North Carolina Biotech Research Campus

[voyager12]

I don't think anyone is saying that this campus is going to be the next Research Triangle Park. From just a layman's perspective, I think it has the right ingredients for success. It will take years to for the site to reach full potential and begin attracting related services to pop up around it. One vulnerability is the public school district in the region. They are going to have to raise the bar to attract scientists and other professionals with families.

[BobbyRobert]

While I am certainly rooting for the campus to succeed I remain skeptical. Nearly every other state has an active program to create a biotech cluster, what makes this effort better than the 40+ other programs currently underway? While Murdock has done a commendable job of providing the basic ingredients of success: nice, plentiful laboratory space, extraordinary equipment and a $200 million VC fund, this infrastructure does little to distinguish Kannapolis from all of the other

[monsoon]

This is admittedly a superficial comparison ..... (or even the wider Charlotte area) can compete in this labor market.

Indeed it is. Your comparison represents a vast misunderstanding and lack of knowledge of the Charlotte area. This place did not get to be the largest metro in the Carolinas by being a place that people don't want to live in, and it is a mistake to think there are not many educated people including those involved in heavy duty research, living here.

[BobbyRobert]

Indeed it is. Your comparison represents a vast misunderstanding and lack of knowledge of the Charlotte area.

How so? I wasn't speaking about Charlotte in general terms (e.g. all industries), I was speaking about the Cabarrus / rowan area in terms of its ability to support biotech.

This place did not get to be the largest metro in the Carolinas by being a place that people don't want to live in, and it is a mistake to think there are not many educated people including those involved in heavy duty research, living here.

I did not intend to suggest that Charlotte cannot attract large numbers of skilled people. But, the fact remains, Kannapolis is 30 miles from Charlotte, I am suggesting that Charlotte's ability to attract people may not extend that far.

and it is a mistake to think there are not many educated people including those involved in heavy duty research, living here.

I didn't intend to suggest that either. I did say that Charlotte has a very small number of people working in the biosciences at the level necessary to support the research campus. Its unrealistic to expect a mechanical engineer to suddenly become a specialists in cell biology. This relative shortage of bioscience worker is going to make it more difficult to attract this group to Kannapolis than it would be to get them to the Triangle, West Palm Beach, or any of the other dozen or so operating biotech clusters in the country.

[ElricSeven]

While I am certainly rooting for the campus to succeed I remain skeptical. Nearly every other state has an active program to create a biotech cluster, what makes this effort better than the 40+ other programs currently underway? While Murdock has done a commendable job of providing the basic ingredients of success: nice, plentiful laboratory space, extraordinary equipment and a $200 million VC fund, this infrastructure does little to distinguish Kannapolis from all of the other

[Miesian Corners]

^All those things are great, but they still don't give the region the "critical mass" it needs to succeed as a hub for biotechnology. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it do great, but when you compare it to other biotech campuses in the USA, it fails to hit the mark. Access and adjacency to large universities and/or facilities is one of the most important factors that make every successful park work. Add to that the lack of highly-skilled labor (in biosciences) in the area and the place is simply not going to be what it is being billed as.

[uptownliving]

I don't think anyone has stated that the NCRC was going to become a biotech hub. If anything it is being looked at as a node on the RTP biotech hub. NCRC is not trying to recreate or compete with what RTP is doing, but rather add to it. There are too many biotech experienced people with their hands in there shaping NCRC for it to be a failure.

[DanRNC]

I really think they shot off their mouths too early about being a major biotech hub. After Safrit and gang got out in the real world that bravado ceased pretty quickly. I do think they will attract some companies to the facility however but this will not transform Kannapolis into a major player in biotech-thats the reality.

[uptownliving]

Hopefully these scientists will be smart enough to take the Amtrak train which is 2 blocks from the lab in Kannapolis and drops you off 5 blocks from the Duke East Campus in Durham. Yes, I know that almost all the lab space is not on East Campus, but from there you could catch the free shuttle back to main campus.

This will become a much more viable connection one they add the mid-day train. You won't have to deal with that boring drive between Durham/RTP and Kannapolis.

[monsoon]

I find it interesting that people are predicting the failure of this place before they even have the walls and roof on the first building. There does not seem to be any reason for this except for the fact that it is located in Rowan/Cabarrus county. A billion dollars in seed money is going to attract a lot of critical mass.

In terms of liveability, the area has a lot going for it. The state's largest inland lake along with some of the highest end living in the state is just 15 minutes from there. I would stack up the Lake Norman area with any other place in the state in terms of amenities. And of course downtown Charlotte is just 25 minutes from there. Has anyone who works in RTP timed getting to Raleigh in the afternoon? I've done this and it sure seemed a lot longer than 30 minutes to me.

