existing (mostly affordable) housing. I'm not disagreeing with you, but it's a mindset I just hadn't really considered before due to the condition most of those neighborhoods are in.

[wmr]

If the University eventually expanded to encompass that entire neighborhood from Maple to North, I think it would be a great thing.

Very little, if any of that area is owner-occupied housing. They are rentals. Maybe 1 out of 10 homes in that area are not rentals, if that.

There is not a shortage of affordable housing in that area of town. There is not a shortage of affordable rentals in Fayetteville as a whole, IMO.

Its not as cheap as Springdale, but there are always empty apartments and people making deals.

[zman9810]

Well...as far as housing goes I think there will always be a market for the cheap rent single family homes where the landlords are willing to let the tenants trash the place out. The landlords justify this financially by not keeping the house up and the tenants are just fine with it for the freedom to do as they wish. Apartment complexs generally are more restrictive by necessity and have less privacy by nature.

[varchi]

Hey there,

This is my first time posting anything to this thread. Have you guys seen or heard about the new campus gate? I think it's called the "Pi Beta Phi Gate and campus walk extension". Here is an illustration of it from the planning group's page. They appear to have already begun.

[Mith242]

Hey there,

This is my first time posting anything to this thread. Have you guys seen or heard about the new campus gate? I think it's called the "Pi Beta Phi Gate and campus walk extension". Here is an illustration of it from the planning group's page. They appear to have already begun.

Hey varchi welcome to the forum. Yeah actually there has been mention of the gate before. It might be buried a bit back in this topic. I think the news originally came out on it a while back. So it may not have been mentioned in a while. But thanks for the update. I wasn't sure when they were going to actually start that project.

[zman9810]

Hey there,

This is my first time posting anything to this thread. Have you guys seen or heard about the new campus gate? I think it's called the "Pi Beta Phi Gate and campus walk extension". Here is an illustration of it from the planning group's page. They appear to have already begun.

I think this will make that area much nicer even though it will take a few very convenient parking spaces. That is one pricy gate- the sorority needs to raise $1.1 million for it and the entire campus walk extension will be over $2.5 million. Their celebration of 100 years on campus is quite a contribution to the university.

[wmr]

The lottery's effect can't be exactly measured, but it's not driving most of the growth. It is still a very positive thing, and may allow many students to attend 4-year colleges in state that otherwise would not, and it may serve to help retain some students that would have otherwise gone out of state. In-state enrollment is up an estimated 200-250 for this next year, and it's unlikely that's all from the lottery considering there was a measurable drop in in-state new freshman last year. It does exceed the 2008 (record freshman class) enrollment for the UofA in in-state numbers though, so at least a little of the growth is probably lottery.

Yes, they do need to plan for the increased enrollment with housing (they're working on it with the academic spaces and there are several significant projects planned in the next few years). I wouldn't be surprised to see more upperclassmen being encouraged to live off-campus in the next few years, and the off-campus housing service expanding to assist with that goal. I'm not sure where they're going to put people when they start taking Pomfret (the largest individual residence hall) offline next summer (in phases, luckily) to start it's renovation.

I found these renovations for new McIlroy Hill housing online. I hope these new dorms mimic Gregson well. I also hope that square section is some kind of gothic-type tower with a view. This building will take away the last unobstructed mountain view on campus.

[Mith242]

I found these renovations for new McIlroy Hill housing online. I hope these new dorms mimic Gregson well. I also hope that square section is some kind of gothic-type tower with a view. This building will take away the last unobstructed mountain view on campus.

Doesn't look like that site is going to let your link work.

[zman9810]

Doesn't look like that site is going to let your link work.

I even went to the woopig site and still couldn't find it.

[Mith242]

I think a lot of us have heard about the future work being done to Vol Walker and Ozark Hall. But now more info is coming out about the construction process. Apparently plans include putting in a gravel road through the Old Main lawn and taking down a section of stone wall on Arkansas Ave. Sounds like the plan is to put this in directly from the end of Lafayette. But some residents aren't too happy with that plan, including Paula Marinoni. I don't tend to see eye to eye with Paula Marinoni, and while I may not be opposed to the plan as she is. I do have some concerns about this. U of A officials have stated they aren't taking this lightly but this plan was the best option to pedestrian and vehicular traffic. I haven't heard if the same plans will have to include cutting down any of the trees on the Old Main lawn. It hasn't been stated but I'm going under the assumption that the wall will be rebuilt using the same stone that was there. While I may not be very happy about this plan, I do admit it's not going to be easy having equipment going in and out from access points from Dickson or Maple either. Especially considering how it will affect students walking on campus. I do want to see these projects happen. I just hope the university will make every effort to return the wall and Old Main lawn to it's current state.

[Snaple4]

The article I read said the blocks would be numbered and carefully stored. I am not a big fan of playing on the old main lawn and having to have heavy machinery move past me but it seems like the idea has been thought through.i would have my own route suggestions but I there must be a reason they went all the way through the lawn.

Also, it mentioned that construction roads have existed on the old main lawn before.

[Mith242]

The article I read said the blocks would be numbered and carefully stored. I am not a big fan of playing on the old main lawn and having to have heavy machinery move past me but it seems like the idea has been thought through.i would have my own route suggestions but I there must be a reason they went all the way through the lawn.

Also, it mentioned that construction roads have existed on the old main lawn before.

Yeah while I wish there was another way. This probably makes more sense. Putting it further west just means it's going to interfere more and more with students walking around between classes. I'm certainly not saying I don't want projects shot down because of this. And besides I don't see what nearby residents can do about it anyway. It is university's property. I imagine the university has thought all of this through.

[zman9810]

It seems the opposition is the typical NIMBY attitude that someone always had- and that is just because it will mean Lafayette will get more traffic. The benefits of all the new construction and renovations on campus outweight the cons.

[Mith242]

It seems the opposition is the typical NIMBY attitude that someone always had- and that is just because it will mean Lafayette will get more traffic. The benefits of all the new construction and renovations on campus outweigh the cons.

Yeah I admit my knee jerk reaction when I first heard about it was that I didn't like the idea. But the more I thought about it the more I could see why it's being done this way. I wish there was a better alternative. But the other alternatives pose their own problems as well. Also the more I hear about this whole situation the more I realized that a lot of the outcry seems to be more or less NIMBYism. I admit if I lived on Lafayette I probably wouldn't be enthused about this plan. But I'd like to think that I'd realize there's a reason for it and just deal with it. Just like you said, the pros outweigh the cons.