[Miesian Corners]

I don't think anyone has stated that the NCRC was going to become a biotech hub. If anything it is being looked at as a node on the RTP biotech hub. NCRC is not trying to recreate or compete with what RTP is doing, but rather add to it. There are too many biotech experienced people with their hands in there shaping NCRC for it to be a failure.

From the NCRC website: The North Carolina Research Campus under way in Kannapolis promises to enrich and bolster our state the way the Research Triangle Park (RTP) changed the Raleigh-Durham region. Not since the world-renowned RTP opened in 1965 has the state welcomed an economic development project with such far-reaching potential.

Am I reading it wrong, or are they comparing themselves to what RTP did in the Triangle? Not trying to start an argument, but I think they have, indeed, been trying to say that they're going to be "all that". I had a conversation with someone working on some E.D. for the NCRC last week. She told me that in the many discussions she's had with folks at NC State, they are not planning on taking ANY power away from Raleigh and handing it over to a brand new place 125 miles away. I think that says it all--Kannapolis stays periphery, Raleigh stays core (at least in terms of biotech and the UNC system).

[monsoon]

This is a report from the North Carolina Biotechnology Center" about the facility in Kannapolis.

It says this about the project.

"The report confirmed that the North Carolina Research Campus has the potential to be a major economic engine for the region with an estimated 37,450 jobs created by 2032. During the same time-frame, the estimated job impact in Cabarrus County is 13,616, while the estimate is 4,520 in Rowan County."

These would be the people who would really know. This report came out on Oct 19th.

[ElricSeven]

I think the discussion here is not that anyone thinks it will fail, just that they think the scope has been overstated. From our perspective, though, a dozen new technology startups is a big boost for the area. Sure it pales in comparison to RTP, but that's a big boost for a town with no hope at all three years ago. I don't think it's been oversold at all and probably looks like a miracle to most Kannapolis residents.

[ElricSeven]

From the NCRC website: The North Carolina Research Campus under way in Kannapolis promises to enrich and bolster our state the way the Research Triangle Park (RTP) changed the Raleigh-Durham region. Not since the world-renowned RTP opened in 1965 has the state welcomed an economic development project with such far-reaching potential.

Am I reading it wrong, or are they comparing themselves to what RTP did in the Triangle? Not trying to start an argument, but I think they have, indeed, been trying to say that they're going to be "all that". I had a conversation with someone working on some E.D. for the NCRC last week. She told me that in the many discussions she's had with folks at NC State, they are not planning on taking ANY power away from Raleigh and handing it over to a brand new place 125 miles away. I think that says it all--Kannapolis stays periphery, Raleigh stays core (at least in terms of biotech and the UNC system).

They said nothing about replacement in that statement 'the way the Research Triangle Park (RTP) changed the Raleigh-Durham region.' In other words, by taking a rural community and introducing a technology-based economic engine. I don't think anyone is intimating that it's going to be the scope an magnitude of RTP's current cluster. Just that it has the far reaching potential to have that effect. Potential. IMHO, they're quite reasonable in that statement.

[krazeeboi]

I see this campus more on the level of PTRP in Winston-Salem than RTP.

[monsoon]

How so? I wasn't speaking about Charlotte in general terms (e.g. all industries), I was speaking about the Cabarrus / rowan area in terms of its ability to support biotech.

.....

Hey, it was you who said it your comparison was superficial. I was in agreement with you on that by pointing out the possible reason that it was superficial.

[DanRNC]

Bottom line is that you don't need to travel that distance anyway-you can use FedEx. We collaborate with people all over the world but have yet had to leave Duke to get my research done. Blot some DNA on filter paper and throw it in the mail.

[uptownliving]

From the NCRC website: The North Carolina Research Campus under way in Kannapolis promises to enrich and bolster our state the way the Research Triangle Park (RTP) changed the Raleigh-Durham region. Not since the world-renowned RTP opened in 1965 has the state welcomed an economic development project with such far-reaching potential.

Am I reading it wrong, or are they comparing themselves to what RTP did in the Triangle? Not trying to start an argument, but I think they have, indeed, been trying to say that they're going to be "all that". I had a conversation with someone working on some E.D. for the NCRC last week. She told me that in the many discussions she's had with folks at NC State, they are not planning on taking ANY power away from Raleigh and handing it over to a brand new place 125 miles away. I think that says it all--Kannapolis stays periphery, Raleigh stays core (at least in terms of biotech and the UNC system).

Yes, it is hype and they are comparing themselves to RTP, but they don't say they are better then RTP, nor do they say they are a "biotech hub" which is what I was talking about earlier. Your contact working on the ED for NCRC is certainly reflecting the sentiments that I would expect at this time from the institutions in RTP looking to do some research there. It is looked at as a node to the RTP biotech hub, and that is what NCRC has promoted themselves as. They are promoting themselves as part of the NC Biotech Corridor (they do this on the same webpage you quoted from) and they recognize RTP as the center of the NC Biotech Corridor.

So if you don't think that NCRC can bring the 5,000 technology jobs, how many jobs do you think they can realistically attract?

[nowensone]

If our nation is supposed to grow by 100 million people in the next 25 years (roughly), then there are going to be new universities required as well as major expansion of the current ones, so what are the chances a project with this size and momentum could actually cause the creation of a university? Even if it begins as a branch? Yeah, when RTP was built, there were 3 already in existance, but our state will also double in pop. in the next 25 years, a large % of them in the CLT metro which by then will have swallowed Kannapolis.

[DanRNC]

So if you don't think that NCRC can bring the 5,000 technology jobs, how many jobs do you think they can realistically attract?

The PTRP, which I would compare to this project, has about 600 employees total and has struggled to find tenants even with Wake Forest/Bowman Gray/Targacept investing heavily in the project. They are also offering bargain basement lab space and still can't get leasing going. NCRC is actually offering lab space at an inflated rate ($30/sq. ft) well above PTRP's rates. I would expect no more than this at NCRC for at least 5 years or so. They will never approach that 5000 number (at least in science jobs). Most of these estimates are based on other regions (Boston, SF, RTP, etc) and have no applicability to this project. PTRP stated they would generate 30,000 jobs for their park.

[monsoon]

I will repost the above. There was a commissioned study on the potential of this place in part to justify the investment that Cabarrus and Kannapolis is making in the area. It estimates that 37,450 jobs. I don't think anyone here, unless they want to give us something other than opinion has much to counter this study.

Barring that, and the fact they basically just started building it from scratch, its way way to early to already be calling his place a failure, misses the mark, won't go anywhere because of its location, and can't compete because there are no decent schools nearby.

This is a report from the North Carolina Biotechnology Center" about the facility in Kannapolis.

It says this about the project.

"The report confirmed that the North Carolina Research Campus has the potential to be a major economic engine for the region with an estimated 37,450 jobs created by 2032. During the same time-frame, the estimated job impact in Cabarrus County is 13,616, while the estimate is 4,520 in Rowan County."

These would be the people who would really know. This report came out on Oct 19th.

[DanRNC]

I will repost the above. There was a commissioned study on the potential of this place in part to justify the investment that Cabarrus and Kannapolis is making in the area. It estimates that 37,450 jobs. I don't think anyone here, unless they want to give us something other than opinion has much to counter this study.

Barring that, and the fact they basically just started building it from scratch, its way way to early to already be calling his place a failure, misses the mark, won't go anywhere because of its location, and can't compete because there are no decent schools nearby.

Where are their models for making these estimates? Just because someone makes claims you believe them?

[BobbyRobert]

Hey, it was you who said it your comparison was superficial. I was in agreement with you on that by pointing out the possible reason that it was superficial.

Let me rephrase my original statement: How is what I wrote a

a vast misunderstanding and lack of knowledge of the Charlotte area.

What did I say that was inaccurate? Without elaboration what you wrote looks a lot like a personal attack.

I merely pointed out my opinion, that the campus faces a series of disadvantages (relative to other biotech parks) that make success less likely. I expect that people will disagree with this assessment but it would be nice to discuss it using facts rather than questioning my knowledge of Charlotte.

[BobbyRobert]

I will repost the above. There was a commissioned study on the potential of this place in part to justify the investment that Cabarrus and Kannapolis is making in the area. It estimates that 37,450 jobs. I don't think anyone here, unless they want to give us something other than opinion has much to counter this study.

hmmm. We all agree that the transportation forecasting models that CATS uses are likely underestimating ridership when the line opens next year but suddenly we are taking reports (pitched to the policy audience) which forecast job growth out to 2032 at face value without any sort of critical analysis? Its tough to forecast the future, particularly when you are pitching your study to a group of politicians who you are going to ask for money.

Barring that, and the fact they basically just started building it from scratch, its way way to early to already be calling his place a failure, misses the mark, won't go anywhere because of its location, and can't compete because there are no decent schools nearby.

I don't call it a failure, I just said it had plenty of competition and faced several obstacles. My concern is that we are glossing over many obstacles with phrases like "its in the Charlotte area" and "its just down the road from RTP."

We have lots of excellent discussions on this site about the importance of accessibility at the neighborhood scale, why are we discounting the importance of accessibility when we are discussing this project?

[uptownliving]

Where are their models for making these estimates? Just because someone makes claims you believe them?

This is the full report here:

http://www.ci.kannapolis.nc.us/downloads/N...port_102306.pdf

They are projecting 4,689 technology jobs at the NCRC by 2013.

They generate that number by equating NCRC to the Scripps Research Institute in California.